[C_Jones]

Really, remember the steps you used for success with using the built in flash. The other scenario of you using the V5 on your K-5 to fire the YN560II (off camera) with a V5 on it should have worked. The scenario of you getting your YN560II to fire while on top of a V5 that is attached to your K-5 would be good to achieve as a compatibility sign, but you said that did not work, so trying another flash in that scenario might be helpful. I can do that using my AF360FGZ, so if the YN560II is compatible as it is said to be, then it should do that. Another flash will definitely come in handy, but your V5s should be able to do all that you have mentioned you want them to do. I do all of them using my K-3II, V5s, and AF360FGZ flashes.

As I mentioned, you can post another thread specifying the K-5, V5s, and YN560 setup for some input from a possible hands on user. If the compatibility is already there, then there has to be a successful way to set it up.

---

Last edited by C_Jones; 07-22-2017 at 11:57 AM.

[voyager13]

Really, remember the steps you used for success with using the built in flash. The other scenario of you using the V5 on your K-5 to fire the YN560II (off camera) with a V5 on it should have worked. The scenario of you getting your YN560II to fire while on top of a V5 that is attached to your K-5 would be good to achieve as a compatibility sign, but you said that did not work, so trying another flash in that scenario might be helpful. I can do that using my AF360FGZ, so if the YN560II is compatible as it is said to be, then it should do that. Another flash will definitely come in handy, but your V5s should be able to do all that you have mentioned you want them to do. I do all of them using my K-3II, V5s, and AF360FGZ flashes.

I never tried the YN560II-on a V5-on the K-5 scenario, because I know that will work. But I want the flash to fire off-camera using the V5's and that's not happening to me. Here I really hope the simple problem is that I do not have one more flash. Then I know why. But on the other hand, if the V5's should be working to fire my one flash off-camera, then I am doing something wrong.
I don't understand this forum. No one else except you C_Jones has pitched in their suggestions knowing the V5's and the Yonguos have been a pretty popular topic on Pentax forums for many years.

[C_Jones]

If you did get another flash, the off camera optical trigger set up would be an option for your flashes, which you know works. The use of the V5s should also work with them, whether they are on the camera or not. As I said, the compatibility is there, but somewhere the set up is just not succeeding. Trying a new thread specific to the V5 use along with the K-5 and YN560II off camera scenario may get you some valuable information, so that may be a good step.

[voyager13]

Years ago, with K5's and Pentax 540's, I first bought these to fire the flashes off camera PT-04 . They do one thing, fire the flash. So as long as I was 1/180 or less shutter speed, the flash fired. They worked okay as long as I kept good batteries in both.

Over time, I used them to fire AB800s, Einsteins and YN560's. Ended up with a bag of them ( they're cheap) which I still occasionally use, especially in my Intermediate photography class.

I now use YN560III's ( have 4) with YN603N II's and a YN560 TX. But in my Lighting Class, I set the YN560III's to M ( turn off built in wireless receiver) add the PT-04 receiver and give one plus the PT04 Transmitter to students to use on their cameras. So far, no issues with Canon, Nikon or Sony bodies.

Thanks for the info Brooke.
Those PT-04's are tempting given the amazing low price of them. Being here in Sweden, Amazon says its gonna cost 15USD in import and postage charges. And it still seem to be worth it if they can do what my V5's cannot(unless, of course, I'm doing something wrong in my settings)

---------- Post added 07-22-17 at 09:13 PM ----------

If you did get another flash, the off camera optical trigger set up would be an option for your flashes, which you know works. The use of the V5s should also work with them, whether they are on the camera or not. As I said, the compatibility is there, but somewhere the set up is just not succeeding. Trying a new thread specific to the V5 use along with the K-5 and YN560II off camera scenario may get you some valuable information, so that may be a good step.

Yes I am starting to think on starting a new thread. Will buy a new flash anyway. Thanks once again C_Jones, you are an amazing helpful person.

[voyager13]

Sorry I can't help with the Cactus V5's, I've no experience with them. I will say that with the built-in wireless receiver in the YN560III's and the inexpensive YN560-TX Remote (Nikon version), my head shot and portrait sessions flow much smoother. I can quickly adjust power and zoom on six different channels. Even when just using 1 flash, it's easier on me and my client.

In dance studios, I use my Einstein mono light's the same way with the Buff Cyber Commander. Lets me change power quickly, especially when its up on a boom.

I've no use for P-TTL but being able to control power allows fine tuning the lighting setup without disturbing mood and posing.

Congratulations on making such lovely pictures Brooke.
I will look into buying the kind of setup you use as knowing all the control one can have while at low prices is a win-win situation.
Here in Sweden its pretty steep to buy photo equipment. It seems the Alien Bees are popular in the USA. I'll be travelling to Seattle in September and would look into buying things to bring back to Sweden. Anything you would suggest is really worth buying in the US(like those Cowboy triggers you suggested look more and more promising as I read about them on Amazon, thanking you for that) if I am starting out in portrait and wedding photography? Light modifiers, triggers, speedlights? Doesn't matter if it isn't Pentax-based, as I also own a Nikon D750.

[morenjavi]

Hello, I'm not sure If I'm late to the party.

I have a Pentax K-5 and the YN560-II, that I have been firing using radio triggers several years (PT04, RF602, RF605). I don't use it now because I changed several flashes for a nice Godox AD200, but that's another story...

About firing YN560II with the built in flash. You have really several possible combinations here, as I read that you were trying to use your built-in flash in wireless mode and also you have an old K lens.

I'm sure our dear member mcgregni can explain this better than me, but I'll do my best:

* your internal flash is a P-TTL flash, that means it will fire a first pulse to calculate how much light is really needed, then it will fire a second pulse to get a good exposure.
* when you have a non-A lens, like M, K or older lens, you don't have P-TTL, and your internal flash will fire only one pulse at full power
* you also can use your internal flash as a controller for another Pentax flash that is set on slave mode (this is the wireless mode). This way the sequence of pulses is different than if you are using the normal P-TTL mode. This mode is reserved only to control another Pentax flashes in slave mode.

Ok, now let's look at the YN560-II's optical slave modes S1 & S2:

* in S1 mode, the YN560II will fire every time it's photocell 'sees' a flash pulse
* in S2 mode, the YN560II will wait until it detects a first pulse (a normal preflash, that will ignore), and then detects the 'good' second pulse. This is the mode to use when you have a flash with P-TTL mode or similar, that fires a first pulse to measure the light, and then a second pulse.

What happens if the YN560II is on S1 mode and I'm using preflash ? The YN560II will try to fire twice; if it have enough power, you'll get the flash's light on your photo. If you put the YN560II at full power, for example, it will not work, obviously. But anyway it's a waste of power.

So now let's see the possible combinatios (I have tested it minutes ago):

=> You have an A lens or more modern lens (P-TTL is available, wireless mode is available).

If you are on normal flash mode, red-eyes or second curtain, the recommended setting is to put your YN560 on S2 mode. Will it work on S1 mode ? Yes, but the flash will fire twice. What do you get on the picture ? the light from your internal flash + the light from the YN560II. The problem here is the light from your internal flash that is evident on your photo, you could put a -2 FEC to avoid it. This is a point against using the internal flash as an optical controller, in my opinion.

If you put your internal flash on wireless mode, notice that this mode is to control another Pentax flash on slave mode. It will not work with the S2 mode, but it was a surprise for me: it works with S1 mode, the YN560II seems to fire twice quickly. If the internal flash is configured to be only a controller, then you get only the exposure from the YN560II, not bad. Can be a compromise, but I still recommend you to use a radio controller.

=> You have a M,K... old lens (P-TTL is not available).
You will notice that the wireless mode is greyed out too. In this mode you will get only one pulse at full power. The recommended setting for the YN560II is S1. But on the picture you will get a lot of light from the internal flash + the light from the YN560. I don't recommend this combination.

When I started to use external flashes years ago, I started with the internal flash and photocells. Well, it's funny for learning, for making experiments... but if you want to be serious with OCF and get good results, start with a good trigger that could fire your flash and also control the power remotelly. As Brooke pointed (very nice portrait BTW), YN560III + YN560-TX is a good option, also allows to control groups. Godox flashes and controllers are popular here too, and widely available, V850II + XT16 could be an option. Cactus V6I/II + RF60/X can be another good combination.

About your problem with the Cactus v5, I can't help, and I can't understand what can be the problem. I have fired my YN560II with the PT04, RF602 and RF605: just put my transmitter on my K5/K3II, receiver on the YN, start everything, fire, and you got the picture. I can't understand why your cactus are failing. I dont' have the cactus v5, but the v6/v6II

My experience with the PT-04 was not good, maybe the newer ones are better, but I had several problems/limitations:
* only sync up to 1/125, get banding above that speed
* misfires
* the receiver uses non standard batteries (CR-2)
I'm not sure anyway if we're referring to the same device.

As a cheap transmitter/receiver I had good experiences with the RF602, that I used for several years and got 0 misfires. But this trigger only fires a flash, can't control power, zoom, groups, etc.

Regards.

[C_Jones]

Yes I am starting to think on starting a new thread. Will buy a new flash anyway. Thanks once again C_Jones, you are an amazing helpful person.

Thank you for the polite compliment. You will enjoy having two flashes, for example you can use one for a main (key) light and the other for a fill light. You will have more versatility on how you light your subject(s). I am glad if I was of some help to you.

Have a nice weekend.

[voyager13]

Most head shots and portraits can be done with speed lights. I have an old Lowepro Nova 4 bag with:

4 YN560III flashes - assigned & labelled A,B, C and D. Stuck white letters on them so I don't need to see the LCD display
1 YN560 TX Remote
2 YN603N II Transceivers
4 Home made "black foamie things" with elastic hair bands
1 Rogue Grid - use this more and more
2 Small Rogue Flashbenders - use these mostly as snoot or flags for background light. Bought these as factory seconds, with diffusers that I haven't used
1 Set of Rogue Gels & rubber bands to attach to flash - generally forget I have these and use gels from a Rosco sample pack with gaffer tape
3 Photoflex umbrella mounts
1 Flashpont Tri Mount - Love this thing
Some other stuff like cold shoes, an old dome flash

These are great batteries - Eneloop Pros and this is a very good charger Maha. Don't skimp on these!

You have to hold your light so stands are needed. They can be light weight with speed lights so I often use the ones from my small background kit, bought used. I buy a lot of used gear.

I have another small bag with the PT-04s, A Clamps, Spring Clamps, Super Clamp, gaffers tape, small first aid kit, stuff you find is useful. Lots of this came used from US sources.

For modifiers, a pair of convertible umbrellas with diffusers covers are your best value and utility.

I've also ended up a pair of Wescott Apollo Stripboxes & Grids plus a Wescott Apollo Orb that works well two speed lights inside but also works with mono lights. All were heavily discounted last winter.

Larger 64" umbrellas & diffusers are used with mono lights in dance studios where I need lots of power and fast recycle for hours. And those require heavier light stands that I've added wheels to and secure with weight bags.

Also picked up dual flash speed ring bracket that can used with a soft box. This works out doors with a small softbox I bought used. Atop my tripod as light stand, its good in wind.

Haven't used anything but manual exposure for a long time, no idea if my camera meters work. I do occasionally use an incident meter but I'm pretty good at estimating and adjust with the instant review and histogram. When I have time, I'll set a custom white balance. Also use a flash meter if I'm in a hurry, especially for group setups where there is little tolerance for delay - but most times its an estimate and adjust.

Experience is important so you just need to go shoot and learn.

Here's an example of a setup I used for a series of headshots where I only had about 15 minutes each. I wanted to able to quickly move lights after I did a quick facial analysis. YN560IIIs and a YN 560 TX on camera.

Thanks Heaps Brooke.
That's a lot of stuff to wrap my head around, but I love every bit of what you have suggested, its like candy. I think we photographers are suckers for such peripheral equipment because we love everything to do with photography.
Once again, love your pictures including the girl portrait from your last post.

---------- Post added 07-23-17 at 05:40 AM ----------

Hello, I'm not sure If I'm late to the party.

I have a Pentax K-5 and the YN560-II, that I have been firing using radio triggers several years (PT04, RF602, RF605). I don't use it now because I changed several flashes for a nice Godox AD200, but that's another story...

About firing YN560II with the built in flash. You have really several possible combinations here, as I read that you were trying to use your built-in flash in wireless mode and also you have an old K lens.

I'm sure our dear member mcgregni can explain this better than me, but I'll do my best:

* your internal flash is a P-TTL flash, that means it will fire a first pulse to calculate how much light is really needed, then it will fire a second pulse to get a good exposure.
* when you have a non-A lens, like M, K or older lens, you don't have P-TTL, and your internal flash will fire only one pulse at full power
* you also can use your internal flash as a controller for another Pentax flash that is set on slave mode (this is the wireless mode). This way the sequence of pulses is different than if you are using the normal P-TTL mode. This mode is reserved only to control another Pentax flashes in slave mode.

Ok, now let's look at the YN560-II's optical slave modes S1 & S2:

* in S1 mode, the YN560II will fire every time it's photocell 'sees' a flash pulse
* in S2 mode, the YN560II will wait until it detects a first pulse (a normal preflash, that will ignore), and then detects the 'good' second pulse. This is the mode to use when you have a flash with P-TTL mode or similar, that fires a first pulse to measure the light, and then a second pulse.

What happens if the YN560II is on S1 mode and I'm using preflash ? The YN560II will try to fire twice; if it have enough power, you'll get the flash's light on your photo. If you put the YN560II at full power, for example, it will not work, obviously. But anyway it's a waste of power.

So now let's see the possible combinatios (I have tested it minutes ago):

=> You have an A lens or more modern lens (P-TTL is available, wireless mode is available).

If you are on normal flash mode, red-eyes or second curtain, the recommended setting is to put your YN560 on S2 mode. Will it work on S1 mode ? Yes, but the flash will fire twice. What do you get on the picture ? the light from your internal flash + the light from the YN560II. The problem here is the light from your internal flash that is evident on your photo, you could put a -2 FEC to avoid it. This is a point against using the internal flash as an optical controller, in my opinion.

If you put your internal flash on wireless mode, notice that this mode is to control another Pentax flash on slave mode. It will not work with the S2 mode, but it was a surprise for me: it works with S1 mode, the YN560II seems to fire twice quickly. If the internal flash is configured to be only a controller, then you get only the exposure from the YN560II, not bad. Can be a compromise, but I still recommend you to use a radio controller.

=> You have a M,K... old lens (P-TTL is not available).
You will notice that the wireless mode is greyed out too. In this mode you will get only one pulse at full power. The recommended setting for the YN560II is S1. But on the picture you will get a lot of light from the internal flash + the light from the YN560. I don't recommend this combination.

When I started to use external flashes years ago, I started with the internal flash and photocells. Well, it's funny for learning, for making experiments... but if you want to be serious with OCF and get good results, start with a good trigger that could fire your flash and also control the power remotelly. As Brooke pointed (very nice portrait BTW), YN560III + YN560-TX is a good option, also allows to control groups. Godox flashes and controllers are popular here too, and widely available, V850II + XT16 could be an option. Cactus V6I/II + RF60/X can be another good combination.

About your problem with the Cactus v5, I can't help, and I can't understand what can be the problem. I have fired my YN560II with the PT04, RF602 and RF605: just put my transmitter on my K5/K3II, receiver on the YN, start everything, fire, and you got the picture. I can't understand why your cactus are failing. I dont' have the cactus v5, but the v6/v6II

My experience with the PT-04 was not good, maybe the newer ones are better, but I had several problems/limitations:
* only sync up to 1/125, get banding above that speed
* misfires
* the receiver uses non standard batteries (CR-2)
I'm not sure anyway if we're referring to the same device.

As a cheap transmitter/receiver I had good experiences with the RF602, that I used for several years and got 0 misfires. But this trigger only fires a flash, can't control power, zoom, groups, etc.

Regards.

Hey thanks heaps Morenjavi,

That's a lot of useful info you have posted. Will take a while for me to understand and digest it. The Godox setup has started to take off. The Chinese know what they are doing. Will get back if I need to know something from your info. Thanks again.

---------- Post added 07-23-17 at 05:44 AM ----------

Thank you for the polite compliment. You will enjoy having two flashes, for example you can use one for a main (key) light and the other for a fill light. You will have more versatility on how you light your subject(s). I am glad if I was of some help to you.

Have a nice weekend.

Have a lovely weekend you too C_Jones.
I highly admire people like you who keep persistantly trying to help others like you did for me. A good person and Pentaxian

[mcgregni]

I'm sure our dear member mcgregni can explain this better than me, but I'll do my best: ....


Ok, now let's look at the YN560-II's optical slave modes S1 & S2:

* in S1 mode, the YN560II will fire every time it's photocell 'sees' a flash pulse
* in S2 mode, the YN560II will wait until it detects a first pulse (a normal preflash, that will ignore), and then detects the 'good' second pulse. This is the mode to use when you have a flash with P-TTL mode or similar, that fires a first pulse to measure the light, and then a second pulse.

What happens if the YN560II is on S1 mode and I'm using preflash ? The YN560II will try to fire twice; if it have enough power, you'll get the flash's light on your photo. If you put the YN560II at full power, for example, it will not work, obviously. But anyway it's a waste of power....

I think this issue has been a difficult one .... perhaps some people like me have been following it but unable to contribute much without direct experience of the equipment specifically.


Regarding the slave modes, this is indeed quite a minefield, and the responses we can expect from different SL modes on different flashes may well be variable. Your explanation is great, but I would only question the point about the flash firing twice when in its 'Fire On First Flash' (eg SL1) mode ..... here there should only be one flash, and that would occur on the first pre-flash (if responding to a P-TTL flash in P-TTL mode). Therefore there would not be two flashes in quick sequence (in any case the flash could never recycle that quickly at any power setting as the pre-flash and trigger signal are probably less than 100milliseconds apart), but rather would fire out of sync with the exposure, occurring just before the exposure.


There seemed initially to be here some confusion over the Optical vs Radio triggering techniques, and I thought the OP might even have been mixing them together? Best to isolate each technique totally and test them completely independently. However, Ultimately, I think that Brook has been persuasive and I agree that a bit of extra expenditure is probably the best course .... having triggers that can remotely control the power levels of all your flashes is a great asset.

[voyager13]

However, Ultimately, I think that Brook has been persuasive and I agree that a bit of extra expenditure is probably the best course .... having triggers that can remotely control the power levels of all your flashes is a great asset.

Thanks for the input Mcgregni. I have read(and learnt) quite a bit of using flash, especially the HSS animal from your posts on Pentax users, and had the good fortune to see well-lit photos of your beautiful little models. Good to know this flash business confuses/is unclear to even experts like you so that we upstarts can blame it on the uncertainity when we(I mean, I) make mistakes.
Yes the forementioned triggers are something I am very keen to get my hands on.

[mcgregni]

Certainly the route that utilises your existing Yongnuo flashes with a Yongnuo trigger system is likely to be the best budget way to go. In my case I am just committing more to the latest Cactus products, and have added a new V6II and RF60x to my set-up ... this will give me my first foray into Radio HSS, plus the promise of Radio P-TTL to come! But it is not really a 'budget' choice, although I think the Cactus offerings are good value overall. Good luck with your flash explorings and I am sure many of us here look forward to seeing the results sometime!

[voyager13]

Certainly the route that utilises your existing Yongnuo flashes with a Yongnuo trigger system is likely to be the best budget way to go. In my case I am just committing more to the latest Cactus products, and have added a new V6II and RF60x to my set-up ... this will give me my first foray into Radio HSS, plus the promise of Radio P-TTL to come! But it is not really a 'budget' choice, although I think the Cactus offerings are good value overall. Good luck with your flash explorings and I am sure many of us here look forward to seeing the results sometime!

In my case I am just committing more to the latest Cactus products

As you mentioned investment into Cactus products, I am thinking why would you not invest in Godox/Yongnuo products as their flashes also support HSS and TTL and would be about one-third to half the price of the flash you mentioned from Cactus. After all, I suppose Cactus is also from China just as the other two, so is the Cactus flash more feature-rich compared to the best Godox/Yongnuo flashes currently on offer? or is it due to better the triggering systems that you prefer Cactus over the other two? And then there is Neewer knocking on the door also from China. 5 years and a lot of western photo equipment companies are gonna shut down unless they would know how to tackle the China challenge and win.

[mcgregni]

I already have an original V6 plus RF60 flash, which has been very good and reliable for Manual Remote flash control plus Optical Manual HSS. So I am 'system building' really.


Adding the V6II plus RF60 gives me a 3 flash remote manual system (including a Pentax AF-540FGZ with the V6 as receiver). There is a firmware update for the RF60 coming that will add P-TTL plus related features when controlled by the V6II, and this functionality is already latent in the RF60x. Plus of course I am gaining single flash Radio Manual HSS, with P-TTL HSS coming. Once the promised 'XTTL' firmware comes out I will have a 2 flash TTL radio solution.


So I feel for the expense of the two new items (£240 British Pounds) I am extending my system and gaining new possibilities. I already enjoy using the Cactus products very much, they have been totally reliable and have done exactly what they should without any issues. Also there is great support available from experts and experienced users right here, plus the Cactus Community Forum gives direct access to the people who developed the products. The user manuals are comprehensive and well written also. So overall, for me, the Cactus solution is really the best I think.

[C_Jones]

Just one more thing in case you did not know. If you are testing around other electronic equipment, it may effect your wireless camera equipment performance. You don't have to get back to me, I just wanted to mention that.

[Class A]

It is very strange that you did not have success with the V5 and the YN 560II.

Can you set up the YN 560II again so that you can remotely trigger it by fully pressing the test button on the V5 transmitter?

This should work by simply mounting the YN 560II on the hot-shoe of a V5 unit and setting this V5 unit to Rx mode.
Then set the other V5 unit to Tx mode. Of course both V5 units should be set to the same channel, say "1".

When you fully press the test button of the V5 unit in Tx mode, its LED should light up in green, the V5 in Rx mode should respond by also lighting up its LED in green, and the YN 560II should fire. Make sure that the two V5 units are not too close to each other. Keep about 1m distance, just to be safe. The V5 unit in Rx mode must respond to half-presses and full-presses of the V5 unit in Tx mode.

If this does not work, something is odd, but then just go back to your scenario using the sync-cable.

As soon as you have a scenario in which you can fire the YN 560II by pressing the test button on the V5 unit in Tx mode then all you need to do is to mount this V5 unit on the hot shoe of the camera. Make sure your camera is in manual mode ("M" on the dial) and the shutter speed is not higher than 1/180; say chose 1/160s. Then press the shutter release button on the camera. The LED on the camera-mounted V5 unit should light up in green and the flash should fire.

There is no reason why this should not work. The V5 is such a simple trigger that the camera brand does not matter at all and the YN 560 II is such a simple flash that the trigger type does not matter.

I think you can make this work. If you want to try again, just let us know which LEDs light up green.

P.S.: It is probably best to disable any optical triggering on the YN 560II (it may not hurt to have optical triggering activated, but you want the YN 560II to respond to a trigger signal on the centre pin).