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07-23-2017, 04:11 AM - 12 Likes   #1
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SUPPLEMENT to the PENTAX FLASH GUIDE

"Supplement to the 2nd Edition of the Pentax Digital Camera Flash Lighting System "


And now I am pleased to tell you that my 'Flash Guide' has been updated again, this time with a new "Supplement" PDF.....

(Example Pages)








This Supplement contains 40 more pages of Pentax flash related material ...... Here are the key new sections :


1) New Camera Models (K1, K3ii, K70, KP) Flash Features and New Choices
2) The AF 160FC ('Circular Ringflash') & AF 201FG
3) Automatic Flash Photography Technques, AE Modes/AutoISO
4) Off-Camera Control Technologies (Optical / Wireless / Radio / TTL & Manual Systems)
5) Pentax Optical Slave Modes
6) Extension Cord (Wired Off-Camera) Operations


The new "Supplement" PDF is available for download now from this direct link .... https://www.pentaxforums.com/content/uploads/files/1/p1634/Supplement%20to%20the%202nd%20Edition%20of%20the%20Pentax%20Digital%20Camera%20Flash%20Lighting%20System%2C%20June%202017.pdf



Thanks to Adam for hosting the download and making this new material available for all forum members!

I hope this new material will prove helpful and useful for members! This Guide resource is on ongoing project, and with this update I am bringing things up to date and adding more coverage to areas that were not dealt with previously, with the aim of making this Guide resource an accurate and detailed account of working with flash and our Pentax cameras. As always I value all feedback, comment, corrections and ideas for improvements or additions! I depend on the input and enthusiasm of forum members committed to flash. There has been a great deal of flash-related discussion on this forum since the last edition was published, and I hope that much of the new content reflects the latest and most informed elements of our collective knowledge and experience.

Thanks for your continued support!
Nigel

07-23-2017, 04:37 AM   #2
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Way to go, Nigel!
07-23-2017, 08:25 AM   #3
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Thank You for your wonderful Supplement. A wealth of information.

ROB
07-23-2017, 08:31 AM   #4
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Nice work, Nigel.
Perhaps some day I'll be able to make use of it (still manual control only, over here ).

I noticed a few inaccuracies (in the parts I can comment on):

Page 30: Re. Godox flashes, for many Godox products one can put into HSS mode manually, it is not true that "Godox system radio triggers are also required". It makes a lot of sense to use them for remote power control, but HSS triggering works with multiple V6II units without the help of Godox triggers. Note also that Godox is a bit inconsistent in how they treat the HSS manual override so for some Godox flashes, stacking certain Godox triggers on a V6II (to achieve HSS) will work, for other Godox flashes (e.g., the AD200 seems picky), fewer Godox triggers will work on a V6II. I think this area is a bit of a minefield with some particular combinations working, but many others not. Hence I wouldn't suggest that there is a general solution by using the V6II as an HSS-converter. I think the sentence "Cactus V6II required in addition to Godox system triggers" should be removed or there needs to be an elaboration because you'll find that forum members had trouble to get this combination to work with the AD200. From memory, only older FT-16 triggers seemed to do the trick.

Page 30: Li-Ion flashes do not necessarily "offer more powerful output". The V850 you mention, for instance, is not anymore powerful than four-AA flashes in that power range. It even has the same overheating limitations as it has a battery with more capacity and current flow, but not a higher performance flash tube.

Page 32: You write that the V6II "is dependent on compatible P-TTL system flashes, i.e., the flash must have P-TTL.". That is not true. The flash just has to be supported by the V6II but can support Canon E-TTL, Nikon i-TTL, etc. There is definitely no P-TTL requirement for supported flashes.

Hence it is not true either that "if [flashes/strobes] are dedicated to another camera system" that it is necessary that they support manually engaging HSS. This manual HSS engagement requirement only applies to flashes that do support HSS but are not among the flashes supported by the V6II. This includes all strobes that do not provide a hot-shoe connector (which is almost all of them) and are not compatible with the flash systems the V6II supports (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus, Sigma, Pentax). So a strobe with a hot-shoe connector that supports one of these flash systems may get HSS support as the V6II also has generic system profiles, not only the ones for specific flash models. However, good luck with finding one of those.

BTW, I think it would be useful to mention the multi-brand, and as a matter of fact, cross-brand, aspect of the Cactus V6(II). With many photographers shooting more than one system these days, this could be useful information to your readers.

Godox has also been busy with respect to cross-brand support. They now started to offer a range of transmitters for brands beyond Canon and Nikon. However, there is no Pentax version in sight yet. Also, their receivers only support Canon and Nikon so far, so the multi-brand / cross-brand support is a bit limited at the moment, unless one mainly uses their flashes/strobes and has a camera system that is supported.


Last edited by Class A; 07-23-2017 at 08:46 AM.
07-23-2017, 09:15 AM   #5
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Thank you. I find your advice both concise and practical in real world situations!
07-23-2017, 09:46 AM   #6
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Thank you Nigel. Much appreciated.
07-23-2017, 02:23 PM - 1 Like   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by microlight Quote
Way to go, Nigel!
.....Thanks

---------- Post added 23-07-17 at 21:24 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by atlrob Quote
Thank You for your wonderful Supplement. A wealth of information.

ROB
You're welcome, I hope it will be useful!

---------- Post added 23-07-17 at 21:26 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Pentax Syntax Quote
Thank you. I find your advice both concise and practical in real world situations!
...that's great, I appreciate that because it's often difficult to get the theory into a practical sense, thanks

---------- Post added 23-07-17 at 21:27 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by pschlute Quote
Thank you Nigel. Much appreciated.
I'm glad you've seen it Peter !

---------- Post added 23-07-17 at 21:41 ----------

Thanks also ClassA .... I wrote the 'Automatic Flash Photography' section especially for you.

That's some good detailed feedback on the "Off-Camera Control Technologies" section, thanks! I'm sure you'll appreciate that this was the most difficult section to write .....trying to write about the overriding technical principles while striking a balance between generic and product specific examples was a tricky balancing act. As you say, a real 'minefield" .

The key ingredient to that section is the division of the communication technologies into different categories, to help conceptualise the possibilities and limitations of working with each. But when it came to specific product coverage, then inevitably I was having to draw on a wide compendium of information drawn from forum users and experiences reported, plus the often minimal information available on manufacturer websites.

This Guide resource has always been a collaboration and that can continue here. I'll look again at the passages and corrections you referred to, and I'll come back here with any questions or clarifications. Hopefully between ourselves and other users we can come to a common position and I will ensure that the next version is adapted as needed.

Now , I'm off to play with my new V6II and RF60x ....


Last edited by mcgregni; 07-23-2017 at 02:43 PM.
07-24-2017, 12:26 PM   #8
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Many thanks for this Nigel.

I am picking up flash again, not having used one since my film days, so I know this will be really helpful in understanding the changes.
07-24-2017, 05:41 PM   #9
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A very worthy supplement/essay/whatever, Nige, well done, mate, I've saved it to my hard drive.
07-25-2017, 12:33 AM - 1 Like   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Robin CB Quote
Many thanks for this Nigel.

I am picking up flash again, not having used one since my film days, so I know this will be really helpful in understanding the changes.

I hope so, and please come back here if there are any further questions

You can also get the full Guide (2nd Edition) from the link in the Signature or from the Sticky Thread at the top of this Forum.

---------- Post added 25-07-17 at 07:35 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
A very worthy supplement/essay/whatever, Nige, well done, mate, I've saved it to my hard drive.

Thanks, I hope it makes for some interesting reading, and I'd be glad of any thoughts and feedback you had. I wouldn't call it an essay .... there might be to much FUD !


07-25-2017, 04:48 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Nice work, Nigel.
Perhaps some day I'll be able to make use of it (still manual control only, over here ).

I noticed a few inaccuracies (in the parts I can comment on):

Page 30: Re. Godox flashes, for many Godox products one can put into HSS mode manually, it is not true that "Godox system radio triggers are also required". It makes a lot of sense to use them for remote power control, but HSS triggering works with multiple V6II units without the help of Godox triggers. Note also that Godox is a bit inconsistent in how they treat the HSS manual override so for some Godox flashes, stacking certain Godox triggers on a V6II (to achieve HSS) will work, for other Godox flashes (e.g., the AD200 seems picky), fewer Godox triggers will work on a V6II. I think this area is a bit of a minefield with some particular combinations working, but many others not. Hence I wouldn't suggest that there is a general solution by using the V6II as an HSS-converter. I think the sentence "Cactus V6II required in addition to Godox system triggers" should be removed or there needs to be an elaboration because you'll find that forum members had trouble to get this combination to work with the AD200. From memory, only older FT-16 triggers seemed to do the trick.

Page 30: Li-Ion flashes do not necessarily "offer more powerful output". The V850 you mention, for instance, is not anymore powerful than four-AA flashes in that power range. It even has the same overheating limitations as it has a battery with more capacity and current flow, but not a higher performance flash tube.

Page 32: You write that the V6II "is dependent on compatible P-TTL system flashes, i.e., the flash must have P-TTL.". That is not true. The flash just has to be supported by the V6II but can support Canon E-TTL, Nikon i-TTL, etc. There is definitely no P-TTL requirement for supported flashes.

Hence it is not true either that "if [flashes/strobes] are dedicated to another camera system" that it is necessary that they support manually engaging HSS. This manual HSS engagement requirement only applies to flashes that do support HSS but are not among the flashes supported by the V6II. This includes all strobes that do not provide a hot-shoe connector (which is almost all of them) and are not compatible with the flash systems the V6II supports (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus, Sigma, Pentax). So a strobe with a hot-shoe connector that supports one of these flash systems may get HSS support as the V6II also has generic system profiles, not only the ones for specific flash models. However, good luck with finding one of those.

BTW, I think it would be useful to mention the multi-brand, and as a matter of fact, cross-brand, aspect of the Cactus V6(II). With many photographers shooting more than one system these days, this could be useful information to your readers.

Godox has also been busy with respect to cross-brand support. They now started to offer a range of transmitters for brands beyond Canon and Nikon. However, there is no Pentax version in sight yet. Also, their receivers only support Canon and Nikon so far, so the multi-brand / cross-brand support is a bit limited at the moment, unless one mainly uses their flashes/strobes and has a camera system that is supported.
Isn't it better to send your corrections that as a private message? Nigel has done a great job and then you post his minor errors publicly.
07-25-2017, 06:39 AM - 2 Likes   #12
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Thanks for those supportive words Theov, and I'm glad you've seen the document

ClassA probably knows by now that I don't mind being corrected The Guide has been developed publicly to some extent on the forums and I actively sought out user and forum members input. The section in question about off-camera communication is a minefield, and I don't think there could ever he a single 'authority' or totally correct reference to every possible system and combination. The Guide will inevitably be a compendium of experiences and reports .... It's choosing the right mix and level of detail that is the difficult thing.

So I do welcome the 'corrections' and tips..... Sometimes it is as much about the context of how an explanation was written that is the key, and I will look closely at the passages and their context and see where it can he clarified . The main thing with that section for now is that it gives a single overview of the best options for Pentax shooters, and a feel for the sort of choices and compromises that will he involved.
07-25-2017, 06:53 AM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Theov39 Quote
Nigel has done a great job and then you post his minor errors publicly.
It did not occur to me for one second that providing my feedback publicly could be regarded as exposing someone's errors / be embarrassing for the author.

Nigel has indeed done an admirable job with his guides -- Ricoh should be very grateful for the immense work he put in, AFAIC -- and I just saw a bit of room for improvement in a few places. I had provided feedback to earlier versions of his first guide and Nigel thanked me for that back then, so I never expected him to react differently this time.

We've had some healthy exchanges of opinions, though.

Maybe our history of disputes will come to an end soon, as Nigel is discovering the marvels of the V6II as we speak and I may become a P-TTL convert if it will work a treat with Cactus' X-TTL implementation. I can't quite see it yet, but who knows.
07-25-2017, 07:31 AM - 1 Like   #14
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Exactly! I bet you can't wait for that XTTL update, you'll finally be able to get the exposures right first time

Look, one of the great attractions to me for the Dedicated System flash type is it's multi functional utility, although I accept that there is a much higher price to pay for that.

What Cactus are doing is in fact bringing that same multi functional utility to their radio flash system, and thereby increasing the attractiveness of the products and widening the working scenarios that photographers can see themselves using the system for. It is still not a really budget offering but people will see good value and choose accordingly, especially considering that it is free firmware that is adding the extra features.

Unfortunately the XTTL could not make this update to the Flash Guide as it was only announced, not yet available. But by the time of the next update it will be out there and well tested. Plus hopefully we'll have more developments from Godox, Yongnuo, Acon etc to consider as well ......
07-26-2017, 12:29 AM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
I bet you can't wait for that XTTL update, you'll finally be able to get the exposures right first time.
Looking forward to never having to use exposure compensation.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Look, one of the great attractions to me for the Dedicated System flash type is it's multi functional utility,
What do you mean by "multi functional"?
That there is HSS, second-curtain sync, and automatic metering?

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Plus hopefully we'll have more developments from Godox, Yongnuo, Acon etc to consider as well ...
Yes, would be good to have more options. I think Cactus make the best triggers by far, but they only offer the RF60x as a light source with a built-in trigger. It is possible to get a Canon-dedicated Godox flash like the AD360II-C and use it with a V6II receiver, but having to buy a brand-dedicated flash and an extra receiver drives up the cost. If only Cactus could start offering further lighting options similar to the Godox AD200 or AD360.

I'd be surprised to see Yongnuo starting to offer Pentax-dedicated gear; never heard any rumours to that effect. I wouldn't be keen on it anyhow. Godox is a more interesting proposition and they at least had a Pentax version of one of their Flashpoint-branded triggers on Adorama for a while until it got pulled. Possibly they were trying to gauge interest and there was too little. They haven't announced anything with respect to Pentax in their recent cross-brand wave of releases, but there is always hope.
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