[hatsofe]

I recently fulfilled my dream and bought an external flash with HSS capability, Bolt VS-570P. While all the flash modes modes work fine if the camera equipped with full aperture control lenses (DA, A-lenses including Tamron Adaptall with contacts), the flash becomes useless when I install an old glass with manual diaphragm. In that case camera locks the shutter speed on maximum 1/180 or less (regardless of the shooting mode chosen) and flash doesn't want to fire a single shot.
What can be done about it and is there any way around?
Thanks:
confused:

[Not a Number]

If I'm not mistaken P-TTL will only work with lenses in the "A" mode. You probably have to set the camera to "M" or "X" mode and the flash in manual mode. You would have to calculate the F-stop to use from the flash to subject distance, ISO and Guide Number for the flash at given zoom and power setting. Unless the flash has a calculator for this.

What manual aperture lenses are you using?

Have you checked for a firmware update for the flash?

[rgknief60]

I can verify that the issue is not with ability of the K-5IIs as manufactured. I just tested with my Metz 52 AF-1. It will fire in any mode, but at full power washing everything out. I had to go to manual mode on the flash to get anything usable. 1/180, ISO 80, 100mm, f4 (M42 100mm Takumar) on K5IIs.


M42 + Flash + K5IIs Test

[mcgregni]

Yes, P-TTL is only fully compatible with autofocus lenses. Many people have reported they are happy with the results also when using A - type aperture coupled lenses. For K or M type manual focus lenses then I recommend M camera mode and M flash mode. As well as the traditional methods of calculating flash exposure outlined by Not A Number above, you can also use the histogram to assess and fine tune things.

[hatsofe]

If I'm not mistaken P-TTL will only work with lenses in the "A" mode. You probably have to set the camera to "M" or "X" mode and the flash in manual mode. You would have to calculate the F-stop to use from the flash to subject distance, ISO and Guide Number for the flash at given zoom and power setting. Unless the flash has a calculator for this.

What manual aperture lenses are you using?

Have you checked for a firmware update for the flash?

I tried this flash on camera with Tamron 17-50 (A016) ,just after I received it from B&H. Flash work fine in every mode including HSS, for Wich I actually bought it. Then few months later I mounted it on camera with old 500mm .The lens has PK adapter. Flash cycles through all the modes but doesn't fire.It also keeps the camera shatter going to max speed of 1/180 or less. I was in middle of shooting, but bothered to download K5iis manual to my phone. Found nothing that would mention anything like that. Then I experimented and removed the lens completely just to find out that it made no difference. Without an objective attached to the camera that external flash doesn't fire. Later on back home I've attached Tamron 17-50 again and flash came back to life.Same was with Tamron Adaptall +PKA mount. It seems that without aperture info K5iis +Bolt VS-570p don't want to know each other.

[stevebrot]

I recently fulfilled my dream and bought an external flash with HSS capability, Bolt VS-570P. While all the flash modes modes work fine if the camera equipped with full aperture control lenses (DA, A-lenses including Tamron Adaptall with contacts), the flash becomes useless when I install an old glass with manual diaphragm. In that case camera locks the shutter speed on maximum 1/180 or less (regardless of the shooting mode chosen) and flash doesn't want to fire a single shot.
What can be done about it and is there any way around?
Thanks:
confused:

This behavior sounds correct. HSS is a flash feature (set on flash), but is dependent on P-TTL. As such it will only work when the body is controlling the aperture. In simple terms, the flash needs to know the aperture, the shutter speed, and the pre-flash metering in order to calculate the HSS pulses. The K-5IIs manual clearly indicates that P-TTL is not supported with aperture ring lenses, but does not call out sub-features such as remote control and HSS. A footnote should have been included.

There is no work around using the HSS feature of your flash.

There may be alternatives using various 3rd party HSS implementations, but any such would require tricking the K-5IIs into firing the X-sync at higher speeds...not an easy task if a non-A-contact lens is mounted.


Steve

[hatsofe]

Yes, P-TTL is only fully compatible with autofocus lenses. Many people have reported they are happy with the results also when using A - type aperture coupled lenses. For K or M type manual focus lenses then I recommend M camera mode and M flash mode. As well as the traditional methods of calculating flash exposure outlined by Not A Number above, you can also use the histogram to assess and fine tune things.

I normally use the camera in M mode only. By the way, when I followed the K5iis manual and cycled through camera modes, the camera froze in "Aperture priority" regardless of the mode dial position, with max shutter speed 1/180 or less. So it did go to Manual flash automatically as well... Then I switched the flash power off and the camera immediately returned to normal, responding to the mode dial accordingly.

---------- Post added 11-04-17 at 08:13 PM ----------

This behavior sounds correct. HSS is a flash feature (set on flash), but is dependent on P-TTL. As such it will only work when the body is controlling the aperture. In simple terms, the flash needs to know the aperture, the shutter speed, and the pre-flash metering in order to calculate the HSS pulses. The K-5IIs manual clearly indicates that P-TTL is not supported with aperture ring lenses, but does not call out sub-features such as remote control and HSS. A footnote should have been included.

There is no work around using the HSS feature of your flash.

There may be alternatives using various 3rd party HSS implementations, but any such would require tricking the K-5IIs into firing the X-sync at higher speeds...not an easy task if a non-A-contact lens is mounted.


Steve

Thanks, Steve. So , I'm hopeless.
Will it go to HSS if arranged as a wireless slave , or triggered by internal camera flash (which cannot be HSS as I know) ?

[stevebrot]

Will it go to HSS if arranged as a wireless slave , or triggered by internal camera flash (which cannot be HSS as I know) ?

The question of HSS with legacy glass comes up fairly frequently on this site as does HSS and P-TTL pass-through with radio triggers. With any luck someone who uses HSS a lot will chime in here. There are 3rd-party options, but I am not up on the current status. A search for "hss" on this sub-forum will provide a list of threads that might be helpful. @mcgregni @Class_A ???


Steve

[hatsofe]

The question of HSS with legacy glass comes up fairly frequently on this site as does HSS and P-TTL pass-through with radio triggers. With any luck someone who uses HSS a lot will chime in here. There are 3rd-party options, but I am not up on the current status. A search for "hss" on this sub-forum will provide a list of threads that might be helpful. @mcgregni @Class_A ???


Steve

Thanks. I'll check it out.

[stevebrot]

the flash becomes useless when I install an old glass with manual diaphragm. In that case camera locks the shutter speed on maximum 1/180 or less (regardless of the shooting mode chosen) and flash doesn't want to fire a single shot.

I just re-read this and wanted to clarify that my previous comment was in regard to HSS. With lenses other than those that work with P-TTL, the behavior would be expected to follow that of the built-in flash. Generally that means M* or X mode on the camera and M mode on the flash with HSS off. If your flash will not fire when the LCD displays F--- rather than an aperture number, even with the flash in M mode (HSS off)*, you may have a defective unit and may want to ask for a replacement.


Steve

* If a Pentax-dedicated flash is detected, the shutter speed will automatically be limited to 1/180s or lower. With generic speedlights and other non-dedicated flash, the sync will not fire at speeds above 1/180s in any mode.

[mcgregni]

I don't think it is possible to go beyond the max sync limit with a non coupled (eg K or M type) lens and a flash activated. The V6II will not allow this either. So it appears to be a general limitation of the system. Third party triggers also depend on the P-TTL comunications to enable HSS mode, so there's no alternative I'm afraid other than choosing an A type Manual or newer Autofocus lens.

[hatsofe]

I just re-read this and wanted to clarify that my previous comment was in regard to HSS. With lenses other than those that work with P-TTL, the behavior would be expected to follow that of the built-in flash. Generally that means M* or X mode on the camera and M mode on the flash with HSS off. If your flash will not fire when the LCD displays F--- rather than an aperture number, even with the flash in M mode (HSS off)*, you may have a defective unit and may want to ask for a replacement.


Steve

* If a Pentax-dedicated flash is detected, the shutter speed will automatically be limited to 1/180s or lower. With generic speedlights and other non-dedicated flash, the sync will not fire at speeds above 1/180s in any mode.

Steve, it didn't fire in any mode at all when manual lens was attached and shatter speed was limited to 1/180s. But it worked fine with A-lenses. Maybe I should contact B&H? Bolt is manufactured by Chinese and I'm not sure that I'm going to get a comprehensive answer from them.
Other then that, a flash that cannot match shatter speed higher then 1/180s is of no use to me. I was planning to use the flash as a fill light, to balance the contrast. It also brightens up tiny details which is very helpful while shooting wild life from a distance. I use K5iis internal flash for that purpose, but it's weak and that 1/180s speed limit doesn't allow much of play.

---------- Post added 11-05-17 at 06:36 AM ----------

I don't think it is possible to go beyond the max sync limit with a non coupled (eg K or M type) lens and a flash activated. The V6II will not allow this either. So it appears to be a general limitation of the system. Third party triggers also depend on the P-TTL comunications to enable HSS mode, so there's no alternative I'm afraid other than choosing an A type Manual or newer Autofocus lens.

Thanks. I see. This is a real disappointment.
I read you articles and downloaded them a year ago. Very good stuff. But that field ( like many others) requires some initial experience; otherwise many nuances go unnoticed. Besides, there is a terminology in there that takes time to understand.
My last experience with external flash was 40 years ago. The flash shatter speed on my camera was limited to 1/30 s...

[mcgregni]

I will certainly look at highlighting this point in the Guide more clearly. Inevitably some things will have to be implied by others, eg that HSS is a subset of the P-TTL mode and P-TTL needs the aperture coupled lens types.

The Guide has grown over time with the accumulation of experience of many people, mainly from these very forum pages here. I made a comment in the Guide that HSS exposures may be quite successful with A, M and K types ..... I was automatically linking all of these lens types into the "manual focus" category, and my own testing was with an A type. It came to light later that the shutter speed could not go beyond max sync with the older lens types, and I tested it with the V6II as well ..... Even though this is a manual mode system for now, the V6II acts like a P-TTL flash on the hotshoe, so the same restrictions apply.

I'll correct and clarify the point in the next guide update, and thanks for bringing it up again and highlighting it....

Can you not use an autofocus lens? If not, then could you just stop down a bit more or use a lower ISO to keep the speed at max sync? Or are you concerned about camera shake?

[hatsofe]

I don't use an auto focus even when it's available. My interest is mostly wild life and these creatures move fast. My average shatter speed is 1/640. I'd love to have A-lenses with 400-600mm focal length but I needed a mortgage to buy them. Third party manufacturers almost don't make anything for Pentax brand, surely not a super tell photo.
I think of trying to modify the lens mount, so it will provide one single aperture value for the camera, let's say f8. I looked into Tamron Adaptall 2 mount and it seems that the camera reads a resistance value in reference to each aperture stop.Just a simple analog signal.

[stevebrot]

Steve, it didn't fire in any mode at all when manual lens was attached and shatter speed was limited to 1/180s.

Will the built-in flash work with the same lens or with no lens mounted? If so, talk to B&H.

Other then that, a flash that cannot match shatter speed higher then 1/180s is of no use to me.

What are you attempting to do? The common use case for HSS is outdoor portraiture in bright light where "ghosting" is the concern and the photographer desires flash for key or fill. The other common use case is for action sports in bright light and moderate distance where supplemental light is desired using shutter speed to freeze the motion.

I don't use an auto focus even when it's available. My interest is mostly wild life and these creatures move fast. My average shatter speed is 1/640. I'd love to have A-lenses with 400-600mm focal length but I needed a mortgage to buy them. Third party manufacturers almost don't make anything for Pentax brand, surely not a super tell photo.
I think of trying to modify the lens mount, so it will provide one single aperture value for the camera, let's say f8. I looked into Tamron Adaptall 2 mount and it seems that the camera reads a resistance value in reference to each aperture stop.Just a simple analog signal.

?????

Are you saying that you want HSS for fast moving wildlife? If so, are you aware that HSS delivers a significant performance hit that may severely limit flash range and that HSS flash will not stop motion?

As for modifying mounts...The "A" contacts communicate maximum aperture and aperture range only and that by means of a boolean (bitwise) pattern. Resistance is not part of the equation. For more information...

Features and Operation of the KA Mount | The K-Mount Page

Even if one were to successfully hack the mount (it has been tried by users on this site), the aperture actuator lever movement must be linear to the iris opening, something that is not generally present.

Translation? If one must have the functionality offered by the KA mount on a Pentax dSLR, one must mount KA and newer lenses. There is no hack.


Steve