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11-21-2017, 08:18 AM   #1
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Pentax flash on Nikon body?

Is this safe? Is this dangerous? I am wondering if I can use a Pentax flash on a Nikon body in manual mode without frying either the flash or (more importantly) the camera body?

I have a Metz 50 AF-1, Pentax AF360, and a Pentax AF540 from which to pick.

I also ordered a dedicated Nikon flash (Flashpoint R2) but Adorama are dragging their heels on processing the order (24 hours since I placed it, and still 'In Process') so it doesn't look like it will get here by tomorrow.. which was admittedly slim possibility in the first place.

Anyways.. I otherwise don't have any Nikon flashes to use with my Nikon body.. and may go flashless for thanksgiving photos.. but still wondering if one of my Pentax flashes will function in a pinch without harming anything. Thoughts?

11-21-2017, 09:12 AM   #2
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You would be running full-manual on everything, I think. Unless by AF360 and AF540, you mean you have the early version with thyristor control. Then you would be absolutely set.

I can't advise on safety or trigger voltages, though; do you have one of those safety mounts that slots into the hotshoe and keeps the camera safe?
11-21-2017, 09:30 AM   #3
mee
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QuoteOriginally posted by pathdoc Quote
You would be running full-manual on everything, I think. Unless by AF360 and AF540, you mean you have the early version with thyristor control. Then you would be absolutely set.

I can't advise on safety or trigger voltages, though; do you have one of those safety mounts that slots into the hotshoe and keeps the camera safe?


Nope I have nothing quite that old.. these are the first 'digital' versions of these flashes.


I'm not sure what you mean by a safety mount for the hotshoe though. So I obviously don't have one of those haha




I'm OK with setting a manual flash value if I have to so long as the hardware doesn't get damaged with this combination.
11-21-2017, 09:35 AM - 1 Like   #4
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All pentax digital era flashes should be fine. Old analog flashes can be scary with very high trigger voltages that can fry digital cameras. Because of this some devices exist to protect the cameras by reducing the voltage to safe levels.

11-21-2017, 09:36 AM   #5
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Check your manuals - I was sure the 540FGZ still had a thyristor or other self-regulator on board.

Safety mount: Wein Safe-Sync Hot Shoe to Hot Shoe with PC 990-560 B&H Photo
11-21-2017, 10:37 AM   #6
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OK follow up questions.. how would I use a voltmeter to test voltage of the flash? I mean what would I touch the hot and ground clips to from the voltmeter onto the flash shoe pins?
11-21-2017, 11:31 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by mee Quote
OK follow up questions.. how would I use a voltmeter to test voltage of the flash? I mean what would I touch the hot and ground clips to from the voltmeter onto the flash shoe pins?
Oscilloscope is best.

11-21-2017, 12:45 PM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Oscilloscope is best.
?????????

To measure the trigger voltage of a flash unit, allow it to charge up off the camera. You then touch the positive (not "hot" please) lead of the voltmeter to the central contact of the flash unit's shoe, and the negative (sometimes called "ground" but it is not really ground) lead of the voltmeter to the contact spring that is in the side of the shoe. The latter is a bit hidden and can be difficult to reach, and on the camera it presses against the side of the camera hot shoe receptacle.

You should not see more than about 9 volts to be safe for a modern camera. Some older flash units had over 100 or even 200 volts - crazy. Also, the centre contact must be the positive one, although it is rare for it not to be. This web page should answer many questions : -

Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages

What I cannot advise on is the other off-centre contacts on the Nikon camera, whether they are compatible with a Pentax flash unit (perhaps others here can). These auxiliary contacts do things like tell the camera when the flash is ready, and quench the flash when enough light is received TTL. Quite likely Nikon do it differently from Pentax. One way to avoid that is to use an intermediate adaptor (it should be quite cheap) that only passes the centre and edge connections through and makes no contact with the auxiliary contacts. The flash unit will then only be working in self-auto and/or manual mode.

Last edited by Lord Lucan; 11-21-2017 at 01:03 PM.
11-21-2017, 01:51 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
?????????
When I have seen anyone doing extensive flash measurement they used Oscilloscope since the spike can be quite quick and not fully register on a DMM or analog meter. So if you want a true peak you use a digital recording scope and measure the actual peak not an averaged value.

But your other points are spot on. I don't think any modern digital flash will give any other modern digital problems with trigger voltages - the auxiliary pins and how they interact? No clue.

---------- Post added 11-21-17 at 04:06 PM ----------

Since no one can say for certain that they have tried this I would suggest you get some yongnuo 603n II triggers:

RF-603 II as a safe sync - PentaxForums.com

The tests done in the thread above showed that even with 200-300v trigger voltages the triggers only sent 3v to the camera.
11-21-2017, 02:06 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
?????????

To measure the trigger voltage of a flash unit, allow it to charge up off the camera. You then touch the positive (not "hot" please) lead of the voltmeter to the central contact of the flash unit's shoe, and the negative (sometimes called "ground" but it is not really ground) lead of the voltmeter to the contact spring that is in the side of the shoe. The latter is a bit hidden and can be difficult to reach, and on the camera it presses against the side of the camera hot shoe receptacle.

You should not see more than about 9 volts to be safe for a modern camera. Some older flash units had over 100 or even 200 volts - crazy. Also, the centre contact must be the positive one, although it is rare for it not to be. This web page should answer many questions : -

Photo Strobe Trigger Voltages

What I cannot advise on is the other off-centre contacts on the Nikon camera, whether they are compatible with a Pentax flash unit (perhaps others here can). These auxiliary contacts do things like tell the camera when the flash is ready, and quench the flash when enough light is received TTL. Quite likely Nikon do it differently from Pentax. One way to avoid that is to use an intermediate adaptor (it should be quite cheap) that only passes the centre and edge connections through and makes no contact with the auxiliary contacts. The flash unit will then only be working in self-auto and/or manual mode.


Thank you for this!!! Yes IF the voltage checks out, I was planning on just using electrical or even gaffers tape to shield the other pins. There is literally no time to get new parts to my door before thanksgiving.


If worse comes to worse I just go flashless and crank up the ISO. Or rig some kind of diffuser for the popup. But I'd rather not..
11-21-2017, 04:29 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
.... RF-603 II as a safe sync - PentaxForums.com

The tests done in the thread above showed that even with 200-300v trigger voltages the triggers only sent 3v to the camera.
I am not sure what is going on in that thread. They said ".... my older auto-thyristor flashes had trigger voltages in the mid-200s. I .... thought I'd meter their output with my old flashes mounted to the radio trigger. I get 3 volts ...".

Mid-200 volts or 3 volts? Sounds like they might have been using a cheap analog voltmeter. Thyristor flash unit trigger circuits can have very high impedances; so attaching a cheap voltmeter (which will draw a not insignificant current) will pull the voltage down compared with what the camera will see. The measurement needs to be made with a digital voltmeter (or a very expensive analog one, or an oscilliscope as you say) which will have an even higher impedance to see the true value.

Basically, the flash unit when charged places a voltage on its centre pin. When the camera shutter is pressed it shorts this pin to the ground of the flash unit (the side contact). In older cameras this shorting was done with simple contacts like a tiny switch and they could handle almost any voltage. With modern cameras however the shorting is done with electronics which can only handle low voltages.
11-21-2017, 04:38 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Lord Lucan Quote
I am not sure what is going on in that thread. They said ".... my older auto-thyristor flashes had trigger voltages in the mid-200s. I .... thought I'd meter their output with my old flashes mounted to the radio trigger. I get 3 volts ...".

Mid-200 volts or 3 volts? Sounds like they might have been using a cheap analog voltmeter. Thyristor flash unit trigger circuits can have very high impedances; so attaching a cheap voltmeter (which will draw a not insignificant current) will pull the voltage down compared with what the camera will see. The measurement needs to be made with a digital voltmeter (or a very expensive analog one, or an oscilliscope as you say) which will have an even higher impedance to see the true value.

Basically, the flash unit when charged places a voltage on its centre pin. When the camera shutter is pressed it shorts this pin to the ground of the flash unit (the side contact). In older cameras this shorting was done with simple contacts like a tiny switch and they could handle almost any voltage. With modern cameras however the shorting is done with electronics which can only handle low voltages.
You make a good point - I don't know if it is safe but I know others who use them that way - some cameras are more tolerant (Pentax by rumor is one) even in the digital age. I personally would want to test it more carefully.
12-24-2017, 04:10 PM   #13
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I have some experience.... been using both of my fgz540 on nikons d3, d700 and d800 but.... on 'nikon camera it worked only in auto mode, not very useful as fgz 540 couldn't fire as low as I usually needed'- auto mode of fgz540 does't allow to go down below more or less half the power of the fgz540, why not use manual mode? Simply those flashgun didn't work when attached to hot shoe of the nikon camera in manual mode just didn't fire at all, had to use wireless triggers (cactus v4) to trigger afgz 540 in manual mode...., hence i got rid of the afgz540 and bought nissin flashes for nikon that works perfectly on both pentax and nikon bodies in manual and auto mode, it wasn't any problem until k1 arrived - pttl flash problems from my k5 was gone and i can use on k1 any dedicated flashgun in pttl mode but i don't have pentax flash guns anymore.. life sucks
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