[Roadboat24]

I recently had an email conversation with Cactus (Harvest One Limited) about a problem I have with the V6II trigger with the Pen. A.001 firmware not working with the V6 and V5 triggers.

My Question ended up as "Will there ever be a firmware upgrade to the V6 to become compatible with the V6II ..?"

Their response.
"Negative. Simply put, the V6 will no longer be compatible with the V6 II with X-TTL firmware because they run on different wireless protocols. More importantly the hardware on the V6 is unable to cope with the higher demand of the X-TTL firmware, thus an upgrade on hardware (V6 II) was necessary when Multi-brand HSS firmware was released. So it was a stretch when we forced the V6 to be backward compatible with the new V6 II. The V6 is analogue and the V6 II is digital (HSS / TTL). Now with TTL and cross-brand TTL in the picture, the line is drawn much more clearer, separating the levels of product within our range."


I assume this applies to the V5 as well. Although I still have a use for the V5 triggers, this makes my V6 triggers pretty much unusable in my setup. I still use the V6II triggers and I think they work quite well. But, for those looking at radio triggers, this is something you'll want to know up front.

[amoringello]

Wow, I have two V6 triggers that I have not used in a while. It will suck if I cannot use the two flashes separately on different cameras at events now. (I only have one V6ii trigger) :-(

[pschlute]

Can you not still combine their use by not updating to the latest firmware for the V6II ?

[mcgregni]

Peter that's right, there's a choice now .... If you want X-TTL functions then you need V6II transceivers with units attached to P-TTL type flashes. If you only need manual mode plus manual HSS then you can use the "multi-brand" firmware and include V6 units as receivers. Flashes on the V6 receivers will not do HSS, only working up to the max sync speed.

Using Cactus RF60/x flashes removes the need to receiver units and allows both X-TTL functions plus manual and HSS. This setup is the most flexible as all of these functions are available via the X-TTL firmware on a V6II transmitter.

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Last edited by mcgregni; 01-15-2018 at 09:01 AM.

[Roob-N-Boots]

Thank you @Roadboat24! I have 3 RF60 and 2 V6. I was hoping to add 2 more flashes and I was debating between RF60 and RF60x. Makes my choice a lot clearer. Not to mention the several V5s that I own would be totally useless.

[Class A]

I assume this applies to the V5 as well.

I'm not sure how you arrive at that conclusion.

As a matter of fact, I think you are misinterpreting the response by Cactus.

The V5 is compatible with the V6 and the V6II and will always be, as far as I know.
As the V5 only supports triggering (no remote power control), this functionality should always be supported.

The specialised X-TTL firmware variant forgos some backward compatibility, but if you just stick to the multi-brand firmware -- which, to the best of my knowledge, is not being phased out but will continue to exist as a parallel branch -- then your V6II will remain compatible with the V6 and V5 (to the extent the latter can support the V6II's functionality).

So I don't see how Cactus can be perceived to break compatibility. Remember that the new X-TTL variant is optional and is offered free of charge. You can completely ignore it, if it interferes with what you have been doing with the V6II/V6/V5.

[Roadboat24]

In my experience, The V6II with the X-TTL variant (PEN.A.001) would not trigger the V5 or V6. As you say, multi-brand Cactus V6II firmware (I believe its V1.1.013 ) would, But as Mcgreni stated you lose some V6II functions. So if you only want manual it will work, I my case I prefer the X-TTl Variant. That's me, Others may chose differently. The V6II with the V1.1.013 variant would not fire the RF60X with the most recent firmware (A03 as I remember), I think It also needed the older firmware to function ( I did not test this), which I think loses some functionality. So as Mcgreni said, you make you choice. That's the way I choose. I only ever used the V5 as a remote camera trigger. My V5 and V6 triggers still work together, And there is a work around in any case. If I stack a V6 on the TX V6II I get the other V6 and V5 triggers back in the loop, in manual. For me, that's a little messy but it works. I'm OK with it.
I had thought (Incorrectly) the V6 firmware would bring the V6 trigger comparability up-to the V6II. My mistake.

My whole point was, that if you are looking at Cactus radio triggers, it's nice to know up front, what choices you'll need to make.
I really like the Cactus triggers and Flash units. I'm not bashing them in any way. I find they work very well. I'm very happy with them.

Just figure out how you want your setup to function and chose accordingly.

[Class A]

The V6II with the X-TTL variant (PEN.A.001) would not trigger the V5 or V6.

Yes, I get the same result.

As you say, multi-brand Cactus V6II firmware (I believe its V1.1.013 ) would, But as Mcgreni stated you lose some V6II functions.

One could say "lose", one could alternatively say "stops one from winning additional functionality that the V6II did not offer when it was introduced".

The point I'm trying to make is that there is a difference between inconsiderately breaking backward compatibility and not including older protocols in a brand new and separate branch of firmware variants.

If V6II firmwares had kept supporting the original V6II (multi-brand) functionality (with some refinements and additions) and had at one point simply dropped backward compatibility to the V5 and V6 then I think a word of caution would be in order. Personally, I'd say such a decision would be bad in terms of customer support and would demonstrate bad business sense.

The situation is different though, as the firmware variant in question is rather different in nature. It does not support cross-brand HSS anymore, but solely focuses on P-TTL and making some P-TTL functionality available. Apparently, the technical challenges involved made it impossible to still maintain backward compatibility to the V5/V6. I'd say it is a difficult choice as to when no longer supporting backward compatibility is appropriate. On the one hand, backward compatibility is very desirable. On the other hand, one does not want backward-compatibility to stifle future developments. In other words, personally, I'd say it is better to have the option of using the V6II as P-TTL triggers compared to not having been given that opportunity due to the fact that couldn't be realised while maintaining backward-compability.

Long story short, I think if Cactus hadn't made the X-TTL functionality available as a free firmware upgrade but had instead bundled it with a new hardware product (V7, or whatever) then people probably wouldn't take issue with the fact that products like the V5/V6 are no longer supported by the new products. At some point in time, it is no longer feasible to maintain backward compatibility. So all I'm saying is that one shouldn't hold it against Cactus that they didn't charge for new hardware when they made the X-TTL variant available.

To be clear, I'm not saying you are unduly criticising Cactus. I just wanted to express that I personally feel that the current situation -- while not being ideal -- is quite defensible.

The V6II with the V1.1.013 variant would not fire the RF60X with the most recent firmware (A03 as I remember), I think It also needed the older firmware to function ( I did not test this), which I think loses some functionality.

Yes, unfortunately, the multi-brand vs X-TTL firmwares do not mix and match. You'd have to run a multi-brand variant on the RF60X as well. Again, you wouldn't "lose" functionality doing that, you just wouldn't be able to upgrade your RF60X to a P-TTL flash while at the same time maintaining full backward-compatibility.

FWIW, during the V6II X-TTL firmware beta testing, I suggested that any RF60X firmware should be made compatible with any other V6II firmware variant, because I don't think it is practical to keep re-flashing your firmware versions all the time. As it is, one is pretty much forced to make a decision for either multi-brand or X-TTL and then stick with that, but apparently Cactus found no easy way to implement my suggestion.

I had thought (Incorrectly) the V6 firmware would bring the V6 trigger comparability up-to the V6II. My mistake.

Well, the V6 and V6II are compatibility, as long as one sticks to the multi-brand firmware variant.
The V6 cannot support HSS due to hardware limitations, but it does support PowerSync in combination with a V6II.

Potentially, some barriers could be removed in the future. It is for instance conceivable that the V6 may receive a firmware that makes it compatible even to the X-TTL firmware variants, but I wouldn't count on that. My expectation is that the multi-brand and X-TTL universes will be kept separate and that only the multi-brand versions will keep backward compatibility to the V5/V6.

[mcgregni]

It is good to lay out these choices and ensure there is prior awareness, so that people are not disappointed. There's no avoiding the complexities now in terms of understanding the various Cactus model/features/modes combinations. We're right also to highlight that so much has recently been gifted to Cactus V6II users for free. Sure, the X-TTL update will encourage more sales of both V6II and RF60/x units, but it could so easily have been marketed into a new product offer at a premium price.

On balance the pros outweigh the negatives, for me at least. This probably has to be seen from each individuals perspective now .....here's mine: If I want to use Radio P-TTL and/or HSS with 2 flashes, then I use the X-TTL firmware and the 2 RF60/x flashes. I can't use a third flash because the V6 won't work ....

If I want 3 flashes then I must use the multi-brand firmware and Radio Manual mode, although I would still have Manual HSS on the two RF60/x's .......

So, actually those options are still going to cover almost every practical shooting scenario for me, with the minor hassle of having to switch the firmware around. But considering there was no expense it's not something I could complain about.

If I wanted a 3 light Radio P-TTL/ HSS set-up / 4 light manual set-up, then I will just have to buy another (3rd) RF60x.

Overall, the recent free upgrade from Cactus has expanded my Radio triggering capabilities and options hugely. Let's hear from others now, to see how it has changed things for them, and perhaps suggest how to best capatilise on the new possibilities .......

[mcgregni]

Cactus V6II & RF60/x 'X-TTL' User Review :


I have added a new Review in the 'Third Party Flashes' section ....this is for the new 'X-TTL' firmware with the Cactus V6II and RF60/x flashes. Please click through to see the Review .... Cactus V6II & RF60/x 'X-TTL' reviews - Pentax Camera Accessory Review Database

[Mikesul]

Thanks, Nigel. This is a well timed and useful guide to the Cactus vII.