[awscreo]

So I have a prom shoot coming up. The party part should be fairly easy to do with just on camera flash and a simple modifier I'd guess, mostly trying to figure out posing part. I'd need to setup a place outside for students to come and take photos, and also a place at the entrance to the hall where I'd take pics of students going in as couples. So, I have a 540 fgz, a 360 fgz on the way, an older Sigma flash, and a set of normal cheapo triggers. Do I need to get something like cactus v6 II, or acon triggers, or I can maybe use 360 fgz as a trigger for my other two flashes? And maybe use my cheapo triggers indoors at the entrance, since there isn't too much light there.

[Sliver-Surfer]

So I have a prom shoot coming up. The party part should be fairly easy to do with just on camera flash and a simple modifier I'd guess, mostly trying to figure out posing part. I'd need to setup a place outside for students to come and take photos, and also a place at the entrance to the hall where I'd take pics of students going in as couples. So, I have a 540 fgz, a 360 fgz on the way, an older Sigma flash, and a set of normal cheapo triggers. Do I need to get something like cactus v6 II, or acon triggers, or I can maybe use 360 fgz as a trigger for my other two flashes? And maybe use my cheapo triggers indoors at the entrance, since there isn't too much light there.

Cactus V6 triggers are very handy. Cheapos can't wake up a flash once it falls asleep and they cheapos can interfere with sound system making buzzing noise

[Class A]

Cheapo triggers should do the job, except that they won't give you an HSS option. HSS can be very useful when the ambient light is not low and you still want to achieve a shallow DOF look using flash.

[mcgregni]

It sounds like you will be working at fairly close distances, so as long as the control flash on the camera has line of sight to the slaves, then P-TTL optical wireless should be ok for your HSS needs. Is the Sigma model HSS capable also? If so just place things so that the sensors on both slaves can "see" the control flash, and it should work well up to around 5-6 metres.

Considering the flashes you have/are getting then this is the easiest and most economical option. You would need 3 V6II units, quite an expense, to go that Radio route, plus the added complexities of learning and setting up the system, and extra battery management. Unless the distance or angles and line of sight problems are significant, then I'd just get practising with P-TTL optical triggering and become fluent in setting up and achieving your desired flash exposures quickly.

I Recommend M camera mode with a fixed ISO of 100 or 200 for HSS working. Fix your aperture also as needed and use shutter "speed" to control the ambient brightness. The flash exposures are controlled with flash compensation settings on each flash plus a global adjustmemt from the camera FC control.

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Last edited by mcgregni; 04-07-2018 at 06:10 AM.

[awscreo]

Cheapo triggers should do the job, except that they won't give you an HSS option. HSS can be very useful when the ambient light is not low and you still want to achieve a shallow DOF look using flash.

Thanks for advice! I wasn't aware of the sleep/wake function of Cactus triggers.

---------- Post added 04-07-18 at 09:21 AM ----------

It sounds like you will be working at fairly close distances, so as long as the control flash on the camera has line of sight to the slaves, then P-TTL optical wireless should be ok for your HSS needs. Is the Sigma model HSS capable also? If so just place things so that the sensors on both slaves can "see" the control flash, and it should work well up to around 5-6 metres.

Considering the flashes you have/are getting then this is the easiest and most economical option. You would need 3 V6II units, quite an expense, to go that Radio route, plus the added complexities of learning and setting up the system, and extra battery management. Unless the distance or angles and line of sight problems are significant, then I'd just get practising with P-TTL optical triggering and become fluent in setting up and achieving your desired flash exposures quickly.

I Recommend M camera mode with a fixed ISO of 100 or 200 for HSS working. Fix your aperture also as needed and use shutter "speed" to control the ambient brightness. The flash exposures are controlled with flash compensation settings on each flash plus a global adjustmemt from the camera FC control.

Thank you advice! This is exactly what I wanted to know. It shouldn't be a very complicated shoot, just a small school prom. I figured it'd be a good opportunity to practice. I don't think Sigma is HSS capable (it's quite old and was just given to me), but I thought it is possible to have Sigma fire at HSS speeds as long as it's a slave to the HSS master flash? If not, maybe I need 1 more hss capable flash, which would still be cheaper than buying 3 cactus v6 II for sure lol, they're quite pricey.

[mcgregni]

I don't think that cactus V6IIs actually wake up a 'sleeping' slave flash either ..... ? I have always had to go over to the slaves and press any button if they go to sleep.

[awscreo]

I don't think that cactus V6IIs actually wake up a 'sleeping' slave flash either ..... ? I have always had to go over to the slaves and press any button if they go to sleep.

I see. Is there any way to increase the "sleep" timer?

Hmm, also need to remember to stack up on batteries lol, next time I go to Sam's Club) The grade I'm taking photos for is not that big, but it's still going to be quite a few photos.

[mcgregni]

Yes, there is a custom setting for the sleep timer. From the RF60 Manual, P39 ....
1. To configure the sleep timer, press, and press a few times until the text area shows <SLEEP>. Then use the + or - buttons to choose from OFF, 3min, 5min, 15min, 30min, or 60min.
2. The option <OFF> will deactivate the sleep mode.
3. Press to confirm and configure other items, or press to confirm and leave.
4. To wake up RF60 from sleep mode, press any button once.

[Class A]

I wasn't aware of the sleep/wake function of Cactus triggers.

Note that Sliver-Surfer mentioned this; it wasn't me.

I'm not aware or any "wake up" capability. As the V6II (as opposed to the V6) come close to emulating a camera, it is conceivable that they can wake up some flash models, but I have no personal experience with that.

Is there any way to increase the "sleep" timer?

In all Cactus devices, you can configure the sleep timer, including setting it to "OFF" so that the device never goes to sleep. That's the only setting I'm using on all my devices. I'd never buy a gadget that has a mandatory sleep timer. That's just annoyance waiting to happen.

N.B., of course optical triggering is an option but note the limitations implied by this approach. You'll have to ensure that there is a "line of sight" connection between the camera and flashes or that at least bounced light hits the optical slaves. For a lot of scenarios, optical triggering will work fine, but any situation that cannot be repeated, say a wedding or reception, etc., I wouldn't try to capture with optical triggering. Even if it works almost all of the time, it may be very regrettable to have it fail for one reason or another in a special situation.

[awscreo]

Note that Sliver-Surfer mentioned this; it wasn't me.

I'm not aware or any "wake up" capability. As the V6II (as opposed to the V6) come close to emulating a camera, it is conceivable that they can wake up some flash models, but I have no personal experience with that.


In all Cactus devices, you can configure the sleep timer, including setting it to "OFF" so that the device never goes to sleep. That's the only setting I'm using on all my devices. I'd never buy a gadget that has a mandatory sleep timer. That's just annoyance waiting to happen.

N.B., of course optical triggering is an option but note the limitations implied by this approach. You'll have to ensure that there is a "line of sight" connection between the camera and flashes or that at least bounced light hits the optical slaves. For a lot of scenarios, optical triggering will work fine, but any situation that cannot be repeated, say a wedding or reception, etc., I wouldn't try to capture with optical triggering. Even if it works almost all of the time, it may be very regrettable to have it fail for one reason or another in a special situation.

Yeah, I wouldn't try optical solution for a wedding. The reason I thought it's a possibility is because it's a fairly controlled situation (I can set my lights as I please, and in general people will all be in the same location for posed photos). I'll need to test if it works well outdoors and indoors, need to figure out what line-of-sight is for those flashes (like where the receiver is, and how wide FOV does it have).

[C_Jones]

As was said the Pentax wireless feature could be used for the Pentax off camera flash units, and also with another type unit if it has an optical slave feature. The HSS may or may not be available on the non-Pentax unit. I have Cactus V5 triggers and they are very dependable, so I would recommend Cactus triggers for triggers if you decide to go that way. As far as HSS goes, if your subjects are moving at a walking pace you may not need it. When you do your portraits, you can use a a low ISO and a shutter speed that is at or below your flash/trigger sync speed (example 160 shutter speed) to allow a darkened background but lit subjects using your flash output. You could probably do that also with the subjects entering the building.

A modifier on your on camera flash may help some for on the move shooting, but if it was me I would most likely use a bare flash with it set to P-TTL. I have a flash arm that extends from the camera and allows horizontal or vertical positioning of the flash, and it is definitely a help, but mounting the flash in the standard fashion and shooting P-TTL can give very nice results in most instances.

[mcgregni]

I'm not sure if we should categorise any particular event (eg weddings) as being suited to one or another type of technical triggering approach .... ? I feel it is best to look at the working environment in order to make those sort of decisions.


I have found optical P-TTL flash triggering to be extremely reliable, of similar reliability in terms of successful flash activations as my experience with Cactus radio triggers .... (of course assuming the optical triggering is carried out within the design limits and consideration is given to the distance and line of sight / light bouncing). This includes outdoors in bright light using two slaves for HSS work, where I have taken care with positioning and distance, the angle of the control flash head etc).


Of course, where the circumstances mean that these limits cannot be adhered to then radio triggering comes into its own as the preferable solution.


I do think also that balanced against the potential negatives of optical triggering reliability (should the limitations be pushed) we must consider potential negatives of using multiple Radio trigger units .... in the case here with 2 P-TTL type slave flashes, that's going to mean 3 V6II units. These potential negatives would include greater complexities in configurations / things that can be set wrong / more learning to do in advance to ensure perfection . Also battery management of the three triggers, plus potential connection failures or temporary communication failures between devices should hotshoe connections not be secure.


Of course, the more experience and practice any one person gains with both an optical system and a radio system is going to lead to that individual having greater reliability with whichever they have chosen. That aspect remains equal between the two.





Awscreo wrote : " ....need to figure out what line-of-sight is for those flashes (like where the receiver is, and how wide FOV does it have"

You can control this and optimise it by using the flash head zoom on the control flash ..... eg zooming in to direct the beam more concentrated towards the slave flash, or alternatively widening the zoom to allow more spread if having to control two slaves that are widely spaced apart. Also turning the control flash head is part of this process.

[awscreo]

As was said the Pentax wireless feature could be used for the Pentax off camera flash units, and also with another type unit if it has an optical slave feature. The HSS may or may not be available on the non-Pentax unit. I have Cactus V5 triggers and they are very dependable, so I would recommend Cactus triggers for triggers if you decide to go that way. As far as HSS goes, if your subjects are moving at a walking pace you may not need it. When you do your portraits, you can use a a low ISO and a shutter speed that is at or below your flash/trigger sync speed (example 160 shutter speed) to allow a darkened background but lit subjects using your flash output. You could probably do that also with the subjects entering the building.

A modifier on your on camera flash may help some for on the move shooting, but if it was me I would most likely use a bare flash with it set to P-TTL. I have a flash arm that extends from the camera and allows horizontal or vertical positioning of the flash, and it is definitely a help, but mounting the flash in the standard fashion and shooting P-TTL can give very nice results in most instances.

Hmm, I don't have much experience with flash photography, but I was lead to believe that using something like a softbox, FStoppers disc or Gary Fong's Sphere on a flash would soften the shadows and give more pleasing results for stuff like that (proms, weddings, events etc). Is that not correct? As a newb, I want to find the most efficient way to deliver good results so they can think of me next time they need an event photographer

---------- Post added 04-07-18 at 11:02 AM ----------

You can control this and optimise it by using the flash head zoom on the control flash ..... eg zooming in to direct the beam more concentrated towards the slave flash, or alternatively widening the zoom al allow more spread if having to control two slaves that are widely spaces apart. Also turning the control flash head is part of this process.

Hmm, I believe 360 fgz doesn't have a rotating head right? I wonder if that would be an issue.. Again, would probably need to test it - I'll just go outside and setup 2 lights with umbrellas at 45 degree angles from the camera's LOS, and see if 360 fgz would trigger them. Maybe if it's set at wide angle it'd be ok.

[C_Jones]

The attachment may cause some diffusion, but it also weakens the flash output. I could see someone using something like that for an instance where you have to spread light for a group, but if I have the intention of conserving power and shooting on the move I will either use bare flash or use the diffuser that comes with the flash head.

It is sort of dependent on user opinion or taste, but I would be resorting to an umbrella or softbox if my intent was for dedicated wrap around or diffusion/softening of light on a subject.

[awscreo]

The attachment may cause some diffusion, but it also weakens the flash output. I could see someone using something like that for an instance where you have to spred light for a group, but if I have the intention of conserving power and shooting on the move I will either use bare flash or use the diffuser that comes with the flash head.

It is sort of dependent on user opinion or taste, but I would be resorting to an umbrella or softbox if my intent was for dedicated wrap around or diffusion/softening of light on a subject.

Well, I wanted to use my umbrellas (or a large-ish softbox) for staged/posed photos outside. Maybe inside I can get away with bare flash, I need to actually go to the location and see what the conditions are like.

---------- Post added 04-07-18 at 11:11 AM ----------

Hmm, I'm checking specs for 540 at B&H, and I noticed that optical pulse is only detected at up to 4m. That's pretty short no? I was hoping to use my Tamron 70-200 for outside photos to achieve shallow dof and good compression on faces, but I'm afraid 4m might be too short for a long lens? The YN 585 seems to offer a much longer pulse sensitivily - up to 25m... I was thinking to buy a third HSS light for the shoot, maybe i'll need to pick up this YN..

Yongnuo YN585EX Speedlite for Pentax Cameras YN585EX/PENTAX B&H