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06-02-2018, 04:31 AM   #1
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A little Cactus V6ii and RF60x help please :)

So, I'm just now getting round to testing things.

I have to say both manuals are a mind field of information and really have not assisted me one little bit in getting these two to talk and communicate. I did watch a youtube video which in it's 2mins of runtime was more useful than 30mins of trolling through manuals and trying to read what others have had to say.
Here's what I have done thus far;

Updated the firmware on both units.

Switch the flash on.
Switch the camera on.
Switch the v6ii on (tx).
Set the flash to S mode, ensuring Group A and Channel 1 is showing.
Set the V6ii to A and ensure channel 1.
I'm in Av mode.

That's it really, it works but my main gripe is this;

I have the Samyang 85mm attached to the K-1. The K-1 has been told that it's 85mm focal length attached. If the flash unit didn't get this info its cool because with the wheel dial thingy on the v6ii u can change it. It shows TTL and you get the ev power flash adjustment, cool.
But I get stuck on this display seen in the attachment, that is when i rotate the dial or press buttons it will not budge, but sometimes it does and I can get back to the Group A B C D place etc where I can see Group A and adjust the ev compensation etc.

It really feels 'buggy' like, i can rotate the dial and hear it adjust the focal length on the flash as i turn the dial, yet i can't see that info, it's just flickering incredibly fast on the screenshot attached.

Further more, it's cool it gives an ISO, but it's not accurate. I mean I can adjust my aperture on the K-1 and watch the ISO change on the v6ii, I changed my aperture till it said 2500 ISO on the v6ii, image was actually taken at 3200 ISO. Same thing at different ISO's, it might say ISO 180, image says ISO 800...

And then why is it saying 24mm here, when in Group A (on the off chance the v6ii unit lets me get back to that screen, it says 80mm (and the RF60x says 80mm too...)

I dunno... might try factory reset and install the latest firmware on the v6ii again?

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06-02-2018, 04:50 AM   #2
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Hi Bruce, the ISO display has no practical significance for actual shooting . It's just a way to test comunications are working. Stick to working with the display just showing the groups (A B C D) and either the compensation amount (TTL mode) or power level ( M mode).

There is a menu preference setting to switch off that ISO display ... You should turn it off, it gets in the way.

Last edited by mcgregni; 06-02-2018 at 05:01 AM.
06-02-2018, 06:19 AM   #3
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Here's a video of what I mean. Stay to the end, you can hear me rotate teh dial, not get to see the screen properly but hear the changes on the flash zoom etc.
Is this atypical behaviour?

06-02-2018, 06:34 AM   #4
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Hi Bruce, just find the setting that turns off the ISO display thing so you can start to use it all properly. (See below for the setting ....)

Also I strongly recommend working with a fixed aperture and ISO when trying to control multiple flashes and ambient exposure balancing..... This will help to ensure the automatic flash exposures are accurate and consistent. ...M camera mode is best for learning and experimenting as you can see the effect of individual isolated adjustments.

---------- Post added 02-06-18 at 13:55 ----------

Ok, I had time to grab the V6II now ..... Go to the Preferences Menu, the "Camera Info" item should be set to Off.


Last edited by mcgregni; 06-02-2018 at 06:59 AM.
06-02-2018, 09:46 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
If the flash unit didn't get this info its cool because with the wheel dial thingy on the v6ii u can change it.
I'm not sure that you have the correct idea about these zoom setting indicators.

You need to distinguish between the focal length of the lens, the zoom setting of an on-camera flash, and the zoom setting for off-camera flashes. An on-camera flash's zoom setting will typically mimic (approximate as closely as possible) the focal length of the lens (and follow it in the case of adjustments to a zoom lens). Off-camera flashes, however, may have zoom settings (expressed in "mm", like a focal length) that are completely independent of the lens' focal length.

So, in essence:
What the V6II displays with a "mm" unit on the "camera info" screen, is a flash zoom setting that it receives from the camera (and that an on-camera flash would follow, if configured to "auto-zoom").

What the V6II displays with "mm" units four times on the normal status screen are the zoom settings of the off-camera flashes in groups A, B, C, and D.

It is normal for the on-camera flash zoom setting to be different to the individual (manually controlled) zoom settings for the off-camera flashes in groups A-D.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
But I get stuck on this display seen in the attachment, that is when i rotate the dial or press buttons it will not budge,
For some reason, apparently the camera is still sending information to the V6II which the latter tries to process.

I'd follow mcgregni's advice and simply turn off the "CAMERA INFO" display. This should address your current issue of a "camera info" screen making it temporarily impossible to see the normal status screen.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I mean I can adjust my aperture on the K-1 and watch the ISO change on the v6ii,
That's probably because you allow the camera to automatically adjust its ISO setting (in addition to the shutter speed setting). The V6II's ISO display should mirror what the camera indicates.

I'm assuming that you may have an easier time, if you switched to manual ("M") mode, but turning off the "CAMERA INFO" screen should also help and then you can see how far you can get with "Av" mode.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Same thing at different ISO's, it might say ISO 180, image says ISO 800.
Such differences should normally not occur. I wouldn't worry though, as long as you are getting correct exposures.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
And then why is it saying 24mm here, when in Group A (on the off chance the v6ii unit lets me get back to that screen, it says 80mm (and the RF60x says 80mm too...)
The camera info display shows "24mm" because the camera fails to correctly report the manually set focal length. If you were using an FA lens, for instance, the camera would report the correct zoom setting to the V6II (and an on-camera flash).

I verified this by mounting my Metz 58 AF-2 flash to my camera. When I mount one of my FA Ltds, the displayed zoom setting ("AZoom" value) is appropriate (i.e., not identical to the focal length, but as close as possible).

If I mount my Rokinon (Samyang) 85/1.4, the zoom setting on the Metz 58 AF-2 shows "24mm", so the flash and V6II are in agreement. Apparently Pentax believe there is no point in properly supporting mere "A"-lenses, given that the latter don't provide any distance information.

The actual value shown may have some impact on how P-TTL calculates exposures -- mcgregni might know something about that -- but hopefully you can ignore all that for your purposes. The "camera info" display is really most useful to detect camera-V6II connection issues. If the values on the V6II's "camera info" display stop responding to changes on the camera then you should re-seat the V6II. However, outside this exception, you should be able to ignore the "camera info" values reported.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Hi Bruce, the ISO display has no practical significance for actual shooting .
That's not quite true.

The camera settings reported by the camera are used by the V6II to support advanced automatic flash power compensation modes. For instance, it is possible to configure the V6II so that any changes to the camera settings automatically cause the flash power to be adjusted, even when the flash is manually controlled. This makes it easy to manually dial in the power and then change a setting on the camera (e.g. the aperture) without having to manually adjust the manual flash power setting on the V6II.

It seems safe to say that Bruce should not worry about any of this for the time being, but it is not correct to say that the displayed values are always inconsequential for actual shooting.
06-02-2018, 10:13 AM   #6
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The ISO setting that matters is the one shown on the camera. I’m not sure, as I said, that there is any practical purpose during shooting to looking at the V6II display of ISO (when ‘Camera Info ‘ is set On).
I have been using it with this set to off ever since we last discussed it at Cactus Forums and have enjoyed very good automatic flash exposure control, and very consistent flash exposures throughout adjustments to aperture and ISO.
I remember Antonio referring to the Camera Info display as a means to test communications between camera and Tx .....is that not it’s only real practical purpose?

In any case it has to be switched off because it keeps coming on and preventing interactions with the stuff that matters.
Finally, as Bruce has been told on another thread, he should not expect accurate P-TTL flash exposures with an A type lens, regardless of whether the focal length is reported correctly or not. If he gets good and consistent flash exposures with the Samyang then that’s an unexpected bonus.
My main worry with a lens like that would not be flash exposure though (I’d use Manual), but rather how the hell to get anyone’s eyes in focus !

Last edited by mcgregni; 06-02-2018 at 10:23 AM.
06-02-2018, 03:19 PM   #7
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Good morning all,
I have a new problem, I would appreciate a quick swift reply to the issue as I actually have a potential client coming around in a couple hours time! (very last minute, he contacted me last minute last night!).

All my flash shots with the settings I mention above thus far are giving me a 'split' flash, like something is misfiring in timing with the flash, the shot and the shutter opening and closing.

Please look at the three images, it appears to be occurring at various shutter speeds.

The one inside 1/200th, the ones outside 1/8000th. (Av Mode). Ignore the technical aspects of the shot, this was me just trying to replicate the 'banding' across the image quickly to trouble shoot.

I included an overexposed flash outside as it shows it's obviously happening, but its there on the subtle use one as well (subject well lit top half, nothing bottom half, same as the shot on Tatum's head indoors).

Why is this happening? I can't get a proper flash shot off :S

---------- Post added 06-03-18 at 09:03 AM ----------

This seems to be happening more in Av and TAv mode, going to manual mode I have not been able to replicate the banding effect (tried various shutter speeds) to the same intensity at least. I think it's still there slightly on some of the more pronounced extreme setting shots but not nearly as blatantly obvious as to the above shots show.

Anyway, a new issue I'm wondering if someone can assist in.
I have a V6ii trigger on the K-1, I have the RF60X on a light stand. I have the Metz 44 -AF2 on another lightstand with snoot attached. I am trying to use it/test as a hair light shot, I put it into Slave mode (which has triggered it into going off before with the 540II firing), this time however the cactus flash is not triggering it at all
EDIT: Furthermore, some more testing outside in Av mode, I notice that my shutter speeds are either 1/8000 or they suddenly drop to 1/200 (depending upon aperture). So I can have everything working, confirm flash fires at 1/8000 at f1.6 for example, dial the aperture down, f1.8 (still 1/8000), f2 (still 1/8000), f2.2 (still 1/8000), f2.5 and now it's showing shutter speed at 1/200... That's weird no?
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Last edited by BruceBanner; 06-02-2018 at 04:28 PM.
06-02-2018, 04:25 PM   #8
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Steady on, one thing at a time. I think you should slow things down and get to grips with your new trigger system one step at a time, or it will be very difficult to achieve real control and consistency.

Did you get the display and inteface control issue sorted out, firstly?

06-02-2018, 04:35 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Steady on, one thing at a time. I think you should slow things down and get to grips with your new trigger system one step at a time, or it will be very difficult to achieve real control and consistency.

Did you get the display and inteface control issue sorted out, firstly?
Yep, I disabled the camera info thing so that I can control the flash zoom setting for a Group and TTL ev compensation, all that works fine now with no more annoying flickering of the info screen like in the vid.

The flash banding effect is a peculiar one to me, it seems to come and go, I think it helps if I toggle in and out of a mode, so basically if it's happening, then either reboot camera and try again, or toggle to manual and back to av mode and it stops.
06-02-2018, 09:30 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
The ISO setting that matters is the one shown on the camera.
Surely the camera ISO setting matters, but why are you implicitly denying the relevance of the data the V6II (or an on-camera flash) receives from the camera?
Some of that data is at least sometimes used to influence flash power levels so there are situations in which the ISO setting displayed on the V6II (whether it is real or corrupted) matters as well.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Iím not sure, as I said, that there is any practical purpose during shooting to looking at the V6II display of ISO (when ĎCamera Info Ď is set On).
The practical values are
  1. receiving confirmation that the connection between camera and V6II is still working.
  2. understanding when exposures do not meet expectations in certain situations.
A normal V6II unit should retain a proper connection throughout a shoot and I'm unfamiliar with situations where an incorrect ISO value may cause incorrect flash exposures. Therefore, I personally also just turn the camera info display off. Other shooters who make use of P-TTL and/or advanced V6II features like "flash compensate" may suffer when the V6II's camera parameter values are not in sync with the actual camera parameter values for whatever reason.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
I have been using it with this set to off ever since we last discussed it at Cactus Forums and have enjoyed very good automatic flash exposure control, and very consistent flash exposures throughout adjustments to aperture and ISO.
There are probably many reasons for your positive experience (e.g., having a consistent connection between V6II and camera, not using an "A"-lens, ...) but I don't think one can use it to generalise that the exposure parameters known to the V6II are irrelevant.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
I remember Antonio referring to the Camera Info display as a means to test communications between camera and Tx .....is that not itís only real practical purpose?
I think that's probably its main practical purpose.

However, note that it is also useful in understanding the flash power levels calculated by the camera. For instance, the "24mm" zoom setting information tells us that the camera's P-TTL system is treating the 85mm "A"-lens as a 24mm lens for the purposes of its P-TTL calculations. This could have ramifications on choosing the strength of the pre-flash, what parts of the scene are taken into consideration for metering, etc. I don't have any insights into how P-TTL works internally but I think it is plausible that some incorrect data may have a negative impact.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Finally, as Bruce has been told on another thread, he should not expect accurate P-TTL flash exposures with an A type lens, regardless of whether the focal length is reported correctly or not.
I wonder why P-TTL flash exposures are problematic with "A"-lenses.

The subject distance information from other lenses is so crude, it doesn't really provide the camera with that much more information. If the camera just assumed a moderate distance between camera/flash and subject then most P-TTL exposures should be fine with "A"-lenses, no?

BTW, I do not think it is a question at all whether the zoom setting suggested by the camera is incorrect when using an "A"-lens. My Metz 58 AF-2 reports the same "24mm" and you may want to try one of your Pentax flashes, if you have an "A"-lens available.
06-02-2018, 10:14 PM   #11
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I thought ttl and pttl needed auto focus information to work properly. The samyang is manual so it can't comunicate the focus distance. It should need flashes in 'a' mode or manual mode.
06-02-2018, 10:23 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
All my flash shots with the settings I mention above thus far are giving me a 'split' flash, like something is misfiring in timing with the flash, the shot and the shutter opening and closing.
I have very little experience using the V6II in any other camera mode than "M". During beta testing, I did some experiments in "Av" mode and other modes and the V6II behaved fine, but I did not try to explore all possible behaviour due to the fact that the expected behaviour is not well-documented and that if the V6II works in principle, all observed issues should just reflect the idiosyncrasies of P-TTL.

It is possible, however, that the V6II isn't playing as nicely as it should when modes other than "M" are used. Determining whether that's the case would require comparisons between the behaviours of a P-TTL flash that is directly connected to the camera versus one which uses the V6II for communication.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I included an overexposed flash outside as it shows it's obviously happening, but its there on the subtle use one as well (subject well lit top half, nothing bottom half, same as the shot on Tatum's head indoors).
These banding issues could be due to the V6II firmware needing correction (with respect to modes other than "M") or could perhaps be symptoms of an inconsistent camera/V6II connection.

If banding comes and goes without you touching the V6II at all, I think that should practically rule out an inconsistent camera/V6II connection.

Note that non-banding related issues, e.g., just flat out overexposure, could be just due to normal P-TTL behaviour. You'd have to try and see how a P-TTL flash directly connected to the camera (mounted on the hot-shoe or using a P-TTL cable) behaves in comparison. Your use of an "A"-lens is not helping you at all in those matters. Even with more advanced lenses, I find P-TTL to work amazingly well in some situations but become unpredictable in others.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
This seems to be happening more in Av and TAv mode, going to manual mode I have not been able to replicate the banding effect (tried various shutter speeds) to the same intensity at least.
I would encourage you to use "M" mode, not in order to accommodate the V6II but to get more control, more consistency and fewer surprises in general.

Even P-TTL advocates like mcgregni typically suggest to use "M" mode. Otherwise, there could be a lot of variables to be aware of. If the camera automatically changes the shutter speed, for instance, this will have implications on flashes that are have a manually set power level but fire HSS bursts because the shutter speed is above the camera's sync-speed. Automatically changing ISO values are a known hazard when using P-TTL flashes on- or off-camera.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I have a V6ii trigger on the K-1, I have the RF60X on a light stand. I have the Metz 44 -AF2 on another lightstand with snoot attached. I am trying to use it/test as a hair light shot, I put it into Slave mode (which has triggered it into going off before with the 540II firing), this time however the cactus flash is not triggering it at all
It seems that you are not using a V6II receiver for the Metz 44 AF-2 but trying to trigger the latter through optical triggering. Is that correct?

If so, I think you'd need to configure the Metz 44 AF-2 in a way that it responds to non-P-TTL flashes. Metz typically dubs this as the "servo" mode (as opposed to "slave" mode). The RF60X will not send out all the palaver that is optically communicated between P-TTL flashes. That's probably why the Metz 44 AF-2 is not responding to the RF60X. Of course, you need a direct line of sight between the Metz's optical sensor and the RF60X but I guess you took care of that.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Furthermore, some more testing outside in Av mode, I notice that my shutter speeds are either 1/8000 or they suddenly drop to 1/200 (depending upon aperture). So I can have everything working, confirm flash fires at 1/8000 at f1.6 for example, dial the aperture down, f1.8 (still 1/8000), f2 (still 1/8000), f2.2 (still 1/8000), f2.5 and now it's showing shutter speed at 1/200... That's weird no?
Again, I have practically no experience using the V6II in combination with "Av" mode.

The "1/200" speed suspiciously matches the sync-speed of the K-1. It appears the camera switches between assuming there is an HSS-capable flash available (or, alternatively, no flash mounted at all) to assuming there a flash mounted that does not support HSS (in which case it wouldn't support shutter speeds higher than 1/200s).

If I were you, I'd make sure that the V6II's sync-mode is set to "HSS NORMAL". I'd also verify that these shutter speed switches occur without me touching the V6II to rule out an intermittent connection issue. I'd also try to check whether any such phenomena occur with the Metz 44 AF-2 mounted to the camera as well. Finally, I'd approach the forum-resident P-TTL expert mcgregni about whether what I'm seeing could be caused by P-TTL matters or require troubleshooting the V6II.

Of course, you can just make the jump to become an "M" mode user and then be agnostic about issues that may only be problematic in other modes. If you are mixing ambient (natural light) and flash exposures, you ideally want control over both types of exposures independently. If you are using automated modes, such as "Av", you are leaving quite a bit of control to the camera. Some people like to work with the camera's control and use manual compensation to nudge the camera's choices towards the settings they need. Other people feel that using automated modes in flash photography is analogous to two drivers attempting to be in the driver's seat at the same time. "M" mode may seem intimidating but I find it a lot simpler, as I do not have to second guess as to what the camera is trying to achieve and how all the automated controls of exposure parameters interact with each other. Talk about the camera going to "1/90s" when its trying to drag the shutter in "Av" mode and other such mysteries.

There are certainly usages for automated modes in certain fast-paced situations but in my view one then has to familiarise oneself with exactly what the rules of the game are and will have to also ensure that one does not leave the window in which a particular automated mode works well. There are a number of ways to make P-TTL behave badly and one needs to be aware of them in order to avoid them.

Last edited by Class A; 06-02-2018 at 10:35 PM.
06-03-2018, 02:39 AM - 1 Like   #13
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Hey, its all interesting stuff, but Bruce has probably got his third client lined up by now

QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
I thought ttl and pttl needed auto focus information to work properly. The samyang is manual so it can't comunicate the focus distance. It should need flashes in 'a' mode or manual mode.
Thats the theory, yes I agree..... the problem is that we lack any detailed technical data about exactly what contributing information is transmitted between cameras and lenses, and which particular mount / contacts are essential. Also as ClassA has been saying, there is still dispute over how accurate distance information could potentially be. Many users have had good experiences with A series lenses and P-TTL, others have not. I have not (A28 / A50), plus my F35-70 is awful with P-TTL. Pentax state in their flash manuals that for good exposure then autofocus lenses are required, so thats sort of the official line ..... however their camera manuals list A types as compatible, so its contradictory.


Regarding the discussion about the camera info display on the V6II .....

A Pentax P-TTL flash does not display ISO information, so there is no way to uitilise that as a cross check when using the Pentax P-TTL system. My understanding is that flash power calculations are performed by the camera using the data it holds itself (ISO, aperture, focal length, distance, time value (for HSS), and following the pre-flash an adjustment is made for subject reflectivity .... the required power output is communicated to the flash which then outputs it during the exposure. So there is no need for the flash to receive ISO information itself, it has no purpose for that. Flash zoom is not known by the camera, it is not part of the pre calculations ....flash zoom has an effect on the returned light reflected by the subject, and so influences the final output calculation due to that physical aspect. If the flash zoom setting is causing a smaller area to be illuminated than the full image circle, then the power will be cut accordingly once the light has returned measured through the lens.

ClassA, you have said that the V6II system simply uses the P-TTL system for exposure calculations (it doesn't add any additional light measuring features),so my assumption is that just like a Pentax flash, the V6II has no practical use for ISO information during normal P-TTL working. That was what I was saying .... that for everyday real life use, and certainly for Bruce here trying to get things going, then it is getting in the way and should be switched off. Now, whether that information is needed for Flash Compensate or Power lock purposes is definately something for another thread ......(BTW, neither of these features work for me yet! I may not be on the latest firmware, so still needs re-testing).

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I have very little experience using the V6II in any other camera mode than "M". During beta testing, I did some experiments in "Av" mode and other modes and the V6II behaved fine, but I did not try to explore all possible behaviour due to the fact that the expected behaviour is not well-documented and that if the V6II works in principle, all observed issues should just reflect the idiosyncrasies of P-TTL.
Av works, but is very hard to manage in my experience, unless you impose studio type conditions outdoors .... this is because when holding the camera and moving around during a shoot the light is constantly changing (eg pointing the lens down to the ground then lifting it back up again, every small movement around where it catches the sun or shadow) .... every time this happens the shutter speed leaps around and jumps into and out of HSS territory ....your flash keeps jumping into and out of HS sync, and the metering has to constantly keep adjusting. It all adds up to inconsistencies and confusion about whether you're in HS sync or not, needing to check all the time. Much better to keep all the key parameters fixed based on your required ambient exposure (controlled precisely with time value), DOF (aperture),and ISO 100 ...(there's no point to any other ISO other than 100 for this sort of HSS work, right? )

The banding issues should not be related to P-TTL or camera modes, they seem likely to relate to configuration and/or communication issues with the V6II.

Also, regarding the Metz flash (presumably working as a 'dumb optical slave' ?) ..... this is not compatible with HSS. Your Metz (and other dedicated system flashes) have to be working in P-TTL Slave mode for HSS to work, triggered by an Optical Master/Control flash. In Servo mode then your Metz flash may trigger but fire out of sync with the exposure. If you want to include the Metz within your Radio HSS system then you need a V6II as reciever on the Metz....... but you know what Bruce, take my advice, don't even go there..... just get another RF60x !

Last edited by mcgregni; 06-03-2018 at 03:03 AM.
06-03-2018, 04:26 AM   #14
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Evening all.

Well after a few more hours this morning trouble shooting I just gave up, I could not replicate consistent flash shots, even in Manual mode, something is amiss. I did get some lovely natural light portrait shots of my client nonetheless and will work on a more formal studio lit shot in the future, so the pressure is off to get this resolved quickly.

I have had an afterthought however... Some of you may recall that in the past I used a Vello cable and 540II flash (currently for sale in the market place), and occasionally I was feeling as though I just wasn't able to shift into HSS mode easily. At times I felt that perhaps the fault lied in the K-1 contact points, a little gentle wiggling of the vello cable attached on the K-1 and I noticed the 540II flash sometimes 'pick up' the info it was not receiving too well (such as the lens mm mounted etc), so I'm really starting to think perhaps my K-1 contacts are filthy and need a good clean or possibly even a bit 'broken'.
Silly me all this time forgot I had a KP that I could also test all this out with... stupid huh, the thought never dawn on me to try my second shooter in all of this!So i shall do this and report back.

I have not have the chance to go through the replies here properly yet, so I'll report my findings and get back to all the various issues raised in the replies that I at least understand hehe.

Thanks everyone for trying to help me!

Bruce
06-03-2018, 04:48 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
A Pentax P-TTL flash does not display ISO information, so there is no way to uitilise that as a cross check when using the Pentax P-TTL system.
A P-TTL flash does, however, show distance information (when the flash head is angled forward).

You'll notice that the distance information changes when one adjusts the ISO setting or other camera parameters.
So there is communication between the camera and a P-TTL flash and I'm afraid neither of us have the insider knowledge to state what the information is used for in the flash.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Flash zoom is not known by the camera, it is not part of the pre calculations .
Are you perhaps making assumptions without stating that they are assumptions?

With a flash in "auto zoom" mode, the camera knows exactly what zoom setting the flash has and I don't see how you can exclude that in such cases the camera makes use of that information. AFAIC, the camera would be negligent to not use the information. I don't know whether P-TTL makes use of the information but it would make sense if it did.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
ClassA, you have said that the V6II system simply uses the P-TTL system for exposure calculations (it doesn't add any additional light measuring features),so my assumption is that just like a Pentax flash, the V6II has no practical use for ISO information during normal P-TTL working.
Well, camera parameters are definitely needed in some of the modes the V6II can operate in. I don't know to what extent (if any) they are needed during "normal P-TTL working" but I don't think we should assume anything.

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Now, whether that information is needed for Flash Compensate or Power lock purposes is definately something for another thread ......(BTW, neither of these features work for me yet! I may not be on the latest firmware, so still needs re-testing).
Yes, I agree that a detailed discussion is out of place here. I only responded to your view that the parameters displayed on the "camera info" screen are immaterial. That is definitely not the case in general and as usual I'm unable to let such inaccurate statements slide.
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