[Kobie]

Hi all,

I'm curious about something and have had inquiries related to my same curiosity...
If anyone has a Shanny SN600FGZ AND another HSS Pentax flash, could you try the following test?

No triggers, just mount the non Shanny HSS flash to the hotshoe, set it to HSS.
On the Shanny, use S1, or S2 and enable HSS.

Curious minds would like to know if the Shanny will be quick enough with HSS enabled in S1/S2 to add to the photo when triggered by another HSS flash.
My guess is that being able to select HSS while in S1/S2 is an oversite and won't function, but I don't have another HSS flash to test this with.

Please and thank you!

[stub]

Just had a quick try for you Kobi... No time right now. So this is by no means perfect. Placed my Pentax AF540FGZ on my k1 in PTTL HSS 1/500th ISO 800.. Picture taken. Added Shanny M mode HSS S2. Full Power. Both flashes fire but no impression from the Shanny on the image. Tried in S1 same result... When putting the Shanny in Pttl mode couldnt get it to select slave mode also... That could be me not used it for a while....

[mcgregni]

As a "dumb optical slave" (S1 / S2) the Shanny can only function up to the max sync speed. Wireless HSS syncing needs specialized control signals that can only be sent via P-TTL Wireless Mode (not offered on the Shanny) or by a Radio P-TTL/HSS trigger system.

[Kobie]

Just had a quick try for you Kobi... No time right now. So this is by no means perfect. Placed my Pentax AF540FGZ on my k1 in PTTL HSS 1/500th ISO 800.. Picture taken. Added Shanny M mode HSS S2. Full Power. Both flashes fire but no impression from the Shanny on the image. Tried in S1 same result... When putting the Shanny in Pttl mode couldnt get it to select slave mode also... That could be me not used it for a while....

Pretty much what I suspected. Thanks!

---------- Post added 08-15-18 at 05:43 PM ----------

As a "dumb optical slave" (S1 / S2) the Shanny can only function up to the max sync speed. Wireless HSS syncing needs specialized control signals that can only be sent via P-TTL Wireless Mode (not offered on the Shanny) or by a Radio P-TTL/HSS trigger system.

I figured as much, but also thought why not find out for sure if the ability to select HSS while in S1/S2 mode was an oversite or if it actually does enable something to allow HSS off camera as an optical slave.
Well, now I know for sure. It's an oversite.
Cactus V6 II's it is then!

[jolepo]

Good day.
I have already talked with Kobie on this subject and it really is a pity that it is not possible to blink the Shanny in High Speed Synchronization (HSS) in slave mode (S1 / S2).
However, it is very rare that the flash user manual refers to this possibility, as can be seen in the areas marked in red in the "SHANNY SN600FGZ_indicacions.jpg" file attached to the message.
Thanks!

---------- Post added 08-16-18 at 02:43 AM ----------

Sorry @Kobie , @stub and @mcgregni , but I still do not know how the forum works and I did not refer you correctly.

[mcgregni]

Well, that comment is nonsensical. "Set-Top" refers to using the flash on camera, so it's contradictory as the comment is about the slave modes, and clearly there's a poor translation going on also.

It's possible there are elements from the Manual that relate to other camera systems and the Shanny model for those, and so it's not completely specific to the Pentax version.

Under "Special Explanations" it says that no TTL functions are supported in the Slave modes ....HSS with Pentax optical wireless requires P-TTL, so that rules it out. The other references to "Step M mode flash" make no sense, and may be relevant to another camera system and it's "controller" capabilities. ......?

[jolepo]

Well, that comment is nonsensical. "Set-Top" refers to using the flash on camera, so it's contradictory as the comment is about the slave modes, and clearly there's a poor translation going on also.

It's possible there are elements from the Manual that relate to other camera systems and the Shanny model for those, and so it's not completely specific to the Pentax version.

Well, as I said before, it's a pity ... we'll have to settle for what we have ...
Thanks!

[jolepo]

Just had a quick try for you Kobi... No time right now. So this is by no means perfect. Placed my Pentax AF540FGZ on my k1 in PTTL HSS 1/500th ISO 800.. Picture taken. Added Shanny M mode HSS S2. Full Power. Both flashes fire but no impression from the Shanny on the image. Tried in S1 same result... When putting the Shanny in Pttl mode couldnt get it to select slave mode also... That could be me not used it for a while....

Taking advantage of the fact that an old friend, whom I had not seen for many years now, has come home and is a Pentax user, we have done a similar test to what he did "stub":
Pentax camera: flash activated, 1/2000 speed, with a Pentax AF540FGZ flash on the shoe, P-TTL mode and HSS activated.
The camera focusing on a Shanny SN600FGZ flash, in MANUAL mode, slave S2, HSS activated and 1/16 power.
The trigger is pressed and the resulting photo shows the Shanny flash completely on.
Another test with the power at 1/32 and the result is the same: Shanny is fully lit.
This means that, understanding that it can not work like HSS, it is capable of emitting enough light while the camera shutter is firing at 1/2000 speed.
Obviously, the last test has been with Shanny to the maximum power (1/1) and, as it could not be otherwise, Shanny is totally ignited.
For me it was good news!

[stub]

I did state that the AF540 would trigger the Shanny unit.. But the Shanny unit didnt make any impression in an image with the light it emitted... Sincerely hope im wrong.

[mcgregni]

I think you need to assess this by photographing a scene actually lit by the Shanny flash, not a photo of the Shanny flash lit by a Pentax flash on the camera.


Also I think the triggering flash should be in "control" mode to remove its effect from the scene, so that you are seeing only the results of the Shanny's output during the exposure time.

[jolepo]

I think you need to assess this by photographing a scene actually lit by the Shanny flash, not a photo of the Shanny flash lit by a Pentax flash on the camera.


Also I think the triggering flash should be in "control" mode to remove its effect from the scene, so that you are seeing only the results of the Shanny's output during the exposure time.

Regarding the comment of the company "mcgregni", next week I will have the opportunity to take the test that comments. I will pass the results.
At the moment I wanted to do a different test, using the system called "HiperSync / PowerSync": it is about lighting an interior scene, using a slave flash (S2) at maximum power (1/1) that will be activated when it is Shoot a flash, in HSS mode, installed in the camera with the slightest impact of its light on the scene.
To do this, I mounted this configuration:
* Camera with ISO 200, f5.6, 1/2000. Distance between camera and scene to photograph: approximately 160cm.
* Flash Shanny SN600FGZ in the shoe of the camera, P-TTL, HSS, -3.0EV and directing the flash head in the opposite direction where the scene to be photographed.
* Flash Yongnuo YN560IV in ESCLAU S2 mode, power 1/1 directing the head towards the scene to be photographed.
First I turned off the Yongnuo slave flash to take a picture of the scene without lighting (it is the first attached photo). The Shanny has been shot, connected to the camera shoe, and it can be seen that it is almost dark.
Then I turned on the Yongnuo and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in the second attached photo, after the Yongnuo responded with the highest power to the Shanny in HSS.
Finally, I modified the shutter speed on the camera: 1/6000.
I shot and I got the third attached photo, illuminated but darker than the previous one, which is totally logical because I have only changed the speed parameter.
I think it is a system that can be useful in some cases.

[Kobie]

Regarding the comment of the company "mcgregni", next week I will have the opportunity to take the test that comments. I will pass the results.
At the moment I wanted to do a different test, using the system called "HiperSync / PowerSync": it is about lighting an interior scene, using a slave flash (S2) at maximum power (1/1) that will be activated when it is Shoot a flash, in HSS mode, installed in the camera with the slightest impact of its light on the scene.
To do this, I mounted this configuration:
* Camera with ISO 200, f5.6, 1/2000. Distance between camera and scene to photograph: approximately 160cm.
* Flash Shanny SN600FGZ in the shoe of the camera, P-TTL, HSS, -3.0EV and directing the flash head in the opposite direction where the scene to be photographed.
* Flash Yongnuo YN560IV in ESCLAU S2 mode, power 1/1 directing the head towards the scene to be photographed.
First I turned off the Yongnuo slave flash to take a picture of the scene without lighting (it is the first attached photo). The Shanny has been shot, connected to the camera shoe, and it can be seen that it is almost dark.
Then I turned on the Yongnuo and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in the second attached photo, after the Yongnuo responded with the highest power to the Shanny in HSS.
Finally, I modified the shutter speed on the camera: 1/6000.
I shot and I got the third attached photo, illuminated but darker than the previous one, which is totally logical because I have only changed the speed parameter.
I think it is a system that can be useful in some cases.

Interesting results!
Can't wait for the comment test!

[jolepo]

Interesting results!
Can't wait for the comment test!

Here are the tests I promised!

Settings:
* Camera with ISO 200, F5.6, 1/2000. Distance between the camera and the scene in the photograph: approximately 160 cm.
* Flash Metz 52 AF-1 in the shoe of the camera, P-TTL, HSS, -2.0EV and directing the flash head in the opposite direction in which the scene to be photographed is played.
* Flash Shanny SN600FGZ in slave mode S2, HSS activated, powers between 1/64 and 1/1 headed towards the scene to be photographed.
* First I turned off the Slave Shanny flash to take a picture of the scene without lighting (it's photo 1). The Metz connected to the camera's shoe has fired and it can be seen that it is almost dark.
* Then I turned on the Shanny, power 1/64, and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 2, after Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* I changed the power in the Shanny at 1/8 and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 3, after the Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* I changed the power in the Shanny to 1/1 and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 4, after Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* Then I changed the shutter speed to the camera: 1/6000.
* I changed the power in the Shanny at 1/16 and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 5, after Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* I changed the power in the Shanny at 1/4 and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 6, after Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* I changed the power in the Shanny to 1/1 and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 7, after the Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* Finally I did some test shots WITHOUT HSS:
Camera with ISO 200, F5.6, 1/160
Flash Metz in the shoe of the camera, P-TTL, NO HSS, directing the flash head in the opposite direction in which the scene to be photographed is played.
Flash Shanny in slave mode S2, NO HSS, power 1/64, obtaining photo 8.
Flash Shanny in slave mode S2, NO HSS, 1/8 power, obtaining photo 9.
Flash Shanny in slave mode S2, NO HSS, power 1/1, obtaining photo 10.
My conclusions:
With the obvious power limitations triggering in slave mode S2 and HSS activated, Shanny is able to illuminate the scene at any power (1/128 - 1/1), when it receives the optical signal of a P flash -TTL that shoots on HSS, without black strips.
In this way, I think that instructions from Shanny's manual, referring to its ability to fire HSS in manual slave S2 mode, are true, despite the obvious loss of power that is detected in my tests.
Bravo for Shanny!

[Kobie]

Here are the tests I promised!

Settings:
* Camera with ISO 200, F5.6, 1/2000. Distance between the camera and the scene in the photograph: approximately 160 cm.
* Flash Metz 52 AF-1 in the shoe of the camera, P-TTL, HSS, -2.0EV and directing the flash head in the opposite direction in which the scene to be photographed is played.
* Flash Shanny SN600FGZ in slave mode S2, HSS activated, powers between 1/64 and 1/1 headed towards the scene to be photographed.
* First I turned off the Slave Shanny flash to take a picture of the scene without lighting (it's photo 1). The Metz connected to the camera's shoe has fired and it can be seen that it is almost dark.
* Then I turned on the Shanny, power 1/64, and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 2, after Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* I changed the power in the Shanny at 1/8 and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 3, after the Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* I changed the power in the Shanny to 1/1 and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 4, after Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* Then I changed the shutter speed to the camera: 1/6000.
* I changed the power in the Shanny at 1/16 and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 5, after Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* I changed the power in the Shanny at 1/4 and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 6, after Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* I changed the power in the Shanny to 1/1 and I shot the camera again. The result is what can be seen in photo 7, after the Shanny responded to Metz, without getting any black strip.
* Finally I did some test shots WITHOUT HSS:
Camera with ISO 200, F5.6, 1/160
Flash Metz in the shoe of the camera, P-TTL, NO HSS, directing the flash head in the opposite direction in which the scene to be photographed is played.
Flash Shanny in slave mode S2, NO HSS, power 1/64, obtaining photo 8.
Flash Shanny in slave mode S2, NO HSS, 1/8 power, obtaining photo 9.
Flash Shanny in slave mode S2, NO HSS, power 1/1, obtaining photo 10.
My conclusions:
With the obvious power limitations triggering in slave mode S2 and HSS activated, Shanny is able to illuminate the scene at any power (1/128 - 1/1), when it receives the optical signal of a P flash -TTL that shoots on HSS, without black strips.
In this way, I think that instructions from Shanny's manual, referring to its ability to fire HSS in manual slave S2 mode, are true, despite the obvious loss of power that is detected in my tests.
Bravo for Shanny!

Awesome! It works!!!!!!!!
Exactly what I wanted to confirm!

[mcgregni]

Thanks, very good to have that confirmed, and it adds to our knowledge banks of what triggering options are available, particularly for those who already have a dedicated system flash but want a budget slave option, plus manual HSS.

It provides a solution, although not a very ‘neat’ one, and in reality the complexities of having to eliminate the light coming from the on camera flash, plus the need for frequent manual adjustments on the slave flash, will mean that many people will struggle to gain effective control in real life situations.

It would be good to test whether an on camera triggering flash can be used in ‘control’ mode for this, removing the need to use minus compensations and turning the head away....ideally we want to aim the control flash head straight at the slaves optical sensor, and this is very important outdoors in bright sun. I am aware that some Metz flashes don’t provide the option of ‘wireless control plus HSS’ mode together (as the Pentax units do). We might assume that control mode triggering would also work, however there are some differences in the pre flash sequence in that mode which would need testing with the Shanny S2 mode to be sure.