Don't have money to burn

**clackers** · 07-03-2018, 10:41 PM

Originally posted by Mikesul

But, for me at least it takes some test shots.

So does manual mode, Mike, where you might begin at 1/8 power and iterate from there. Same currency too - stops and half stops.

Last edited by clackers; 07-04-2018 at 12:51 AM.

**Mikesul** · 07-04-2018, 07:22 AM

Originally posted by clackers

So does manual mode, Mike, where you might begin at 1/8 power and iterate from there. Same currency too - stops and half stops.

Exactly. If you want to have good control of the light manual mode is essential with some tests.

LarryGE · 07-05-2018, 07:29 AM

Originally posted by mcgregni

For what specifically? ..... That's really the crucial bit you missed out.

Just looking for a 3 light setup something portable and Light that I can use for the grandkids and for once in awhile some light portraits with the family.

CarlJF · 07-05-2018, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by LarryGE

Just looking for a 3 light setup something portable and Light that I can use for the grandkids and for once in awhile some light portraits with the family.

I would recommend one P-TTL flash, that can be use both on camera in P-TTL for "environmental portaits" (like kid's birthday, family reunions...) or casual shots, and also off camera in manual mode for studio work or more formal shots in a multiflashes setup. The Metz 52 is a great flash for this at a decent price. The other two flashes can be cheap manual ones, the more powerful you can afford.

For the three flashes setup, you will also need a set of triggers to fire and sync these flashes. The Cowboy Studios ones are amongt the cheapest for this, very basics but work just fine in a fully manual multiflash setup. You will also need some additional accessories, like lightstands and umbrellas or lightboxes to make it worth the trouble of setting up a three flashes setup.

Last edited by CarlJF; 07-05-2018 at 07:59 AM.

**clackers** · 07-05-2018, 06:58 PM

If you don't mind not being able to shoot at 1/200s or faster, Larry, just about the easiest way to do that is three Yongnuo 560 flashes and a 560 TX controller for them that sits on your hotshoe.

LarryGE · 07-07-2018, 10:16 AM

I have a youngno 585 EX now. I was thinking about the Pentax 540 which would give me also HSS. Will to work together.

**Mikesul** · 07-07-2018, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by LarryGE

I have a youngno 585 EX now. I was thinking about the Pentax 540 which would give me also HSS. Will to work together.

Shanny SN600FGZ P-TTL HSS Flash costs less and is both powerful and has PTTL and HSS.

mcgregni · 07-07-2018, 02:01 PM - **2 Likes**

Unfortunately we are plagued by a frustrating lack of full compatibility between the various Pentax and third party budget P-TTL models ....If only they all "worked together" fully then life would be much easier (and cheaper).

The Yongnuo 585EX has the P-TTL Wireless functioning, as a slave, but not HSS .... so it can be used as a P-TTL slave controlled by a suitable "Master / Controller" flash (eg AF-540FGZ/II), but we can't buy two of them and get this wireless functioning.

In the case of the Shanny, it gives on-camera HSS, but no P-TTL Wireless. So people are left digging around wondering about triggers. IF you have to use two V6II units, that defeats the purpose of saving money buying the flash!

What we need is a "Shangnuo" model, that's has it all, and still for under $100

**Mikesul** · 07-07-2018, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by mcgregni

Unfortunately we are plagued by a frustrating lack of full compatibility between the various Pentax and third party budget P-TTL models ....If only they all "worked together" fully then life would be much easier (and cheaper).

The Yongnuo 585EX has the P-TTL Wireless functioning, as a slave, but not HSS .... so it can be used as a P-TTL slave controlled by a suitable "Master / Controller" flash (eg AF-540FGZ/II), but we can't buy two of them and get this wireless functioning.

In the case of the Shanny, it gives on-camera HSS, but no P-TTL Wireless. So people are left digging around wondering about triggers. IF you have to use two V6II units, that defeats the purpose of saving money buying the flash!

What we need is a "Shangnuo" model, that's has it all, and still for under $100

+1 to that!

LarryGE · 07-07-2018, 09:29 PM

So the bottom line is I dream The Impossible Dream or is there an answer.

mcgregni · 07-08-2018, 12:16 AM

Tell us what sort of flash photography you want to do, and the sort of situations you will be using flash for. Only then can specific things be suggested.

Class A · 07-08-2018, 05:36 AM

Originally posted by mcgregni

the RF60(x) has certain power and performance similarities to the Pentax model, but whereas the AF-540FGZII might be considered the ideal 'rich mans' automatic flash for on-camera use, the Cactus simply cannot be used in the same way at all. It will only offer TTL automated flash exposures when controlled by the V6II transmitter with the specific firmware needed, and this means it is most suited to an off-camera role.

Wow, so you pay less to get better pictures?!

Seriously, personally, I wouldn't pay extra just to be able to pop a flash on to the camera.

Off-camera lighting will typically result in much better images.
Even when using bounce-flash, off-camera usage can be beneficial for improved power or consistency (when moving with the camera).
If it has to be on-camera lighting for some reason, I'd recommend to get a flash bracket. I find regular camera-flash combinations unpleasant to handle (the considerable weight of the flash exerts quite some force when using the camera in portrait mode, for instance. A good flash bracket provides further purchase on the overall quite heavy camera-flash combination and fancy flash brackets even support quick re-orientation of the flash. A V6II with an RF60X on a flash bracket beats a regular on-camera P-TTL flash, AFAIC.

mcgregni · 07-08-2018, 10:13 AM

Well, we're waiting for BruceBanner to prove me wrong on the bracket vs on-camera flash argument! Personally, looking at the various contraptions, ball heads and metal work being shown in Bruce's thread, I think I'll be sticking with my Pentax flash straight on the hotshoe ....

Bounced and flagged flash from on top of the camera can be every bit as directional as off camera. Like with my butterfly face photo, when there is no space for off camera gear, or you just don't have it with you, then on camera flash comes to the rescue.

Of course, indoors, we all want to avoid the poor results and shadows from direct flash, so bounced and flagged is the way to go.

LarryGE · 07-09-2018, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by mcgregni

Tell us what sort of flash photography you want to do, and the sort of situations you will be using flash for. Only then can specific things be suggested.

Just want to shoot family and friends, some landscapes and very few portraits (head and small groups)

Class A · 07-10-2018, 08:48 AM

Originally posted by LarryGE

Just want to shoot family and friends ... and very few portraits (head and small groups)

Indoors?
Outdoors?

Candid shots with people moving about erratically or more controlled situations (e.g., where you can keep the background framing and the subject<->flash distance relatively constant)?

Regarding landscapes, you'll probably find it difficult to achieve anything useful with speedlights due to lack of power unless you are considering low-light scenarios and multiple speedlights and even then it would be an interesting endeavour.

07-08-2018, 05:36 AM	#42
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by mcgregni the RF60(x) has certain power and performance similarities to the Pentax model, but whereas the AF-540FGZII might be considered the ideal 'rich mans' automatic flash for on-camera use, the Cactus simply cannot be used in the same way at all. It will only offer TTL automated flash exposures when controlled by the V6II transmitter with the specific firmware needed, and this means it is most suited to an off-camera role. Wow, so you pay less to get better pictures?! Seriously, personally, I wouldn't pay extra just to be able to pop a flash on to the camera. Off-camera lighting will typically result in much better images. Even when using bounce-flash, off-camera usage can be beneficial for improved power or consistency (when moving with the camera). If it has to be on-camera lighting for some reason, I'd recommend to get a flash bracket. I find regular camera-flash combinations unpleasant to handle (the considerable weight of the flash exerts quite some force when using the camera in portrait mode, for instance. A good flash bracket provides further purchase on the overall quite heavy camera-flash combination and fancy flash brackets even support quick re-orientation of the flash. A V6II with an RF60X on a flash bracket beats a regular on-camera P-TTL flash, AFAIC.

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07-03-2018, 10:41 PM	#31
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	Originally posted by Mikesul But, for me at least it takes some test shots. So does manual mode, Mike, where you might begin at 1/8 power and iterate from there. Same currency too - stops and half stops. Last edited by clackers; 07-04-2018 at 12:51 AM.

07-04-2018, 07:22 AM	#32
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by clackers So does manual mode, Mike, where you might begin at 1/8 power and iterate from there. Same currency too - stops and half stops. Exactly. If you want to have good control of the light manual mode is essential with some tests.

07-05-2018, 07:29 AM	#33
LarryGE New Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Philadelphia PA Posts: 22 Original Poster	Originally posted by mcgregni For what specifically? ..... That's really the crucial bit you missed out. Just looking for a 3 light setup something portable and Light that I can use for the grandkids and for once in awhile some light portraits with the family.

07-05-2018, 07:52 AM	#34
CarlJF Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Location: Quebec City Posts: 1,185	Originally posted by LarryGE Just looking for a 3 light setup something portable and Light that I can use for the grandkids and for once in awhile some light portraits with the family. I would recommend one P-TTL flash, that can be use both on camera in P-TTL for "environmental portaits" (like kid's birthday, family reunions...) or casual shots, and also off camera in manual mode for studio work or more formal shots in a multiflashes setup. The Metz 52 is a great flash for this at a decent price. The other two flashes can be cheap manual ones, the more powerful you can afford. For the three flashes setup, you will also need a set of triggers to fire and sync these flashes. The Cowboy Studios ones are amongt the cheapest for this, very basics but work just fine in a fully manual multiflash setup. You will also need some additional accessories, like lightstands and umbrellas or lightboxes to make it worth the trouble of setting up a three flashes setup. Last edited by CarlJF; 07-05-2018 at 07:59 AM.

07-05-2018, 06:58 PM	#35
clackers Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: Melbourne Photos: Albums Posts: 16,397	If you don't mind not being able to shoot at 1/200s or faster, Larry, just about the easiest way to do that is three Yongnuo 560 flashes and a 560 TX controller for them that sits on your hotshoe.

07-07-2018, 10:16 AM	#36
LarryGE New Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Philadelphia PA Posts: 22 Original Poster	I have a youngno 585 EX now. I was thinking about the Pentax 540 which would give me also HSS. Will to work together.

07-07-2018, 11:21 AM	#37
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by LarryGE I have a youngno 585 EX now. I was thinking about the Pentax 540 which would give me also HSS. Will to work together. Shanny SN600FGZ P-TTL HSS Flash costs less and is both powerful and has PTTL and HSS.

07-07-2018, 02:01 PM - 2 Likes	#38
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	Unfortunately we are plagued by a frustrating lack of full compatibility between the various Pentax and third party budget P-TTL models ....If only they all "worked together" fully then life would be much easier (and cheaper). The Yongnuo 585EX has the P-TTL Wireless functioning, as a slave, but not HSS .... so it can be used as a P-TTL slave controlled by a suitable "Master / Controller" flash (eg AF-540FGZ/II), but we can't buy two of them and get this wireless functioning. In the case of the Shanny, it gives on-camera HSS, but no P-TTL Wireless. So people are left digging around wondering about triggers. IF you have to use two V6II units, that defeats the purpose of saving money buying the flash! What we need is a "Shangnuo" model, that's has it all, and still for under $100

07-07-2018, 05:16 PM	#39
Mikesul Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 7,594	Originally posted by mcgregni Unfortunately we are plagued by a frustrating lack of full compatibility between the various Pentax and third party budget P-TTL models ....If only they all "worked together" fully then life would be much easier (and cheaper). The Yongnuo 585EX has the P-TTL Wireless functioning, as a slave, but not HSS .... so it can be used as a P-TTL slave controlled by a suitable "Master / Controller" flash (eg AF-540FGZ/II), but we can't buy two of them and get this wireless functioning. In the case of the Shanny, it gives on-camera HSS, but no P-TTL Wireless. So people are left digging around wondering about triggers. IF you have to use two V6II units, that defeats the purpose of saving money buying the flash! What we need is a "Shangnuo" model, that's has it all, and still for under $100 +1 to that!

07-07-2018, 09:29 PM	#40
LarryGE New Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Philadelphia PA Posts: 22 Original Poster	So the bottom line is I dream The Impossible Dream or is there an answer.

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07-08-2018, 12:16 AM	#41
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	Tell us what sort of flash photography you want to do, and the sort of situations you will be using flash for. Only then can specific things be suggested.

07-08-2018, 10:13 AM	#43
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	Well, we're waiting for BruceBanner to prove me wrong on the bracket vs on-camera flash argument! Personally, looking at the various contraptions, ball heads and metal work being shown in Bruce's thread, I think I'll be sticking with my Pentax flash straight on the hotshoe .... Bounced and flagged flash from on top of the camera can be every bit as directional as off camera. Like with my butterfly face photo, when there is no space for off camera gear, or you just don't have it with you, then on camera flash comes to the rescue. Of course, indoors, we all want to avoid the poor results and shadows from direct flash, so bounced and flagged is the way to go.

07-09-2018, 11:44 AM	#44
LarryGE New Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Philadelphia PA Posts: 22 Original Poster	Originally posted by mcgregni Tell us what sort of flash photography you want to do, and the sort of situations you will be using flash for. Only then can specific things be suggested. Just want to shoot family and friends, some landscapes and very few portraits (head and small groups)

07-10-2018, 08:48 AM	#45
Class A Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Wellington, New Zealand Posts: 11,251	Originally posted by LarryGE Just want to shoot family and friends ... and very few portraits (head and small groups) Indoors? Outdoors? Candid shots with people moving about erratically or more controlled situations (e.g., where you can keep the background framing and the subject<->flash distance relatively constant)? Regarding landscapes, you'll probably find it difficult to achieve anything useful with speedlights due to lack of power unless you are considering low-light scenarios and multiple speedlights and even then it would be an interesting endeavour.