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07-05-2018, 10:05 AM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Interesting, didn't know that.

-----

I've been spending some more time thinking about things concerning this dilemma I have. I know long term I will be happy to break free from cords and use the Cactus system, hopefully adding more RF60x's to my set up. But to make it all work I think the switching and swapping has to feel fluid and quick. It's one of the reasons I opted to cash in a flash and get a new RF60x rather than a second v6ii, I wanted things to be more streamlined.

I think I'm definitely liking the idea of that flat custom bracket coupled with a ballhead for the flash to mount into. I've attached a couple of images here to show what I currently have to work with and where I think I'll be going. I'm even considering ditching the arca swiss plate system where possible, including the L Plate. I have always really detested the L Plate, it adds so much bulk to the camera and for what... to take the odd portrait shot, with the ability to pan? Eh... I feel like I can do pretty well panning handheld these days...
It's funny how one purchase has a knock on effect to another, and another and another;

So the picture of the three tripods on the table, lemme explain this.

The first tripod on the left is my camera tripod, it's a small light slik tripod and I actually use this the most so I have taken the Joby ballhead off the Joby tripod and placed it on this one because the Joby ball and head and plate has a spirit level thingy (which can be mildly helpful at times, see base of camera).
The middle tripod is a promaster tripod with an extension pole and the Slik ball & head mounted. When everything is extended on this tripod it goes very high indeed, plenty high enough above a persons head. The idea here is to never really unscrew the rf60x from the coldshoe it's connected to, just unhinge the lever and take it out and place on another slik ball and head (that I will have to purchase, they cost $25).
That's where the second picture comes in of just the camera and the rf60x. That's not really a flash bracket plate there or anything, it's just an arca swiss base plate but I think it kinda illustrates where I'm going. The flash can then be attached into that ballhead easily via the lever. When turning the camera to portrait mode i can just quickly untighten the lever on the ballhead slightly and move the flash to the right so that it's still pointing up to the ceiling AND in it's right orientation with the flashhead in its traditional horizontal position.

The only question left is if I am going to run into wireless issues. Setting the cactus to short and long waves, I hope they still communicate ok when set to short, as they do look like they are quite near one another...

Things to look into;

- The custom bracket, are there other ones like it, cheaper perhaps?
- I would like to make sure there are plenty of holes in the custom bracket to make modifcations like this and mount a ball head, I think this rig would work quite well for macro work too!

Thanks for the product and setup shots. Your solution with the small ballhead is very clever.


Steve

07-05-2018, 10:10 AM   #17
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RE bounce with the MagMod MagSphere for portrait orientation...

As with most other speedlights, the head swivels, no special brackets required. I don't know if MagMod recommends the sphere for non-bounce use, but its roundness might help there as well.


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07-05-2018, 02:12 PM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
I'm sorry to be such a cynic Bruce, but that really looks like an accident waiting to happen! If you can't afford a P-TTL flash as well as the RF60x, then you'd be better off using the RF60x in Manual right on the hotshoe.

All this bracket stuff is a lot of faffing for very little gained. It's the quality of light that matters, and neither of the diffusers you've shown me will give much quality. For your on -camera work you really want a flag type diffuser that causes the light to slam sideways straight into a nice big wall, and prevent any from spilling forwards. That is how my shot was taken, and its very quick and secure to manipulate the flag and flash head when they are securely on the hotshoe.

I also use the Battery grip with my K7, it adds to the hand contact and strengthens the grip on things .....I think you'd be better getting the grip for your K1 than any of that bracket and ballhead stuff. Trying to manipulate the flash, flash head and the diffuser positioning with it all sticking out on the side there is asking for confusion and trouble .....

You've got a second camera as well, so why not have that fitted with a P-TTL flash ready to go ...?

My advice is to get your flash onto the hotshoe, get your diffusser on and work at getting the nice directional light you need with consistent and repeatable exposures until you can nail it eyes closed! Get a really strong hands on feel for the adjustments and security of grip needed to do it all professionally ..... Only after that, if you find that there really is a problem, should you start to look for solutions.
Thanks mcgregni for your alternative thoughts and cautioning disposition, it's a valid perspective and always one I welcome. I do have a P-TTL flash (the Metz 44), I am just not overly fond of it and having a flash in the hotshoe! Oddly there are so many discussions of people praising a flash bracket and having the flash situated to the right hand side, where the hand comes to grip the camera means the weight is on both sides of the hand and better balanced, however our new thread joiner below seems to argue the opposite!
Really however you need to see what I am wearing when I am doing my shoots to probably really understand the larger picture here. I have no ZOOM OF ANY KIND, this means I am wearing a billion pouches and side holsters on my person. I suffer from getting back pain so I choose to where a belt with pouches as it places far less strain than any backpack or sling bag with significant weight. I have pouches for my primes, a second shooter (KP) and a flash unit and tripod, but that's really me maxxed out. I want to be as versatile and comfortable as possible, having the Metz 44 AND RF60x on my person is one step too far, I have to choose and therefore I have opted for a single RF60x set up for these kind of jobs (weddings, christenings) as I can mount/dismount from being close to the camera and in a lightstand, something the Metz can't do (unless I get a trigger).

However, I think a lot of this comes down to personal preference, for some reason I really detest having a flash in the hotshoe, I can't stand it, the v6ii trigger is as much as I want in that space! Even if the RF60x could dock (and work fully) with or without the v6ii trigger in this set up I would still be looking into flash brackets (flat brackets) as an alternative approach. Yes... there is something quite wrong with me

And just quickly, one of the reasons I have moved off the Gary Fong diffuser towards the Magmod system is for the quick and ease of dismounting the sphere or bounce to 'naked'. I too love to bounce the flash off the walls, but sometimes no walls exist, and that's where a diffuser can be really handy. The magmod main attachment magnetic thing however is a bit of a PIA to pull over the flash head, once there you really want to leave it there. So again bringing the metz into play also really means spending extra $ for another attachment (so each flash has one, rather than constantly swapping), it was a tight stretch over the RF60x, I really think leaving it on permanently is the best with that setup. So it's kind of a case of how to best spread the $, more magmod or flash bracket solutions. The fong diffuser became annoying, losing the dome part, pushing the rubber back etc, the 'squishability' of the magmod heads feels so much better, the magnets have just the right kind of oompf to secure the head properly without worrying it might accidentally come off.

PS you do realise LeRolls uses a magmod and a 85/1.4 for all his lovely lady shots, you can't possibly tell me the diffusers I now own will lack in 'quality' (say that to LeRolls! lol)... :/ I strongly disagree with you here. Sometimes there are no walls, softboxes are a PIA to ferry around, this is the next best thing and I think the results personally speak for themselves.


QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
Hello,

This is a very interesting thread, let me join to the party. I'm not really on the same boat because you plan to use only cactus triggers and flashes, but I can tell my experience with brackets. When I started to get paid works, I was thinking about a flash bracket. My needs were simple: to set the flash so I could avoid side shadows behind my subjets (on walls, etc) regardless if I shoot landscape or portrait, and also to anchor a trigger to control external flashes. I made a little investigation and bought the demb flash bracket (+ saucer flip-it card) that I still own. At the beginning I was using this bracket the 'correct' way. You put it at the right side of the camera, between lens and grip, so you can get your camera, handle your lens for zoom/focusing, and with some velcro I had my trigger attached to the bracket too. You can find pics about this bracket searching, here is one:



With this configuration I had two cables: main, big, corded P-TTL cable and a little one from camera's sync port to trigger's sync port.
The main disadvantages for me, that made me abandon the idea of putting a flash on a bracket were:
* added weight and bad balance. Flash bracket and cables added extra weight and stress on my right arm, also, cables were bothersome. But the flash on top of the bracket made the whole set unbalanced, added more strees to my right arm/hand. After two hours of use your are tired.
* there were really not so many situations were I need to shoot vertical, that would justify the flash bracket. Even if you need to shoot vertical, if you mix ambient and other lights with your main flash, the side shadow is not so obvious. Moreover, most of the vertical pics can be taken horizontal, just zoom out, crop the pic, done.

So last year I was rethinking about the bracket, main flash, trigger, cables, weight, balance... my decision was:
* to put the main flash on the camera's shoe, just so simple
* 'configure' the bracket so it's on the left side of the camera, just as a simple L-bracket
* put my trigger on the bracket instead of the flash

This way the set is more balanced, I put my right hand on camera grip and left hand is getting the bracket, and this is more rested. So the bracket is just a way to have the trigger attached. Similar to this pic (my second 'HSS-device'), but forget about the two triggers stacked on the bracket , just flash on camera, trigger on bracket, sync cable from trigger to camera's sync port. Yes, you still have a cable.




Negative points: this bracket is not intented to be used in this way, too high, the trigger can interfere with the flash (can be solved), has not a real grip... but worked for me this year... it's not too ugly.

I think that I finally will get a good/strong and simple L-bracket with a grip and will put my trigger on the bracket's shoe, and this will be my final configuration: not so high so I can put the trigger without interfering with the flash, a real grip so was comfortable to handle, light, simple.

About diffusers/bouncers on main flash. My most used device is the demb saucer flip-it, but there are very similar ligh modifiers on the market. This is a 'big bounce card' style modifier, I like it because is easy to set and use, really ligth, doesn't put stress on your flash... there are a lot of similar bouncers, but this does the job for me.

I read a lot about the magmod, and plan to buy the magbeam, but just to project patterns on the wall.

Last year, when I was re-thinking about how to use my flash bracket, triggers, etc, one of the options was to get a RF60x to use as main P-TTL flash, controlled by the Cactus V6 II (so cactus on camera's shoe and RF60x on flash bracket again), similar to your setup, but I dismissed the idea:
* again the added weight and balancing issues
* not sure if worked because the cactus be so close to the RF60x
* have to use the xTTL firmware, and I use the multibrand HSS firmware for the Cactus.

About using the same flash on camera and off camera. My setup is different, as all my external flashes are manual, and only my main flash is P-TTL, so if I need to go outside to get a pic, I get my foldable light stand + umbrella bracket + AD200 + light umbrella with one hand, and my camera + trigger with the other, set the lights in a minute or so and start to shoot. So I have a flash on camera if needed, and other off camera with stand and umbrella, it works for me.

Please tell us your final experience with cactus V6 II + RF on flash bracket. I still didn't find my ideal bracket, but I'm near.

Regards,
Wow, welcome to the discussion and thanks for such a detailed opinion of someone who has kinda been down this route that I am contemplating. I am intrigued to here you find the weight distribution awkward compared to flash up top, a lot of other reviewers and comments I see tend to suggest the opposite is true! This could be one of those personal preference things, for example I am actually talking with Mike from Custom Brackets right now, asking him very specific questions surrounding the Mini RC flash bracket because I like to shoot my K-1 with my right hand pinky finger tucked/curled up underneath the camera, touching the battery compartment. Every video I see of someone with a flash bracket has them pictured or videoed with their pinky on the grip itself. This I know would drive me mad! It's one of the reasons I have not opted for a battery grip either, it may mean I can spread my fingers further apart but I would definitely lose my precious pinky finger from sitting underneath the camera lol. (but if you study the RC Mini plate it extends forward and is a thinner piece of metal that extends out, I'm hoping it kinda is out of the way, and is one of the reasons I am kinda put off from other straight flat flash brackets).

The bracket you have actually looks ok, better than half of the other ones I have seen out there! But I really feel as tho a flat bracket + ball head combo is the best way to go, so much more versatile, easier, less bulk/weight and even better for macro work etc!
Perhaps it comes down to an issue of flash brackets and not that the flash is not in the hotshoe so much? Not all flash brackets are made equally perhaps? Some are just better and feel better than others? Certainly I have read reviews of people whom have used a flash bracket more akin to yours (one with an arm) and then also one that rotates the camera and a few have said that they are a PIA and that a simple flat bracket is much better (without a massive degradation to the user experience), basically they tried the rest and settled/most happiest with a simple flat bracket. I'm hoping I can save some $ and not make the same mistakes as them and go straight for the flat bracket too.

Right now I'm emailing Mike at Custom Brackets raising questions surrounding 'right hand pinky finger underneath camera' can it still be done with the Mini RC (lol) as well as can the bracket be mounted the other side (ie to the left and rear slightly), what impact this has etc. In portrait mode shooting it would mean I orientate with the shutter button towards the floor side so that the flash stays above the camera, but I think I could manage that setup if it meant I get a comfy right hand pinky landscape mode thing (which the majority of shots would be like you point out). I've also asked Mike if the anti twist screws can be removed and a SLIK ballhead replace where the cold shoe would normally go etc, so I'll wait back to hear from Mike before baking a decision.

I came across this flat bracket last night, looks much better, but it seems to be discontinued now

BP1 Paparazzi Bracket for all DSLRs and Mirrorless cameras (Canon, Nikon, Sony, Pentax etc...)

This one has more versatility to it, build it as you like, mount left or right etc and is Arcaswiss compatible.
07-05-2018, 03:04 PM   #19
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I think the quality of light that LeRolls achieves is really coming from the clever use of natural ight, the placement of the subject in relation to directional sunlight, and a kind of wrap-around natural light. The flash just lifts some shadows and adds some punch. I don't think the Magmod alone provides a nice soft light

It will be very difficult to replicate the "LeRolls" look in an event situation due to obstructions blocking the sun and restrictions on subject positioning. In some situations sure, but there's less freedom than out in open locations

I know you're quite committed to the bracket idea, I'm just puzzled really as to why you are so against the simple approach of a flash in the hotshoe. ? It seems to me that would be less to cope with and less to go wrong.

07-05-2018, 03:39 PM - 1 Like   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
I think the quality of light that LeRolls achieves is really coming from the clever use of natural ight, the placement of the subject in relation to directional sunlight, and a kind of wrap-around natural light. The flash just lifts some shadows and adds some punch. I don't think the Magmod alone provides a nice soft light

It will be very difficult to replicate the "LeRolls" look in an event situation due to obstructions blocking the sun and restrictions on subject positioning. In some situations sure, but there's less freedom than out in open locations

I know you're quite committed to the bracket idea, I'm just puzzled really as to why you are so against the simple approach of a flash in the hotshoe. ? It seems to me that would be less to cope with and less to go wrong.
LeRolls does indeed use the flash to add some subtle punch and lift shadows, most of his work is completed during the golden hour. It's quite effective and what I deem to be the ideal use of flash, subtle and not obvious, imo diffusers assist in creating this look I can link you a few examples of my own to show this;


HSS, lift shadows from face/racoon eyes from stong Australian Sun. Fong diffuser used.


Golden Hour, use of flash to add punch and separation to the people from the background, but subtly so. Fong Diffuser used.


More of the same as above.


HSS, Punch subject out more.


Assist with lifting shadows under umbrella.


You get the idea. Diffusers and outdoors are great! LeRolls used to use a Fong, now a Magmod, where he goes I follow
Perhaps you feel the need for them ranks lower as you already have that lovely natural diffuser called the 'cloud' that you Brits are so privy to get

But the Fong was a tad annoying with the 'on/off/where's the dome bit' kinda thing. The Magmod really feels premium and I love that I can quickly remove a sphere or bounce segment and use the flash bare should I be indoors etc. I can squish the head that I took off and stuff in a pouch, the hard dome section of the fong was quite annoying of where to put, and the velcro attach mechanism slow and cumbersome to take on and off. I typically left it on but then it didn't really fit well in a pouch or anything, I was literally carrying a backpack sling just for a flash to go in... and did I mention my poor back? (not that the flash weighs much, but it was just another annoying thing on my person when already I was like Batman with my utility belt!

Really, at the end of the day I invested in the Cactus System, I want to use it, and I cannot really go into an event ferrying around a lightstand + RF60 attached, + a V6ii trigger + a Metz 44 in the hotshoe of my camera, switching Magmods around on different flash heads, have a billion primes to juggle (ok that part is all my fault lol, I really should invest in a zoom, but man I love my primes!). I get a far easier streamlined and more versatile approach sticking to one flash that can be both near and far off the camera. My Light stand is a tripod it folds up real swell, another +1 on portability. Carrying around 2 flashes and juggling what goes where and what sits in the hotshoe of the K-1 at different times of the day is a recipe for disaster. Something will get misplaced. Far easier to stick the trigger on the camera always and use a bracket.
The secret really lies on how well the flash can be taken on/off the bracket imo. If it's a quick lever system then I think that will work swell, not to mention when I do go to portrait mode shooting I get a better more versatile lighting experience.
07-05-2018, 04:01 PM   #21
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I like those shots Bruce, they are a nice mix between flash and ambient lighting. Good luck with getting everything assembled, I do hope it works out and proves to be an efficient way to manage the flash during the events you're planning to shoot.
07-05-2018, 04:58 PM   #22
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You know the cactus system better than I, do you foresee a communication problem withthe kind of short range distances proposed by the bracket? That's something im wanting to test either tonight or over the weekend as to date all my testing has been done with a fair bit of distance between the trigger and flash.
07-05-2018, 08:52 PM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
You know the cactus system better than I, do you foresee a communication problem withthe kind of short range distances proposed by the bracket?
You may have noticed that most product shots showing flash on bracket have the flash sync'ed using a cord from the hot shoe. The V6ii is overkill unless there are off-camera flashes used in cooperation with the on-camera(bracket) flash.


Steve

07-05-2018, 10:27 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
You may have noticed that most product shots showing flash on bracket have the flash sync'ed using a cord from the hot shoe. The V6ii is overkill unless there are off-camera flashes used in cooperation with the on-camera(bracket) flash.


Steve
I have indeed. Overkill? Not sure I'd say that, it's just a different way of communication. Do we call wireless transferring of files from our phones overkill when the phone is sitting on the office table next to the computer? Or how about wireless charging of our phones?
In fact, a lot of the complaints and comments surrounding flash brackets are made in regards to the coils and cables, either what to do about them, which one is shorter and better or just that they're a PIA! I much prefer the idea of communicating wireless, it's just a matter of whether it works well or not.
07-06-2018, 12:44 AM   #25
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I skimmed the thread. Probably missed stuff. I gather you don't have at least the v6ii because it has a hot shoe on it. You can put your flash directly on top with your modifier and see if you like it. So you don't need a bracket if its only to quickly move the flash from on camera to off camera.
07-06-2018, 12:59 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
I skimmed the thread. Probably missed stuff. I gather you don't have at least the v6ii because it has a hot shoe on it. You can put your flash directly on top with your modifier and see if you like it. So you don't need a bracket if its only to quickly move the flash from on camera to off camera.
I'm told doing so doesn't actually oddly enough support P-TTL (or TTL?)... weird, hence why you would separate the two so that you get full features.
07-06-2018, 01:06 AM   #27
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The v6 supports pttl if you enable shoot through. Hold button for 2 seconds. Can't believe the v6ii got rid of that or why even have a hot shoe on top.
07-06-2018, 01:13 AM   #28
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You can use TTL in "passthrough" now, with the X-TTL firmware, using a dedicated system flash (P-TTL type) ..... But I wouldn't recommend shooting an event with the flash on top of the V6II. It's unwieldy and puts pressure on the contacts.

Last edited by mcgregni; 07-06-2018 at 02:11 AM.
07-06-2018, 01:16 AM   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
The v6 supports pttl if you enable shoot through. Hold button for 2 seconds. Can't believe the v6ii got rid of that or why even have a hot shoe on top.
Thanks, I will look into that. I'll admit I haven't had my Cactus set that long, I have a job in 2 weeks that I am trying to prepare for (hence this post). In the run up to waiting for the bracket to arrive (USA>Australia most likely) I was going to do some more research and testing.
My current weirdness feature of my Cactus that I haven't had with any other flash is outlined and detailed here; A Banding Affect in Av (automatic exposure) Modes? ? Cactus Community

I was actually under the impression that with version two of the V6 they did remove that 'shoot through' feature, but I could be wrong...

---------- Post added 07-06-18 at 06:21 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
You can use TTL in "passthrough" now, with the X-TTL firmware ..... But I wouldn't recommend shooting an event with the flash on top of the V6II. It's unwieldy and puts pressure on the contacts.
So I think I'm currently running the latest Pentax firmware (I dled the whole Firmware updater thing and selected Pentax etc). Does this mean that you can do the 'passthrough/shootthrough' thing if you select a different firmware? But then when you want to dismount the RF60x from the V6ii it would no longer work to it's proper capabilities till you returned to a PC and changed the firmware back to Pentax? If that's true that's pretty bad lol...

But I agree with the whole stacking hotshoe thing, I don't like the contact things at all, I'm sure the vello cable I had would get bad contact with the contacts occasionally, a bit a gentle thump and all of a sudden I can HSS whereas before I couldn't! (this happened multiple times). Honestly I think the hotshoe tech needs to be replaced with something better...
Anyway, it's one of the reasons I cashed in a flash and replaced with a RF60x to minimise 'stacking' (ie use a V6ii as a receiver). It may be unavoidable with certain light setups, but where possible I want to avoid it.
07-06-2018, 02:10 AM - 2 Likes   #30
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Just to clarify, the TTL passthrough applies to a P-TTL dedicated system flash, not the RF60x. The RF60x can only provide TTL when operating as a radio slave, controlled from the V6II, both with X-TTL firmware.
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