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07-06-2018, 03:54 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote

Wow, welcome to the discussion and thanks for such a detailed opinion of someone who has kinda been down this route that I am contemplating. I am intrigued to here you find the weight distribution awkward compared to flash up top, a lot of other reviewers and comments I see tend to suggest the opposite is true! This could be one of those personal preference things, for example I am actually talking with Mike from Custom Brackets right now, asking him very specific questions surrounding the Mini RC flash bracket because I like to shoot my K-1 with my right hand pinky finger tucked/curled up underneath the camera, touching the battery compartment. Every video I see of someone with a flash bracket has them pictured or videoed with their pinky on the grip itself. This I know would drive me mad! It's one of the reasons I have not opted for a battery grip either, it may mean I can spread my fingers further apart but I would definitely lose my precious pinky finger from sitting underneath the camera lol. (but if you study the RC Mini plate it extends forward and is a thinner piece of metal that extends out, I'm hoping it kinda is out of the way, and is one of the reasons I am kinda put off from other straight flat flash brackets).

Hello Bruce,
I agree that my bracket is medium quality, not a cheap chinesse but also not a premium bracket. I still like it, used it during 6 years and it's still working. About the weight distribution comparing flash on camera vs flash on bracket (I'm talking about my own bracket and experience): when I have my flash (metz 48 af-1, not a big flash really) on camera, all my 'mass' is more or less 'concentrated' and it's easier and more comfortable to handle; with the flash on top of the bracket, you have some mass on camera, then yoy have the bracket bar, plus cables, plus your flash away from your camera with the diffuser, etc. This 'mass distribution' is worse in my experience, you need more force/tension on your right hand/arm, and you get tired sooner. If you add a real grip for your left hand, the difference is greater, you have the weight distributed more or less evenly on both arms, mnore rested. This is my experience.

I've been looking at RC mini and promaster brackets, thanks for the links. The RC mini and BP1 are similar, but the BP1 seems better quality and configurable. If I had any, I used it just to put my trigger on the mini plate, flash on camera. The BP1 allows several configurations, one put the flash at the side of the lens and slightly above. I suppose that the distance is safe so you can't see the flash on the frame and also you don't cast the len's shadow on the frame. The HB70QR is a nice extra grip... I really liked the promaster gear, not cheap, but can be a good solution for me.



Thanks for your sample pics on the outside, I liked it.

About the comments related to put a flash on top of the V6-II, I agree with mcgregni, not a good idea, also, the RF60x is not a 'real' P-TTL flash so TTL-passthrough will not work.

Finally, do you know the Lumopro LP605S stand? It's light, foldable and has spikes so you can put on the ground safely when there is wind. I lost an umbrella and get some damage on my AD360 because a windy day, experience learned .

Good luck on your next job,
Javier.


Last edited by morenjavi; 07-06-2018 at 07:11 AM. Reason: Spelling :S
07-06-2018, 05:06 AM   #32
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
Thanks for the product and setup shots. Your solution with the small ballhead is very clever.


Steve
Sorry, missed this. But yeah I can't take real credit, I saw the Youtube (Angry photographer or whatever, linked earlier in the thread) first, that prompted the idea, I was really questioning the whole necessity to have the arm sections and flash up quite high.
And then of course noticed another company doing a ball head thing too (linked earlier), so it's a thing just not very common place so it seems...

QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
RE bounce with the MagMod MagSphere for portrait orientation...

As with most other speedlights, the head swivels, no special brackets required. I don't know if MagMod recommends the sphere for non-bounce use, but its roundness might help there as well.


Steve
The kit I have comes with a MagBounce, I think this is the one intended more for indoors.

QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
Hello Bruce,
I agree that my bracket is medium quality, not a cheap chinesse but also not a premium bracket. I still like it, used it during 6 years and it's still working. About the weight distribution comparing flash on camera vs flash on bracket (I'm talking about my own bracket and experience): when I have my flash (metz 48 af-1, not a big flash really) on camera, all my 'mass' is more or less 'concentrated' and it's easier and more comfortable to handle; with the flash on top of the bracket, you have some mass on camera, then yoy have the bracket bar, plus cables, plus your flash away from your camera with the diffuser, etc. This 'mass distribution' is worse in my experience, you need more force/tension on your right hand/arm, and you get tired sooner. If you add a real grip for your left hand, the difference is greater, you have the weight distributed more or less evenly on both arms, mnore rested. This is my experience.

I've been looking at RC mini and promaster brackets, thanks for the links. The RC mini and BP1 are similar, but the BP1 seems better quality and configurable. If I had any, I used it just to put my trigger on the mini plate, flash on camera. The BP1 allows several configurations, one put the flash at the side of the lens and slightly above. I suppose that the distance is safe so you can't see the flash on the frame and also you don't cast the len's shadow on the frame. The HB70QR is a nice extra grip... I really liked the promaster gear, not cheap, but can be a good solution for me.



Thanks for your sample pics on the outside, liked it.

About the comments related to put a flash on top of the V6-II, I agree with mcgregny, not a good idea, also, the RF60x is not a 'real' P-TTL flash so

TLL-passthough will not work.

Finally, did you know the Lumopro LP605S stand? It's light, foldable and has spikes so you can put on the ground safely when there is wind. I lost an umbrella and get some damage on my AD360 because a windy day, experience learned .

Good luck on your next job,
Javier.
Didn't know about the lightstands with hooks, cool idea, will put that in the brain vault!

I agree that the promedia brackets looks better than the RC Mini, it's always better to have config options, sadly it seems to be discontinued with no successive release! :'(
(and thanks again for more detailed feedback regarding the weight distribution aspect).
07-06-2018, 05:52 AM - 1 Like   #33
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I have tested now, with the RF60x held close to the V6II on the camera .....I held the flash just an inch or 2 from the trigger, also beside the camera just like on a bracket. Glad to say it was 100% reliable. I tested in TTL and M modes, also flash head zooming. All exposure and zoom adjustments had an instant and accurate response, so no concerns about comms at such close range.

I believe this is consistent with a previous report from ClassA about this behaviour, so I would be very confident that you should not have comms issues using a bracket.

This is ot course with the Short Range setting on the V6II. I actually leave mine permanently on Short Range, and I work up to 5-6 metres rom my flashes, with no issues. So Bruce, you may not have to switch out of Short Range at all.
07-06-2018, 05:54 PM - 1 Like   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
I have tested now, with the RF60x held close to the V6II on the camera .....I held the flash just an inch or 2 from the trigger, also beside the camera just like on a bracket. Glad to say it was 100% reliable. I tested in TTL and M modes, also flash head zooming. All exposure and zoom adjustments had an instant and accurate response, so no concerns about comms at such close range.

I believe this is consistent with a previous report from ClassA about this behaviour, so I would be very confident that you should not have comms issues using a bracket.

This is ot course with the Short Range setting on the V6II. I actually leave mine permanently on Short Range, and I work up to 5-6 metres rom my flashes, with no issues. So Bruce, you may not have to switch out of Short Range at all.
Hey that's good to hear, one lest thing I should need to test this weekend

I asked a question on the B&H website about the Customs RC Mini bracket that I got a reply to (6th question down surrounding the ball & head). Basically there is a small 'lip' that is raised that might interfere with getting a flush contact with a SLIK ball&head adapter. I might have to file the lip down or raise the ball&head slightly, as well as possibly sourcing a longer screw.

This whole premise has made me question so many things about how I shoot currently, even right down to my grip. I don't user a battery grip but when I shoot my right hand sees my pinky finger curled underneath the camera, kinda sitting on top of the battery compartment. I really cannot see me ever being comfortable to shoot with my pinky sitting on the grip (like how I have seen most reviewers demonstrate this bracket)... I guess it's one of those things I'll just find out after I take the plunge and order it.

I did find this video where the reviewer pans the camera upside down to show how the bracket fits, it does look like I would still have room for my pinky to sit curled up on the bottom ontop of the battery compartment (tho this is the older style Mini RC plate, not the exactly the same one as seen available to purchase now);

Custom Brackets CB Mini Profi - by www.enjoyyourcamera.com - YouTube

07-06-2018, 08:15 PM   #35
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Jusy gave a like because its something i would think about but is something I would overthink.
07-06-2018, 11:18 PM   #36
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QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
Jusy gave a like because its something i would think about but is something I would overthink.
Don't worry, I am overthinking it all for you so you don't have to
07-08-2018, 12:09 PM   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Don't worry, I am overthinking it all for you so you don't have to
Right! And thanks! I was just thinking that I would never go through all this but I am glad to be part of a community where there are people like you and the others in the thread who will do it. It is worth learning about even if I do not plan to do it myself.
07-08-2018, 02:51 PM   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mikesul Quote
Right! And thanks! I was just thinking that I would never go through all this but I am glad to be part of a community where there are people like you and the others in the thread who will do it. It is worth learning about even if I do not plan to do it myself.
Well, I have ordered the Custom Bracket Mini RC and a small SLIK Tabeltop Tripod (the head on it's own is $25, so the tripod is $10 essentially, and I don't have a small table top tripod in my collection so thought what the heck and just grabbed that as well).
I already have that ball head from when I got a gun metal mini SLIK tripod, so I know it's more than adequate to handle the weight of a speedlight and modifier, i'm hoping the black one will aesthetically blend in better with the black custom bracket plate.

I'll update everyone on how it all goes


On a sideline, how are people finding tripod heads and their 'load capacity', I mean are we finding them accurate, on the conservative side, do people exceed them often? I noted for example that the SLIK SBH-100DQ head (the one I have and second one ordered) is actually stated to support two different load capacities on two different support pages, 3.5lbs (1.6kg) and 4.5lbs (2kgs). I placed my K-1 with Samyang 85 (my heaviest lens) and a v6ii trigger up top, came to 1.7kgs and the tripod head felt extremely sturdy, like it could take double that weight! I'd be more worried about a tripod tipping over than the head failing, I obviously don't do the kind of photography where serious weight and support is an issue (i.e. arca swiss plates and clamps and the heads that support that style of system).

07-08-2018, 06:44 PM - 1 Like   #39
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Another thing from what I am reading is multiple people continue to report back that having the flash situated more to the right than sitting on top feels a lot better, a better balanced set up as well. I can totally understand that, personally i hate having the flash in a hotshoe, and it's the least preferred place to be if shooting portrait mode as well.
This.

I'm a 100% with you on hating a flash mounted to the hot-shoe of my camera. It is just too much weight in the wrong place. The centre of gravity is too high and every bit of tilt exerts force on one's camera holding wrist. The worst angle is the 90į rotation one needs for portrait shots.

Personally, I would have gotten a flash bracket with a grip as that helps to handle the heavy camera/flash combination.

BTW, if someone is really keen on the "on-camera" mounting but still wants to use an RF60X with full P-TTL HSS support, it should be possible to place the RF60X on top of an on-camera V6II and using a bit of paper or electrical tape to isolate the centre pin of the RF60X from the camera's hot-shoe. However, this arrangement puts the flash even higher up and worsens the ergonomics even more compared to plain on-camera flash.
07-09-2018, 02:30 AM   #40
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I use the battery grip with my camera, one of the main advantages being better handling and security with a hot shoe mounted flash (and flag) in vertical orientation. The grip means I have full control with the right hand, with the controls exactly laid out as for landscape, plus a firm hold with just the right hand. However, I agree that the weight distribution is poorer with the flash out at 90deg ....but, a quick readjustment of the left hand support technique sorts it out. I simply move my thumb back , widening the stretch of my left hand, to give support at the base of the flash as well as on the lens.

Like most things it gets quick and easy with practice. My main points earlier were concern that too much focus on brackets and extra hardware would take time away from the main priority, which is to get good looking flash images with reliable exposure control and consistent, repeatable results. I am sure that also with practice, Bruce will learn to handle the equipment efficiently with the bracket, but ultimately I don’t feel it is worth the effort ....this is because it doesn’t impact on the actual quality of light, because the modifier will not be far off the lens axis anyway (its not like LeRolls with his Vello cable).

But as I said on another thread yesterday, I look forward to being proven wrong! Over to you Bruce and your upcoming event .....good luck, and I’m sure everyone looks forward to seeing some pics!
07-09-2018, 04:48 AM - 1 Like   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
This.

I'm a 100% with you on hating a flash mounted to the hot-shoe of my camera. It is just too much weight in the wrong place. The centre of gravity is too high and every bit of tilt exerts force on one's camera holding wrist. The worst angle is the 90į rotation one needs for portrait shots.

Personally, I would have gotten a flash bracket with a grip as that helps to handle the heavy camera/flash combination.

BTW, if someone is really keen on the "on-camera" mounting but still wants to use an RF60X with full P-TTL HSS support, it should be possible to place the RF60X on top of an on-camera V6II and using a bit of paper or electrical tape to isolate the centre pin of the RF60X from the camera's hot-shoe. However, this arrangement puts the flash even higher up and worsens the ergonomics even more compared to plain on-camera flash.
I dithered about the grip but how I operate my camera is to have my right hand on the camera grip/shutter button and other hand on the lens, usually because I have MF. I'm not sure having a grip would really help me, but it might be one of those things that you don't know till you try!

I wonder if you can customise the custom bracket (hehe), I mean you could get one of these Vello Replacement Foam Covering for CB-100 Bracket CB-RF B&H and then a tabletop tripod through the middle


QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
I use the battery grip with my camera, one of the main advantages being better handling and security with a hot shoe mounted flash (and flag) in vertical orientation. The grip means I have full control with the right hand, with the controls exactly laid out as for landscape, plus a firm hold with just the right hand. However, I agree that the weight distribution is poorer with the flash out at 90deg ....but, a quick readjustment of the left hand support technique sorts it out. I simply move my thumb back , widening the stretch of my left hand, to give support at the base of the flash as well as on the lens.

Like most things it gets quick and easy with practice. My main points earlier were concern that too much focus on brackets and extra hardware would take time away from the main priority, which is to get good looking flash images with reliable exposure control and consistent, repeatable results. I am sure that also with practice, Bruce will learn to handle the equipment efficiently with the bracket, but ultimately I donít feel it is worth the effort ....this is because it doesnít impact on the actual quality of light, because the modifier will not be far off the lens axis anyway (its not like LeRolls with his Vello cable).

But as I said on another thread yesterday, I look forward to being proven wrong! Over to you Bruce and your upcoming event .....good luck, and Iím sure everyone looks forward to seeing some pics!
Ah but it could be! Because I am venturing down the v6ii trigger and QR plate system for docking with the flash bracket! I can take it off and extend my arm out holding the flash and get those shots if sitting on the bracket is not producing the desired results i.e. a LeRolls Vello cable shot without the cable
The only difference here is that I am using MF glass a lot (not a FA85), so either I focus roughly and move myself to take the shot or use a AF lens.

Actually tho, on a serious note I was watching a magmod video (talking about the difference of the sphere and bounce attachments) and the presenter was talking about how he often likes having the flash mounted on a monopod and the assistant holding it, he then mentioned that he sometimes sticks the monopod in his pocket (with flash and modifier) and lets it swing out away from him to the side for some shots so that the flash is far off to the left of him! Wth! ahaha, he never showed this technique or demonstrated it but I did think it was pretty clever. Clearly we need to make a monopod holding vest that allows the user to stick a monopod on his back, like how you store a sword, and extend the pod out when you need those flash shots from above
07-09-2018, 08:04 AM - 1 Like   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Clearly we need to make a monopod holding vest that allows the user to stick a monopod on his back, like how you store a sword, and extend the pod out when you need those flash shots from above
Good idea, except that one monopod sticking out is clearly insufficient.

We need the "Hydra", featuring nine rods, each equipped with a flash, telescoping out when so required.
07-09-2018, 08:57 AM - 1 Like   #43
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Oh no, don't give him any more ideas! Let Bruce get through his next event first.
07-09-2018, 06:37 PM - 2 Likes   #44
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Don't laugh. I have used a steady stick with a flash in this way. The main problem is that it tends to twist and not point where you want it. I ran it up under my shirt to help stabalize it.
07-10-2018, 02:46 PM - 1 Like   #45
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Oh no, don't give him any more ideas! Let Bruce get through his next event first.
QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
Don't laugh. I have used a steady stick with a flash in this way. The main problem is that it tends to twist and not point where you want it. I ran it up under my shirt to help stabalize it.
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