[Class A]

Yesterday, Godox posted the AD600/AD600B v2.6 (download link), AD600M/AD600BM v1.9 (download link), and AD600 Pro v1.3 (download link) updates to include Pentax compatibility.

Cool.

I'm a bit surprised that firmware updates are necessary at all since the XPro-P could have potentially converted all "P-TTL"-speak into Godox-speak, but perhaps there are new timing requirements that mandated an upgrade of the Godox protocol.

I'm wondering how one could integrate an existing radio system (e.g. from Cactus) without using trigger stacking. The XPro-P does not seem to be compatible with any receiver which one could connect to a trigger of another radio system via a sync-cable. Is trigger stacking really the only option if one wants the XPro-P on the camera?

[inkista]

... I'm wondering how one could integrate an existing radio system (e.g. from Cactus) without using trigger stacking. The XPro-P does not seem to be compatible with any receiver which one could connect to a trigger of another radio system via a sync-cable. Is trigger stacking really the only option if one wants the XPro-P on the camera?

The Godox X system does have TTL/HSS standalone receiver units, the X1R, but at this time, they're only available for Canon, Nikon, and Sony. And they're possibly one of the buggiest pieces of the system. They also don't do the cross-brand TTL switching that the built-in triggers on the Godox lights do. It may be that Godox simply prefers forcing users to purchase more Godox flashes for the built-in transceivers/receivers than improving the X1 receiver. :/

It tends to be more of an all or nothing switch when it comes to Godox.

In addition, the X1T transmitter is the only unit to have a hotshoe up top, but as near as can be sussed by some of the folks on POTN, that hotshoe is not actually a passthrough hotshoe, but is an RF slave in Group A, which means stacking on a Godox X1T has caused issues with other TTL triggering systems. Your best bet is likely to be stacking the Xpro on top of a Cactus transceiver. And, of course, at this time, they haven't announced an X1T-P transmitter is even in the works. The XPro may be seen by them as a replacement, but it weirdly is missing a few features the X1T has, such as a single-pin mode and timing adjustments for tail sync (aka hypersync, supersync, overdrive sync, etc.), and of course, a hotshoe.

[jolepo]

The distribution of the Godox XPRO-P transmitter is good news but, while Godox does not provide a receiver like the X1R (it has them for Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Fuji), it will not be possible to fire a TTL Pentax or other brand (for Shanny example). It is not clear that Godox is going to manufacture an X1R for Pentax so, in my case, the XPRO-P will not do me any good. A pity because we will only continue with the Cactus V6 II option.

[inkista]

The distribution of the Godox XPRO-P transmitter is good news but, while Godox does not provide a receiver like the X1R (it has them for Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Fuji),...

Actually, only Canon, Nikon, and Sony. Olympus and Fuji users are in the same boat as you guys in terms of integrating existing TTL flashes. As I said, folks who go Godox tend to dump the legacy gear and go for Godox lights instead, because of the convenience of built-in triggers, and the better integration with the system (i.e., ability to cross-brand switch). If this isn't the path you want, then Cactus V6II is still probably the better fit as a system. If, however, you're the type of Cactus user who's thinking of dumping legacy TTL speedlights for the built-in trigger convenience of the RF60/RF60X, and you're jonesing for monolights to control in concert with your speedlights, then maybe Godox is the better fit; especially if you'd also like to use the same flash on-camera for event shooting. Personal usage and preferences plays a huge part on whether Godox is for you.

Also, Sony users had to wait for something like 18 months from the introduction of the X1T-S until the arrival of the X1R-S. Just because there aren't any X1R-O, X1R-F, or X1R-P units today doesn't mean they'll never be any. But the lack of them does mean Godox gets to sell a lot more of their speedlights, so they're unlikely to rush to produce those units.

The introduction of the Xpro-P is just the start. What we hope happens next are announcements for TT685-P and V860II-P speedlights. That would indicate more wholehearted support for Pentax shooters, rather than possibly just trying to get the studio shooters with 645Z bodies who are considering AD600s to buy in [grin].

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Last edited by inkista; 09-05-2018 at 12:15 PM.

[jolepo]

The distribution of the Godox XPRO-P transmitter is good news but, while Godox does not provide a receiver like the X1R (it has them for Nikon, Canon, Olympus, Fuji), it will not be possible to fire a TTL Pentax or other brand (for Shanny example). It is not clear that Godox is going to manufacture an X1R for Pentax so, in my case, the XPRO-P will not do me any good. A pity because we will only continue with the Cactus V6 II option.

After thinking about it and calculating the cost of the two options (Cactus or Godox), I think I have to change my option ...
In my case I have a flash Shanny SN600FGZ (P-TTL and HSS in the camera shoe) and a Yongnuo YN560 IV (powerful but totally manual). The Shanny flash fires separate from the camera with a P-TTL Meike PT-01 cable, retaining all TTL values. Yongnuo, as slave S2, shoots when he sees Shanny's light.
If I opt for the Cactus option, the best price I can find for 2 units of Cactus V6 II is about € 150. This would allow me to have Shanny flash (P-TTL and HSS) connected to a V6 and the other V6 to the camera. The Yongnuo can shoot as slave S2. Even if I want to use HSS (the Yongnuo does not have this option) I can simulate it by shooting this flash at the maximum power (1/1) in slave mode S2: taking advantage of the duration of the flame is 1 / 200s is sufficient to illuminate the photo without dark bands.
If I opt for the Godox option, the best price I can find for the new XPRO-P transmitter is € 70. Since I do not have any flash that is activated with the signal emitted by the XPRO-P from the camera, I should buy a Godox, for example the economic TT600 that is capable of responding to the wireless signal of the XPRO-P and has a good power and HSS. This flash I can find for € 70. So the total of the Godox option would be € 140. This would allow me to use the Godox flash (P-TTL and HSS) separated from the camera. The Yongnuo and the Shanny can be shot as slaves S2. Even if I want to use HSS (the Yongnuo does not have this option and the Shanny either when it's out of the camera) I can simulate it by firing these flashes at the maximum power (1/1) in slave mode S2: taking advantage of the length of Flame is 1 / 200s is enough to illuminate the photo without dark bands.
CONCLUSION: It is possible that, in my case, the best option is Godox, because it is cheaper and, in the event that I wanted to expand my lighting system with more flash drives, I could always buy the cheap Godox TT600 that brings the built-in Godox receiver.

[mcgregni]

Regarding the flashes you would be firing at max power in order to provide a "hypersync" type illumination beyond the max sync ..... What steps would you have to take in order to control the exposure value recorded from those flashes? You must consider that we assume you are wanting to maintain a wide aperture in bright sun (thats why you need to shoot beyond max sync, right?).

So what options will you have remaining to keep the EV of those flashes under control. I suspect that in a multi-flash set-up it will all too easily become a cumbersome, tiresome juggling act.

Is that really worth the saving? If you are wanting regular "HSS" type working, perhaps selling the non HSS flashes and getting ones dedicated to the purpose would be better? Eg, the Cactus RR60x is a good value choice, considering it offers Radio P-TTL/ HSS, plus manual HSS, and with the built in receiver you only need one V6II.

[Class A]

When the TT600 was announced, it only supported HSS but no TTL. If you want TTL make sure that the current TT600 version supports P-TTL in conjunction with the XPro-P.

You may have to go for a TT685 and this model hasn't received a firmware update yet to make it Pentax compatible.

[Class A]

So what options will you have remaining to keep the EV of those flashes under control.

To be fair, when using HSS outdoors it is not unusual to be at full power with a speedlight anyhow.

However, HyperSync does not provide even illumination across the frame and one has to manage it manually. I'm not sure whether using HyperSync would work by triggering off the pre-flash of another HSS-operated flash. I'd be sceptical about that unless there is a way to control the HyperSync timing.

What I most like about equipment that supports HSS well is that I don't have to concern myself with it. It transitions into using HSS versus not using it depending on shutter speed without requiring me to do anything. I've used hacks to use HSS with the V6 and it worked and got me results, but I always had to concern myself with the technology for a while before I could turn my mind to the model, composition, etc.

AFAIC, the advantages of gear that seamlessly supports special modes goes beyond convenience.

[inkista]

When the TT600 was announced, it only supported HSS but no TTL. If you want TTL make sure that the current TT600 version supports P-TTL in conjunction with the XPro-P....

No need. The TT600 is manual-only and does not do TTL; there's only one version (okay, there's a TT600-S Sony variant that exists because Sony's MI hotshoe can block the ground connection with a standard ISO-compatible flash but it's only a physical difference; still a single-pin manual-only flash) and it is not firmware upgradeable. Ditto its li-on version, the V850II.

...You may have to go for a TT685 and this model hasn't received a firmware update yet to make it Pentax compatible.

And a TT685-P hasn't yet been announced. Even if the firmware updates do arrive for the other (non-P) TT685 models, they'll only be TTL/HSS as off-camera radio slaves, not as on-camera speedlights. Whatever Godox device goes on a camera hotshoe has to be have the right "flavor" foot to communicate TTL/HSS directly with the camera. So for Pentax, that means -P versions of the gear.

[Class A]

No need. The TT600 is manual-only and does not do TTL;

Thanks for your input as usual, but I'm not sure about the "No need" bit.

I guess you mean there is no need to check that the TT600 supports TTL as it is clear that it does not.
This, however, means that jolepo's assumption about the TT600 supporting P-TTL was wrong.

And a TT685-P hasn't yet been announced.

OK, so that's even worse if it means that the non-Pentax specific versions won't be able to operate as a P-TTL flash after a firmware update when used as off-camera flashes. I'd find it surprising, though, if that were the case.

I just went with which flash models are specified by Godox to be compatible with the XPro-P.

[inkista]

Thanks for your input as usual, but I'm not sure about the "No need" bit.

I guess you mean there is no need to check that the TT600 supports TTL as it is clear that it does not.
This, however, means that jolepo's assumption about the TT600 supporting P-TTL was wrong.

Yes, on both counts.

OK, so that's even worse if it means that the non-Pentax specific versions won't be able to operate as a P-TTL flash after a firmware update when used as off-camera flashes.

No. What I thought I said was that if it's a TT685-C/-N/-S/-O/-F, it can't operate as a P-TTL flash on-camera, even after the firmware update, because the flash foot pins won't match the camera hotshoe contacts.

But the TT685-C/-N/-S/-O/-F should be able to do P-TTL/HSS to an XPro-P as an off-camera slave after the firmware update.

Same goes, of course for the V860II-C/-N/-S/-O/-F.

[jolepo]

After thinking about it and calculating the cost of the two options (Cactus or Godox), I think I have to change my option ...
In my case I have a flash Shanny SN600FGZ (P-TTL and HSS in the camera shoe) and a Yongnuo YN560 IV (powerful but totally manual). The Shanny flash fires separate from the camera with a P-TTL Meike PT-01 cable, retaining all TTL values. Yongnuo, as slave S2, shoots when he sees Shanny's light.
If I opt for the Cactus option, the best price I can find for 2 units of Cactus V6 II is about € 150. This would allow me to have Shanny flash (P-TTL and HSS) connected to a V6 and the other V6 to the camera. The Yongnuo can shoot as slave S2. Even if I want to use HSS (the Yongnuo does not have this option) I can simulate it by shooting this flash at the maximum power (1/1) in slave mode S2: taking advantage of the duration of the flame is 1 / 200s is sufficient to illuminate the photo without dark bands.
If I opt for the Godox option, the best price I can find for the new XPRO-P transmitter is € 70. Since I do not have any flash that is activated with the signal emitted by the XPRO-P from the camera, I should buy a Godox, for example the economic TT600 that is capable of responding to the wireless signal of the XPRO-P and has a good power and HSS. This flash I can find for € 70. So the total of the Godox option would be € 140. This would allow me to use the Godox flash (P-TTL and HSS) separated from the camera. The Yongnuo and the Shanny can be shot as slaves S2. Even if I want to use HSS (the Yongnuo does not have this option and the Shanny either when it's out of the camera) I can simulate it by firing these flashes at the maximum power (1/1) in slave mode S2: taking advantage of the length of Flame is 1 / 200s is enough to illuminate the photo without dark bands.
CONCLUSION: It is possible that, in my case, the best option is Godox, because it is cheaper and, in the event that I wanted to expand my lighting system with more flash drives, I could always buy the cheap Godox TT600 that brings the built-in Godox receiver.

After my publication, mcgregni, Class A and inkista have published a series of very clear opinions that open a scenario different from what I had planned.
Buying a single Cactus V6 II, placing it on the Pentax KP and stacking the P-TTL Meike PT-01 cable (which transfers all TTL information) on the V6 II, I can install the Shanny SN600FGZ flash on the other end of the P-TTL cable, thus retaining all P-TTL and HSS power of this flash.
The Cactus V6 II has a cost (in my country) of about € 95.
This configuration would allow the Shanny a bit separate from the camera (the distance that the cable allows) with all P-TTL and HSS power.
Additionally, the Yongnuo 560 IV flash (totally manual) I can use it in slave mode S2, as I said in my publication, with the option to simulate HiperSync / PowerSync by configuring it at the maximum power (1/1).
If it were necessary to separate the Shanny much more from the camera, the P-TTL Meike cable should be replaced by another Cactus V6 II, which would be placed at the base of the Shanny (which would retain all P-TTL and HSS power) . The cost, another € 95.
For a future enlargement of the lighting system, it would only be necessary to buy a Cactus RF60X that would receive the Cactus V6 II signal, installed in the camera's shoe. In my country, an RF60X costs about € 150.
mcgregni, CLass A and inkista, thank you very much for your posts!

[mcgregni]

I'm afraid I don't think you can use a cable in that way .... The Shanny flash requires Radio P-TTL communications to function fully off camera when controlled by a V6II. Therefore you would need two V6IIs, one on the Shanny as receiver. That's why I was advocating moving to flashes with in built receivers, such as the RF60x.

However, the Shanny makes sense if you also need an on camera P-TTL option ...

If you are content with the restrictions of an extension cords length, then the cord uses adaptors to connect directly to the hotshoes on the camera and flash. There is no need for a radio trigger for this, so long as the cable is a full "P-TTL" cable. But the freedoms of Radio control are very liberating!!

[jolepo]

I'm afraid I don't think you can use a cable in that way .... The Shanny flash requires Radio P-TTL communications to function fully off camera when controlled by a V6II. Therefore you would need two V6IIs, one on the Shanny as receiver. That's why I was advocating moving to flashes with in built receivers, such as the RF60x.

However, the Shanny makes sense if you also need an on camera P-TTL option ...

If you are content with the restrictions of an extension cords length, then the cord uses adaptors to connect directly to the hotshoes on the camera and flash. There is no need for a radio trigger for this, so long as the cable is a full "P-TTL" cable. But the freedoms of Radio control are very liberating!!

Totally agree!
I currently use Shanny connected to the camera with the cable (totally P-TTL) and it works correctly. True, there is the obvious limitation of mobility and for that reason I said in my publication that, if I want to separate the Shanny completely, I will need another V6 II. But while this does not happen I can continue using it with the cable.
Buying a single V6 II, stacking it on the camera shoe, and stacking the TTL cable (where the Shanny is connected) on the V6 II I have the option to buy an RF60X Cactus to expand the lighting system (P -TTL and HSS), without the need for a second V6 II, except in the case, which I have already said, that I need to completely separate Shanny from the camera.
Thanks!

[mcgregni]

No, I do not believe you will have P-TTL or HSS with a cable connection from the V6II to the Shanny .... Only basic triggering.