[BruceBanner]

***If you can't be bothered with the back story just skip to the *section below

So... after much deliberation I am thinking of skipping on the whole Godox V860ii speedlight units and heading straight for the AD200 (with the XproP trigger) along with a small Pentax (or Metz... or whatever) flash for the 'running and gunning' side of things.
This decision comes from the fact that once the XproP trigger is on the K-1, there is no other way to mount the V680ii flash to a flash bracket other than it's own hot shoe or using the plastic feet it comes with and using the metal tripod thread on that (and then mounting the flash into it's feet via the hotshoe). Urgh...

This is my current flash bracket, and I have attached the cactus feet onto it to try and imitate what the V680ii would be like;



Now imagine that on top of my ballhead swivel system, with a magboob (or magbounce) on top, or even if I did away with the ballhead that currently exists on the custom bracket and just mounted the flash onto the bracket via a hotshoe (or use the feet plate), it's still not ideal (I lose one of the major benefits of the flash bracket which is portrait mode shooting like this


(even this shot like this is not ideal, this is by no way a great way to shoot lol).

So yeah... I've been trying to think about the situations I shoot in where I am 'running and gunning' and really 9/10 times it's indoors, an evening reception or even my own home, with a magsphere on top of the flash to provide a nice omni direction light to assist with fill. HSS I don't need, because in those situations I will get something proper out like the AD200.

So then, I think I'll be doing away with the flash bracket and instead utilise the K-1 hotshoe and actually.... <gasp> put a flash in it!

Here's where things get interesting.

I have owned a FGX 540II and a Metz 44 AF-2, and I sold them both. No regrets here, they didn't really tick all my boxes, and when I decided to start to go ocf they weren't very useful and the funds I made on the sales helped fund my cactus v6ii and RF60x (which I'll be selling to fund a XproP and AD200).
The main issue with both of these flashes were size and weight, that in combination with a magboob or magbounce makes them really top heavy, with no lock for the orientation of the flash it was just a constant frustration. Factor in that weight and wobble on the hotshoe of the K-1 I was very concerned about the health of the K-1 hotshoe keeping up with this system.
But they both supported HSS, and that was handy, but really I never used HSS that much, and if I were it was more in the a 'modelling session' where there is an expected degree of setting up etc, it wasn't really 'candid' HSS.

And so this brings me to the idea of settling with a small 'indoor candid' flash, where HSS is probably not required. TTL could be handy however, but Manual power is definitely a must and hopefully one that allows for a good degree of increment changes. I don't know the terminology for this, but something similar to the cactus rf60x increments/steps (just not as powerful).

***So I'll list the things that I think I would appreciate in a small flash unit, I have no idea if such a product exists so perhaps I have to compromise somewhere.

1) Small & Light, probably only taking a couple of AA/AAA, not the kind of weight of 4 AA's etc.

2) TTL as well as Manual Mode (and a good degree of control over the power output)

3) The head MUST move, at least tilt so that I can have a magmod boob on it and decide if I want to fire it straight up to the ceiling or tilt down and fire directly ahead.

4) Rotation of the head is optional, one direction (to the right) might even be handy if I wanted to do a portrait shot (and fire the magboob directly up to the ceiling). I won't be doing much if any bounce off wall flash stuff, just simply up, ahead directly, and possibly it might be nice to pan the camera to portrait mode and tilt the head up towards the ceiling (but I can live without this I think).

5) Lock, or at least extremely stiff head, with a maggrip and magboob attached on a small head (even the large heads) when the boob is pointing directly up to the ceiling it would dip down all the time unless you swiveled the head right around so the hinge faced you, this would lesson that occurrence, but really a lock would be most ideal.

6) Optically triggered, or Slave mode... or whatever. What I mean is, I would like the ability of the XproP or the AD200 to set the flash off also, if that is at all possible, this would be handy in a studio setting, using AD200 as key light and the smaller flash as fill or rim light etc.

7) Can accept the Maggrip so that it can take a Magboob

There is no budget set on this, buying two is even a possibility (if they can fire each other off).

The failure of the V860ii being able to easily dock with my flash bracket has just made me question the whole nature of my 'running and gunning' need, do I need HSS? do I need massive power? Am I using it to light up a massive room, or just to help as a fill light and increase IQ. The latter is the answer.

So... does such a thingy exist?

[leekil]

There's this, but I'm not sure you can trigger it with something else, but you could use it as the trigger.

Pentax AF201FG

User Reviews

I think there are also a couple of 3rd-party small flashes.

[BruceBanner]

There's this, but I'm not sure you can trigger it with something else, but you could use it as the trigger.

Pentax AF201FG

User Reviews

I think there are also a couple of 3rd-party small flashes.

Yeah I was just 5mins ago looking at that one, gets decent reviews. It also has a tilt lock I think (or rather its always locked and you have to push the button to tilt it), that's a huge bonus for me if I plan to use it with a magsphere or other weighty modifier.

I'm kinda put off from the Manual 1/1 or 1/4 power only tho, it doesn't sound too flexible in power output from that regard, and no HSS.

Other flashes I'm currently researching is the yet to be released Godox TT350P (that does support HSS) as well as the Metz 400 (again does seem to support HSS too).

When I get more research done myself I will try and make some kind of table of comparisons to assist with some clarity for the thread.

[leekil]

There's a thread on the AF201FG referenced in one of the reviews here on the site. If you follow that link, there are a couple other small flashes referenced on previous pages, like the Metz 24-1 and a Yongou one, though the model number wasn't mentioned in the part of that thread I read.

[inkista]

In mirrorless there are four models that are constantly recommended for a small light flash: the Godox TT350/V350, the Meike MK320, the Nissin i40, and the Metz M-400.

The Meike and Nissin don't come in Pentax versions, so that leaves you with the TT350-P (V350-P isn't yet announced), and the Metz M-400. Both do TTL, both do HSS, both zoom from 24-105mm, and both do 1st and 2nd curtain. Both tilt 90º. Both are firmware upgradeable. No idea about locking.

The Metz uses 4xAA, has full 360º swivel and is more powerful (GN 40m vs. 36m), and has a video LED. It can do wireless P-TTL, but does not have built-in radio triggering.

The TT350 uses 2xAA, has 270º swivel (180º to the right, 90º to the left), and is missing a sync port, recycle beep, and external battery pack port. no "smart" optical, but the "dumb" optical S1/S2 modes are available. Built in 2.4GHz transceiver in Godox's X system, so you can also use it as the radio transmitter to control an AD200, if you want.

I think either the Metz or the Godox flash can do what you want, although they're both likely to have heads too small to use Magmods on them. But the TT350 comes with its own little omnibounce-style tupperware hat.

[BruceBanner]

In mirrorless there are four models that are constantly recommended for a small light flash: the Godox TT350/V350, the Meike MK320, the Nissin i40, and the Metz M-400.

The Meike and Nissin don't come in Pentax versions, so that leaves you with the TT350-P (V350-P isn't yet announced), and the Metz M-400. Both do TTL, both do HSS, both zoom from 24-105mm, and both do 1st and 2nd curtain. Both tilt 90º. Both are firmware upgradeable. No idea about locking.

The Metz uses 4xAA, has full 360º swivel and is more powerful (GN 40m vs. 36m), and has a video LED. It can do wireless P-TTL, but does not have built-in radio triggering.

The TT350 uses 2xAA, has 270º swivel (180º to the right, 90º to the left), and is missing a sync port, recycle beep, and external battery pack port. no "smart" optical, but the "dumb" optical S1/S2 modes are available. Built in 2.4GHz transceiver in Godox's X system, so you can also use it as the radio transmitter to control an AD200, if you want.

I think either the Metz or the Godox flash can do what you want, although they're both likely to have heads too small to use Magmods on them. But the TT350 comes with its own little omnibounce-style tupperware hat.

Thanks for that.

I saw the V350 the other day, looks like a successor to the TT350, shame it's not yet Pentax compatible, perhaps never will be, however Godox does seem to be moving in the direction of Pentax support of late which is hopeful. Part of me thinks I should hold off on getting a TT350, just because there could be a V350P in a few months time...
But I do need flash now... hmm... what to get indeed.

I think I am short listing these 3;

TT350P
Metz M400
Pentax AF 201FG

Currently the TT350P is kinda unattainable to me, it's still only 'recently announced' and any place I try to seek it from am looking at a long waiting time (eBay quoting mid Nov-January!)... It feels a little like the Godox XproP trigger, but even later to be released/in stock. So I am unlikely to get that one I think, just because it appears the turnaround time is too late and leaves me somewhat compromised. Part of me also really wants that lithium battery that the V350 has, if they produce a P version!

The AF 201 is cheaper than the M400, it's probably enough, and is lighter and more compact, however not as full featured as the Metz M400. I'm concerned however that the Metz is getting towards the heavy/bulky side of things, certainly the point of all this is to pretty much leave the the flash on the K-1 indefinitely and just toggle it on when indoors really. I wonder if the M400 will feel too much like a burden (compared to the AF 201FG).

The Maggrip itself is quite small (see attached picture), I actually think it will stretch and provide a good grip on any of these flash heads, I am just left wondering if the magnets on the grip are pushed far enough apart to take the attachments etc.

Fwiw I just did a post to illustrate the different effect of the modifiers on my current cactus RF60x, really the conclusion I am coming to is that ceiling bounce use no modifier, and if facing flash directly at subject then a magsphere can help. In essence worrying about using a magsphere and it tipping down when firing up at the ceiling isn't an issue, because it doesn't even generate as nice an effect like that anyway, if using it then just use it with the flash facing forward. Maggrids and Gels can be useful however, but again they don't weigh too much and you would typically be aiming them straight into the subject.

I guess my next question is if any of these can be optically triggered. Like... if I get a XproP and AD200 (which is a definite), when using that setup, can it trigger the AF 201 or M400 to fire (possibly use them as a rim light or fill light etc)?

Also, is there any way to decipher an approximation of power from these flashes from my cactus RF60x? Like if I am in manual mode and set my RF60x to 16+7 power, is that the same as these ones on full power etc?

[morenjavi]

I saw the V350 the other day, looks like a successor to the TT350, shame it's not yet Pentax compatible, perhaps never will be, however Godox does seem to be moving in the direction of Pentax support of late which is hopeful. Part of me thinks I should hold off on getting a TT350, just because there could be a V350P in a few months time...But I do need flash now... hmm... what to get indeed.

I know this will not help you much, but I think the same about the V350P. I saw the V350 series just after sending my post. Godox says that the TT350 and V350 are the same flash but with different batteries. I prefer the lithium battery. In my case, I'm not in a hurry now and I can wait. My hope is that Godox will develop the V350P finally, but when ?

---------- Post added 12-10-18 at 03:00 PM ----------

I guess my next question is if any of these can be optically triggered. Like... if I get a XproP and AD200 (which is a definite), when using that setup, can it trigger the AF 201 or M400 to fire (possibly use them as a rim light or fill light etc)?

I think that a solution to fire your AD200 with the XproP and, at the same time fire another (no Godox flash) is to stack the XproP on your V6 II, and to get another V6/V6 II to control the AF201G (maybe you have more that one V6). I'm not sure if the V6 I/II supports the AF201G (that is, to control power, you'll allways be able to fire it).

I use a setup that works for me and it's similar to what I understand you want. I still don't have the XproP, so I use the XProC.

I have an old but nice Nikon SB-28, my dear V6 II and also a V6 (mk I).

So I stack my XproC with the V6 II, and put the V6II on camera.
Then I put the sb-28 (TTL mode) on my V6, with the correct profile.
I configure V6 & V6 II with the same channel and 'A' group.
This way I can fire my AD200 or my other Godox flashes and, at the same time, fire and control the sb-28 just pressing the 'A' button on my V6 II.

If you want also to get HSS at the same time it's more complicated. In my case I can only get 'powersync' because the v6+sb-28 only supports powersync sinchronization, but in theory, if you have at the receiver side a V6 II and a compatible HSS device, you should get HSS too with all the flashes. I don't have two V6 II so I can't test it.

Regards.

[inkista]

... The Maggrip itself is quite small (see attached picture), I actually think it will stretch and provide a good grip on any of these flash heads, I am just left wondering if the magnets on the grip are pushed far enough apart to take the attachments etc.

Ok. Pulled out my Magmod stuff and my TT350-O, and it actually fits better than I thought. The grid is bowed a little bit, not flat, but it looks like it'll work.

[BruceBanner]

I know this will not help you much, but I think the same about the V350P. I saw the V350 series just after sending my post. Godox says that the TT350 and V350 are the same flash but with different batteries. I prefer the lithium battery. In my case, I'm not in a hurry now and I can wait. My hope is that Godox will develop the V350P finally, but when ?

---------- Post added 12-10-18 at 03:00 PM ----------



I think that a solution to fire your AD200 with the XproP and, at the same time fire another (no Godox flash) is to stack the XproP on your V6 II, and to get another V6/V6 II to control the AF201G (maybe you have more that one V6). I'm not sure if the V6 I/II supports the AF201G (that is, to control power, you'll allways be able to fire it).

I use a setup that works for me and it's similar to what I understand you want. I still don't have the XproP, so I use the XProC.

I have an old but nice Nikon SB-28, my dear V6 II and also a V6 (mk I).

So I stack my XproC with the V6 II, and put the V6II on camera.
Then I put the sb-28 (TTL mode) on my V6, with the correct profile.
I configure V6 & V6 II with the same channel and 'A' group.
This way I can fire my AD200 or my other Godox flashes and, at the same time, fire and control the sb-28 just pressing the 'A' button on my V6 II.

If you want also to get HSS at the same time it's more complicated. In my case I can only get 'powersync' because the v6+sb-28 only supports powersync sinchronization, but in theory, if you have at the receiver side a V6 II and a compatible HSS device, you should get HSS too with all the flashes. I don't have two V6 II so I can't test it.

Regards.

Yeah, I really would like longer term to move away from AA or AAA batteries in a flash. It's what's really making me wait for (hopefully) a V350P. I would be all over a V860ii already except that the only way to control that is via a XproP, and then that means how do you run and gun with it? It would need to sit on my flash bracket <sigh> except that the only tripod screw hole for it exists on the bottom of the plastic feet, or if using just the hotshoe itself it all just gets a little too weighty and wobbly for my liking.

Ok. Pulled out my Magmod stuff and my TT350-O, and it actually fits better than I thought. The grid is bowed a little bit, not flat, but it looks like it'll work.

Attachment 426805

Hey, that looks neat, thanks for doing that. With just a grid and diffuser/gel, how's the weight? Is stacking those things making the head flop around pretty badly or is it holding up ok?

[inkista]

... Hey, that looks neat, thanks for doing that. With just a grid and diffuser/gel, how's the weight? Is stacking those things making the head flop around pretty badly or is it holding up ok?

Seems to be holding up okay, but one of the weaknesses of the Godox speedlights is that there's no lock button for tilt/swivel on the heads.

[BruceBanner]

Seems to be holding up okay, but one of the weaknesses of the Godox speedlights is that there's no lock button for tilt/swivel on the heads.

Tell me a single head that DOES have a lock button for tilt on the speedlight heads

Pentax FGZ540II, nope.

Metz 44 AF-2, nope.

Godox V860II, nope.

Metz M400, nope.

Pentax AF 201 FG, nope.

Seriously... it seems to be way the minority of flashes that offer that feature than a standard affair type thing, I've given up on getting that feature for Pentax

[stub]

The Shanny SN600FGZ head locks at 90 and 180 deg and has a no lock but a heavy click on the integers in between,,

[inkista]

Tell me a single head that DOES have a lock button for tilt on the speedlight heads

In terms of speedlights I've owned? My 430EX, 580EX, 580EXII, FL-50 and SB-26 all have it. So, I'd assume all the Canon, Nikon, and Oly/Panasonic speedlights with tilt/swivel heads do.

Seriously... it seems to be way the minority of flashes that offer that feature than a standard affair type thing, I've given up on getting that feature for Pentax

Yeah, it's far less common on 3rd-party flashes, particularly the Chinese ones. Much more common on OEM flashes.

[stevebrot]

there is no other way to mount the V680ii flash to a flash bracket other than it's own hot shoe or using the plastic feet it comes with

...gaffer's tape?

The short story is that on-camera flash are designed for use on-camera and that usually means foot mount and foot mount only. Gaffer's tape or velcro might prove more stable.


Steve

[BruceBanner]

In terms of speedlights I've owned? My 430EX, 580EX, 580EXII, FL-50 and SB-26 all have it. So, I'd assume all the Canon, Nikon, and Oly/Panasonic speedlights with tilt/swivel heads do.



Yeah, it's far less common on 3rd-party flashes, particularly the Chinese ones. Much more common on OEM flashes.

I dunno, I just watch a heap of you tube videos and study the way folks are moving the heads, most seem to just 'move it' without having to push something or whatever...

...gaffer's tape?

The short story is that on-camera flash are designed for use on-camera and that usually means foot mount and foot mount only. Gaffer's tape or velcro might prove more stable.


Steve

When I have my cactus RF60x mounted in the flash bracket, I use rubber bands to increase tension, so yeah not against DIY applications.

Indoors, a manual flash, flagged with the "black foamie thing" aka half a sheet of black craft foam secured with an elastc hair band enables very nice bounced light with direction control. My run and gun events are all done this way. The same folks keep hiring me. I suggest you spend some time on Neil Van Niekirks blog "Tangents". Its free.

I have tried the black foamie thing, works well. After a bit of extensive testing with my magmod kit I have come to the conclusion that bare ceiling bounces are best anyway, all modifiers that work are best when firing the flash directly at the subject, therefore the head tilting down from being pointed up is less of an issue anyway, facing forward is where you want it to be...