Macro Ring Flashes for Portraits?

**BruceBanner** · 10-12-2018, 09:37 PM

I was watching this video where I saw the guy use a very posh ring flash, seemed to be made for the intention of portrait work;

Youtu.be

Anyways, we Pentaxians have limited options when it comes to flash compatibility but the video did make me think, do macro ring flashes actually do ok for certain portrait work? Does anybody here use such a ring flash already, either for wee beasties or portraits?

The video one is a Profoto, no doubt costs more than my house, I can't even see them for sale anywhere

What are they... exclusive to high profile togs only?

Have to say, I did really like the results of that ring flash he got with Lenny tho, so yeah... kinda prompted this thread.

Cheers!

Bruce

Sandy Hancock · 10-12-2018, 10:24 PM

Of the lighting setups demonstrated in that video, the last one (with the ring flash) is (IMHO) by far the least flattering.

But if you really want that deer-in-the-headlights look, I suspect a ring of pearlescent plastic around any ring flash could reproduce it.

**beachgardener** · 10-12-2018, 11:19 PM

Ever looked at ways of available light portraiture, is way cheaper, maybe a few reflectors.

**BruceBanner** · 10-12-2018, 11:59 PM

Originally posted by Sandy Hancock

Of the lighting setups demonstrated in that video, the last one (with the ring flash) is (IMHO) by far the least flattering.

But if you really want that deer-in-the-headlights look, I suspect a ring of pearlescent plastic around any ring flash could reproduce it.

I like it, I wouldn't say it's the least flattering 'by far', my interpretation is just that it's a different style of portraiture flash shot, and due to it's different harsher nature it is different, but I still think it's rather neat and cool looking, and of course that portability aspect of not having to deal with other lightings and a far more portable nature set up is it's obvious main advantage.

Hence the post, I was curious if we could emulate a similar result with these more common macro ring flashes (with a DIY modifier perhaps). Because I don't thing the real thing would work for us even if we could find it to buy...

Originally posted by beachgardener

Ever looked at ways of available light portraiture, is way cheaper, maybe a few reflectors.

I like all shots, flash, no flash, reflectors etc. Just currently I am researching portable flash options.

chrism888 · 10-13-2018, 12:42 AM

They do give a circular highlight in the eyes which IMO isn't flattering, depends on your style, I guess, you can diffuse the lights a tad more with tissue paper or similar perhaps.

Paul the Sunman · 10-13-2018, 12:44 AM

Originally posted by BruceBanner

I was curious if we could emulate a similar result with these more common macro ring flashes (with a DIY modifier perhaps). Because I don't thing the real thing would work for us even if we could find it to buy...

Give it a go and let us know the results! I have a Sigma P-TTL ring flash; might be an interesting experiment.

**BruceBanner** · 10-13-2018, 01:42 AM

Originally posted by Paul the Sunman

Give it a go and let us know the results! I have a Sigma P-TTL ring flash; might be an interesting experiment.

You're better equipped to do the experiment, you have the flash

Paul the Sunman · 10-13-2018, 02:00 AM

Originally posted by BruceBanner

You're better equipped to do the experiment, you have the flash

Yeh, but you have the dummy!

**Digitalis** · 10-13-2018, 02:14 AM - **2 Likes**

AFAIK The Ringflash was originally invented in the 1950s by a dentist that wanted a shadow-less light source to document his patients teeth, It was later taken up by forensics photographers due to its shadowless nature. In the mid 1970's it became increasingly popular among fashion/glamour photographers who liked working with high contrast films.

I work with the Big Elinchrom Ring flash units. I use ringflash more for fill light (this is where its shadow-less nature comes in handy) especially if your model is wearing a hat or something that can create unfortunate shadows on the models face or on its own as the primary key light - on its own it has a unique look, nothing is quite like it.

One thing to watch for is red-eye with ringflash, due to the fact that the light is so close to the optical path, in dim light anything looking directly looking into a lens with a ring flash equipped will get a reflection back from the retina. This can be avoided by working in high ambient light ( studio modelling lights and during daylight hours will mitigate this) but be warned of this effect - it can be a post processing nightmare!.

Also larger ring-flashes produce softer lighting - small compact ringflash units designed for macro work produce very hard lighting. Which can be profoundly unflattering to the skin of your model.

I wouldn't say avoid ringflash - I'd experiment with it, the flat light it produces on its own gives you tremendous leeway with how much contrast you can put into your images. It is also very useful for fill lighting and keeping everything within the dynamic range of the sensor you're dealing with..

Not a Number · 10-13-2018, 07:20 AM

A macro ring flash may be a little bit small and or under powered. Also many of the earlier units do not have diffusers (clear only) which leads to more harshness.

A continuous lighting ring may work better for you.

**BruceBanner** · 10-13-2018, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by Not a Number

A macro ring flash may be a little bit small and or under powered. Also many of the earlier units do not have diffusers (clear only) which leads to more harshness.

A continuous lighting ring may work better for you.

Well that's kinda the purpose of the thread, what ring flashes work well for portrait etc, I thought the macro ones would be too small and underpowered.

Originally posted by Digitalis

AFAIK The Ringflash was originally invented in the 1950s by a dentist that wanted a shadow-less light source to document his patients teeth, It was later taken up by forensics photographers due to its shadowless nature. In the mid 1970's it became increasingly popular among fashion/glamour photographers who liked working with high contrast films.

I work with the Big Elinchrom Ring flash units. I use ringflash more for fill light (this is where its shadow-less nature comes in handy) especially if your model is wearing a hat or something that can create unfortunate shadows on the models face or on its own as the primary key light - on its own it has a unique look, nothing is quite like it.

One thing to watch for is red-eye with ringflash, due to the fact that the light is so close to the optical path, in dim light anything looking directly looking into a lens with a ring flash equipped will get a reflection back from the retina. This can be avoided by working in high ambient light ( studio modelling lights and during daylight hours will mitigate this) but be warned of this effect - it can be a post processing nightmare!.

Also larger ring-flashes produce softer lighting - small compact ringflash units designed for macro work produce very hard lighting. Which can be profoundly unflattering to the skin of your model.

I wouldn't say avoid ringflash - I'd experiment with it, the flat light it produces on its own gives you tremendous leeway with how much contrast you can put into your images. It is also very useful for fill lighting and keeping everything within the dynamic range of the sensor you're dealing with..

So those Elinchrom Ring Flashes, how do they connect? Via a sync cord? Are they then limited to certain shutter speeds (no HSS etc). Do they do P-TTL or are we in Manual only?

Thanks for the info and a direction to point me in

**Digitalis** · 10-14-2018, 04:41 AM - **1 Like**

The elinchrom ring-flash unit I work with are purely manual - as far as I'm aware there is no P-TTL capable option other than the macro flash AF160FC ringflash from Pentax and the dual flash unit from Metz/Sigma. HSS isn't really called for with macro flashes.

The Pentax AF160FC is surprisingly powerful for a compact unit - and it has proper diffusion material in front of the massive toroidal 120mm flash bulbs. I have used the AF160FC for portraiture in my early commercial work. The bigger Elinchrtom Ringflash I work with now has interchangeable light diffusors as well as the ability to be used with practically any lens and has 1200ws of power, so outshining the sun isn't difficult. The AF160FC as I recall can only be used with lenses with front filter diameters from 49mm ~ 62mm.

**BruceBanner** · 10-14-2018, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by Digitalis

The elinchrom ring-flash unit I work with are purely manual - as far as I'm aware there is no P-TTL capable option other than the macro flash AF160FC ringflash from Pentax and the dual flash unit from Metz/Sigma. HSS isn't really called for with macro flashes.

The Pentax AF160FC is surprisingly powerful for a compact unit - and it has proper diffusion material in front of the massive toroidal 120mm flash bulb. I have used the AF160FC for portraiture in my early commercial work. The bigger Elinchrtom Ringflash I work with now has interchangeable light diffusors as well as the ability to be used with practically any lens and has 1200ws of power, so outshining the sun isn't difficult. The AF160FC as I recall can only be used with lenses with front filter diameters from 49mm ~ 62mm.

Cool! I see the AF160FC is discontinued, might see if I can grab one, be interesting to see the results with a FA77 on the K-1.

So the elinchrom ring flash, it connects via a sync port (never used this cable or port before), and there's no TTL or HSS at all, but it has a lotta power. How can you use it then in a 'HSS' kinda way? I mean... if you shot outdoors with it, and set under exposed ambient light to -1ev, yet the ambient light still demanded you have 1/5000 for a f2 shot, does that mean you simply can't use it at that F number? you'd have to use it at an f number that gave the ambient light down to (taking into account EV compensation) 1/200 etc?

Sorry, I'm still kinda new to all this, just trying to figure out if this ring flash you use is really situated only for 'studio' work where 1/200 is workable even with wide open apertures because you can control the ambient light around you etc.

Not a Number · 10-14-2018, 05:26 AM

Here is a resource, though not very active:

RingFlash Resource

mcgregni · 10-14-2018, 09:14 AM

I feel that a small ringflash on the camera, like the AF160 FC, is likely to be a fairly hard (ie small) light source for typical portraits, due to the distance. (too far away) to the subject. But I like soft light for my portraits, with large light sources very close.

I can see the benefit of a large off camera round diffusser, like a beauty dish, but not a ringflash on camera.

10-13-2018, 02:14 AM - 2 Likes	#9
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	AFAIK The Ringflash was originally invented in the 1950s by a dentist that wanted a shadow-less light source to document his patients teeth, It was later taken up by forensics photographers due to its shadowless nature. In the mid 1970's it became increasingly popular among fashion/glamour photographers who liked working with high contrast films. I work with the Big Elinchrom Ring flash units. I use ringflash more for fill light (this is where its shadow-less nature comes in handy) especially if your model is wearing a hat or something that can create unfortunate shadows on the models face or on its own as the primary key light - on its own it has a unique look, nothing is quite like it. One thing to watch for is red-eye with ringflash, due to the fact that the light is so close to the optical path, in dim light anything looking directly looking into a lens with a ring flash equipped will get a reflection back from the retina. This can be avoided by working in high ambient light ( studio modelling lights and during daylight hours will mitigate this) but be warned of this effect - it can be a post processing nightmare!. Also larger ring-flashes produce softer lighting - small compact ringflash units designed for macro work produce very hard lighting. Which can be profoundly unflattering to the skin of your model. I wouldn't say avoid ringflash - I'd experiment with it, the flat light it produces on its own gives you tremendous leeway with how much contrast you can put into your images. It is also very useful for fill lighting and keeping everything within the dynamic range of the sensor you're dealing with.. Last edited by Digitalis; 10-13-2018 at 06:52 AM.

10-14-2018, 04:41 AM - 1 Like	#12
Digitalis Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Melbourne, Victoria Photos: Gallery Posts: 11,694	The elinchrom ring-flash unit I work with are purely manual - as far as I'm aware there is no P-TTL capable option other than the macro flash AF160FC ringflash from Pentax and the dual flash unit from Metz/Sigma. HSS isn't really called for with macro flashes. The Pentax AF160FC is surprisingly powerful for a compact unit - and it has proper diffusion material in front of the massive toroidal 120mm flash bulbs. I have used the AF160FC for portraiture in my early commercial work. The bigger Elinchrtom Ringflash I work with now has interchangeable light diffusors as well as the ability to be used with practically any lens and has 1200ws of power, so outshining the sun isn't difficult. The AF160FC as I recall can only be used with lenses with front filter diameters from 49mm ~ 62mm. Last edited by Digitalis; 10-15-2018 at 03:22 AM.

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10-12-2018, 10:24 PM	#2
Sandy Hancock Moderator Site Supporter Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Adelaide Hills, South Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 11,275	Of the lighting setups demonstrated in that video, the last one (with the ring flash) is (IMHO) *by far* the least flattering. But if you really want that deer-in-the-headlights look, I suspect a ring of pearlescent plastic around any ring flash could reproduce it.

10-12-2018, 11:19 PM	#3
beachgardener Site Supporter Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Australia Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,842	Ever looked at ways of available light portraiture, is way cheaper, maybe a few reflectors.

10-12-2018, 11:59 PM	#4
BruceBanner Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 5,405 Original Poster	Originally posted by Sandy Hancock Of the lighting setups demonstrated in that video, the last one (with the ring flash) is (IMHO) *by far* the least flattering. But if you really want that deer-in-the-headlights look, I suspect a ring of pearlescent plastic around any ring flash could reproduce it. I like it, I wouldn't say it's the least flattering 'by far', my interpretation is just that it's a different style of portraiture flash shot, and due to it's different harsher nature it is different, but I still think it's rather neat and cool looking, and of course that portability aspect of not having to deal with other lightings and a far more portable nature set up is it's obvious main advantage. Hence the post, I was curious if we could emulate a similar result with these more common macro ring flashes (with a DIY modifier perhaps). Because I don't thing the real thing would work for us even if we could find it to buy... Originally posted by beachgardener Ever looked at ways of available light portraiture, is way cheaper, maybe a few reflectors. I like all shots, flash, no flash, reflectors etc. Just currently I am researching portable flash options.

10-13-2018, 12:42 AM	#5
chrism888 Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Posts: 178	They do give a circular highlight in the eyes which IMO isn't flattering, depends on your style, I guess, you can diffuse the lights a tad more with tissue paper or similar perhaps.

10-13-2018, 12:44 AM	#6
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	Originally posted by BruceBanner I was curious if we could emulate a similar result with these more common macro ring flashes (with a DIY modifier perhaps). Because I don't thing the real thing would work for us even if we could find it to buy... Give it a go and let us know the results! I have a Sigma P-TTL ring flash; might be an interesting experiment.

10-13-2018, 01:42 AM	#7
BruceBanner Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 5,405 Original Poster	Originally posted by Paul the Sunman Give it a go and let us know the results! I have a Sigma P-TTL ring flash; might be an interesting experiment. You're better equipped to do the experiment, you have the flash

10-13-2018, 02:00 AM	#8
Paul the Sunman Pentaxian Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Melbourne Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,846	Originally posted by BruceBanner You're better equipped to do the experiment, you have the flash Yeh, but you have the dummy!

10-13-2018, 07:20 AM	#10
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	A macro ring flash may be a little bit small and or under powered. Also many of the earlier units do not have diffusers (clear only) which leads to more harshness. A continuous lighting ring may work better for you.

10-13-2018, 06:17 PM	#11
BruceBanner Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 5,405 Original Poster	Originally posted by Not a Number A macro ring flash may be a little bit small and or under powered. Also many of the earlier units do not have diffusers (clear only) which leads to more harshness. A continuous lighting ring may work better for you. Well that's kinda the purpose of the thread, what ring flashes work well for portrait etc, I thought the macro ones would be too small and underpowered. Originally posted by Digitalis AFAIK The Ringflash was originally invented in the 1950s by a dentist that wanted a shadow-less light source to document his patients teeth, It was later taken up by forensics photographers due to its shadowless nature. In the mid 1970's it became increasingly popular among fashion/glamour photographers who liked working with high contrast films. I work with the Big Elinchrom Ring flash units. I use ringflash more for fill light (this is where its shadow-less nature comes in handy) especially if your model is wearing a hat or something that can create unfortunate shadows on the models face or on its own as the primary key light - on its own it has a unique look, nothing is quite like it. One thing to watch for is red-eye with ringflash, due to the fact that the light is so close to the optical path, in dim light anything looking directly looking into a lens with a ring flash equipped will get a reflection back from the retina. This can be avoided by working in high ambient light ( studio modelling lights and during daylight hours will mitigate this) but be warned of this effect - it can be a post processing nightmare!. Also larger ring-flashes produce softer lighting - small compact ringflash units designed for macro work produce very hard lighting. Which can be profoundly unflattering to the skin of your model. I wouldn't say avoid ringflash - I'd experiment with it, the flat light it produces on its own gives you tremendous leeway with how much contrast you can put into your images. It is also very useful for fill lighting and keeping everything within the dynamic range of the sensor you're dealing with.. So those Elinchrom Ring Flashes, how do they connect? Via a sync cord? Are they then limited to certain shutter speeds (no HSS etc). Do they do P-TTL or are we in Manual only? Thanks for the info and a direction to point me in

10-14-2018, 05:24 AM	#13
BruceBanner Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 5,405 Original Poster	Originally posted by Digitalis The elinchrom ring-flash unit I work with are purely manual - as far as I'm aware there is no P-TTL capable option other than the macro flash AF160FC ringflash from Pentax and the dual flash unit from Metz/Sigma. HSS isn't really called for with macro flashes. The Pentax AF160FC is surprisingly powerful for a compact unit - and it has proper diffusion material in front of the massive toroidal 120mm flash bulb. I have used the AF160FC for portraiture in my early commercial work. The bigger Elinchrtom Ringflash I work with now has interchangeable light diffusors as well as the ability to be used with practically any lens and has 1200ws of power, so outshining the sun isn't difficult. The AF160FC as I recall can only be used with lenses with front filter diameters from 49mm ~ 62mm. Cool! I see the AF160FC is discontinued, might see if I can grab one, be interesting to see the results with a FA77 on the K-1. So the elinchrom ring flash, it connects via a sync port (never used this cable or port before), and there's no TTL or HSS at all, but it has a lotta power. How can you use it then in a 'HSS' kinda way? I mean... if you shot outdoors with it, and set under exposed ambient light to -1ev, yet the ambient light still demanded you have 1/5000 for a f2 shot, does that mean you simply can't use it at that F number? you'd have to use it at an f number that gave the ambient light down to (taking into account EV compensation) 1/200 etc? Sorry, I'm still kinda new to all this, just trying to figure out if this ring flash you use is really situated only for 'studio' work where 1/200 is workable even with wide open apertures because you can control the ambient light around you etc.

10-14-2018, 05:26 AM	#14
Not a Number Moderator Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Venice, CA Posts: 10,526	Here is a resource, though not very active: RingFlash Resource

10-14-2018, 09:14 AM	#15
mcgregni Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Surrey, England Posts: 2,603	I feel that a small ringflash on the camera, like the AF160 FC, is likely to be a fairly hard (ie small) light source for typical portraits, due to the distance. (too far away) to the subject. But I like soft light for my portraits, with large light sources very close. I can see the benefit of a large off camera round diffusser, like a beauty dish, but not a ringflash on camera.