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10-22-2018, 05:20 PM   #1
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V6ii + AF360FGZII (on top) triggering a RF60x?

Ok... so a bit of a weird one here.

I have the following items;
  • K-1
  • Vello Ringbox Flash Soft Box
  • V6ii
  • AF360FGZII
  • RF60x

What I want to do is actually have the 360ii in the hotshoe of the K-1 which is the going through/into the Flashring softbox so that I get direct flash working from that, but then I want the RF60x to somehow be triggered in the equation/shot, either as a secondary fill light or act as a rim light.

Luckily for me, the 360II is quite compact, I could actually put a V6ii on top of the K-1 and then add the 360ii into the v6ii hotshoe and still get the flash to successfully poke through into the Ringbox, if that helps...

Thus far I can use the K-1 with the V6ii, get the RF60x to fire and trigger the 360ii (SL2 mode). Problem with that is that nothing is in the hotshoe of the camera, I might be able to make that still work with just clever arms and lightstands and then just position the camera with the v6ii through the ring. But I'm just kinda wanting to know if I can do the same but in reverse, with the 360ii on the camera triggering the RF60x.

Is this possible?

Cheers,


Bruce

10-22-2018, 05:47 PM   #2
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Why not trigger the rf60x optically? Or setup a v6 trigger near the roundflash to trigger the rf60x wirelessly?
10-22-2018, 07:27 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
Why not trigger the rf60x optically? Or setup a v6 trigger near the roundflash to trigger the rf60x wirelessly?
Well, that's what I'm asking, I didn't even know the RF60x could be triggerred optically by the 360ii, can it? If so how do I make them do that (modes etc)?

And yes, the other option would be to somehow stuff the rf60x into the ring flash and just have the camera close by to it, still poking through the hole etc but not attached to the RF60x. That seems more setup time and a little more 'static'. I get more versatility for composition by having the ringflash 'on my person' than having to worry about aiming through it from a fixed location etc.
10-22-2018, 07:43 PM - 1 Like   #4
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Well you've asked about the TTL Passthrough "stack" on your other thread, and some general explanations about its use are already there. If you feel that the trigger / flash stack plus the ringflash is actually a practical thing to work with (another accident waiting to happen?), then yes, operate the Pentax flash in TTL Passthrough mode on the V6II, and the RF60x as a Radio Slave controlled by the V6II.


If the whole contraption is too unwieldy then you've got the option, as UncleVanya said, of basic optical slave triggering. Here's the download for the RF60x Manual ..... https://www.cactus-image.com/Cactus%20RF60X%20User%20Manual%20(EN).pdf

10-22-2018, 08:11 PM - 1 Like   #5
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I think you'd use mode s2. Page 39-40.
10-22-2018, 08:25 PM   #6
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Thanks guys again. I'll look at that manual but it sounds as if you can make the RF60x trigger without the v6ii but from being optically triggered from another flash (the 360ii in this case from within the Ringbox.

Ok.. that sounds simplest. Does however... having the Rf60x out of sight from the 360ii (ie the RF60x is being used as a rim light and is behind a body), does that hinder the success of it firing? ie no line of sight?
10-23-2018, 04:55 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Thanks guys again. I'll look at that manual but it sounds as if you can make the RF60x trigger without the v6ii but from being optically triggered from another flash (the 360ii in this case from within the Ringbox.

Ok.. that sounds simplest. Does however... having the Rf60x out of sight from the 360ii (ie the RF60x is being used as a rim light and is behind a body), does that hinder the success of it firing? ie no line of sight?
That is why one scenario I suggested was to put a v6ii trigger near the roundflash. Trigger the v6ii trigger using light in s2 mode then it can fire the rf60x via radio signal.

Ignore, not possible with v6ii.

Last edited by UncleVanya; 10-25-2018 at 05:25 AM.
10-23-2018, 01:02 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Well you've asked about the TTL Passthrough "stack" on your other thread, and some general explanations about its use are already there. If you feel that the trigger / flash stack plus the ringflash is actually a practical thing to work with (another accident waiting to happen?), then yes, operate the Pentax flash in TTL Passthrough mode on the V6II, and the RF60x as a Radio Slave controlled by the V6II.


If the whole contraption is too unwieldy then you've got the option, as UncleVanya said, of basic optical slave triggering. Here's the download for the RF60x Manual ..... https://www.cactus-image.com/Cactus%20RF60X%20User%20Manual%20(EN).pdf
QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
That is why one scenario I suggested was to put a v6ii trigger near the roundflash. Trigger the v6ii trigger using light in s2 mode then it can fire the rf60x via radio signal.
Okokok.... let's wait up for a second and see if I have this right.

I'm looking at the Manual for the RF60x, page 39-40 as suggested. It appears that when placing the RF60x into OPT SL S2 mode, it's going to be optically triggered from the 360ii, no need for a v6ii at all, correct? But this optical triggering can be a bit hit or miss right, depending upon ambient light, distance and all that kinda stuff? Really just the reverse of what I've done thus far with my RF60x and 360ii, in that I placed the 360ii in SL2 mode and it was optically triggered from the RF60x.


But I was under the impression if I were the have the K-1 with the v6ii and the 360ii on top of that, I'm not going to manage (regardless of firmware installed on the v6ii) to get the 360ii to work as normal (full functionality as if it were in the hotshoe) and then also still have full functionality of the V6ii to control the power of the RF60x as per normal etc? If the 360ii can do HSS (which it can) and I can control it's power direct (as it's sitting on top of the v6ii (in Tx mode) in the hotshoe of the camera, we'd have to use bypass ttl mode, and wouldn't that then kill off any functionality and control over the RF60x?

And then also what about HSS?

I'm now just starting to put my head together for all sorts of working flash combos with the 360ii and rf60x, not just with the perhaps awkward ring flash. Currently I am with just one V6ii, but by the end of today that might change and I'll have two v6ii units which might open up the potential for working scenarios.

What's just occurring to me, is that the ring flash might make a nice fill light, and the 360ii is a less powerful flash, so it might suit that purpose. RF60x as a key light elsewhere. That would mean on location shoots I have a two light set up, one that's a softbox 'on camera' with me, leaving me with only having to carry a single light stand with a rf60x and a softbox (or magsphere). Could be quite a portable and easy two light set up if I could understand how to make it all play ball without missing out on features like P-TTL or HSS.

10-23-2018, 02:50 PM   #9
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Hi, the TTL Passthrough mode, with 360FGZ on top of the V6II, does provide full functioning of the flash, plus the Radio slave can still be controlled as well from the V6II. The idea for using optical slave modes came up because you thought the whole trigger stack was too high for the ring diffuser .
10-23-2018, 08:39 PM   #10
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My point was that if you needed to, you could put the af360fgz directly on the camera. Then use a v6ii trigger in optical s2 mode sitting somewhere easily able to see the roundflash. This then would trigger the rf60x. Yes a single stack may also work in passthrough, but that seems a bit awkward physically. ((( v6ii won't optically trigger. )))

Last edited by UncleVanya; 10-25-2018 at 05:27 AM.
10-24-2018, 02:37 AM   #11
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You cannot eliminate pre-flash form the 360fgz flash, if this is the flash that is in the hotshoe. Ignoring this pre-flash can be difficult to overcome. The RF60 has a delay that you try to tune, but it can make optical slave unreliable in many situations.

Putting the RF60 in your hotshoe can eliminate the issue if you leave it as a manual / non PTTL type flash and set the 360fgz as the slave. No pre-flash, so everything stays in sync easily. Remaining trouble, of course, is still potentially overcoming ambient light or triggering around obstacles.

But, using the v6ii trigger in TTL passthrough with the 360fgz on top should work really well.
Only problems I have seen is when using HSS (need special firmware upgrade on the Cactus units). The 540fgz (I imagine the 360 should act the same) flash mounted on top of the v6ii has its output cut even further than normal with HSS. I can never get the same power as when the flash is connected directly onto the camera's hot shoe. This still works great as a front fill light with use of rf60s, but I feel I get sometimes get better HSS results with the Pentax flash alone, depending on where I want the most light. (which for most cases is not directly in front, so the power loss is usually not a terribly bad thing)

FYI, you should not need multiple v6ii triggers unless you're using as a repeater over great distances. I've never done that. I've seen it in practice with other brands, but I imagine things become unstable. I am currently using two rf60s with my v6ii trigger. This works great for HSS which tends to cut output a bit.
10-24-2018, 08:39 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by UncleVanya Quote
My point was that if you needed to, you could put the af360fgz directly on the camera. Then use a v6ii trigger in optical s2 mode sitting somewhere easily able to see the roundflash. This then would trigger the rf60x. Yes a single stack may also work in passthrough, but that seems a bit awkward physically.
I didn't know we could do that, get the V6ii to do 'stuff' when it's not in the hotshoe of the camera. Cool!

It's not a massive problem to have the 360ii on the v6ii on the camera, as the 360ii is quite a lot smaller and compact than the 540ii I had or the rf60x.

QuoteOriginally posted by amoringello Quote
You cannot eliminate pre-flash form the 360fgz flash, if this is the flash that is in the hotshoe. Ignoring this pre-flash can be difficult to overcome. The RF60 has a delay that you try to tune, but it can make optical slave unreliable in many situations.

Putting the RF60 in your hotshoe can eliminate the issue if you leave it as a manual / non PTTL type flash and set the 360fgz as the slave. No pre-flash, so everything stays in sync easily. Remaining trouble, of course, is still potentially overcoming ambient light or triggering around obstacles.

But, using the v6ii trigger in TTL passthrough with the 360fgz on top should work really well.
Only problems I have seen is when using HSS (need special firmware upgrade on the Cactus units). The 540fgz (I imagine the 360 should act the same) flash mounted on top of the v6ii has its output cut even further than normal with HSS. I can never get the same power as when the flash is connected directly onto the camera's hot shoe. This still works great as a front fill light with use of rf60s, but I feel I get sometimes get better HSS results with the Pentax flash alone, depending on where I want the most light. (which for most cases is not directly in front, so the power loss is usually not a terribly bad thing)

FYI, you should not need multiple v6ii triggers unless you're using as a repeater over great distances. I've never done that. I've seen it in practice with other brands, but I imagine things become unstable. I am currently using two rf60s with my v6ii trigger. This works great for HSS which tends to cut output a bit.
Thanks, lots and lots of solutions it seems to get this all working, and I now have an additional v6ii to assist in the equation of it all.

Basically from what I was experiencing in the field the other day is that the K-1+360ii and the 'Doughnut' (Vello Ringbox flash softbox) is quite a comfortable walk around set up. Having a second light stand somewhere as the keylight and using the something more powerful like the RF60x from that place might make for a nice shot, then we are using the doughnut as more of a fill light (with pretty catch lights... yes... PRETTY!)

But also, wanted to do rim light as well for hair stuff etc.
10-25-2018, 12:28 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I didn't know we could do that, get the V6ii to do 'stuff' when it's not in the hotshoe of the camera.
The V6II does not support optical triggering.

The V6 (no "II") does but its light sensor is optimised for flash calibration so it isn't very sensitive.
10-25-2018, 05:23 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The V6II does not support optical triggering.

The V6 (no "II") does but its light sensor is optimised for flash calibration so it isn't very sensitive.
Oops! I hadn't realized. I have the v6.
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