Pentax K1 w/ manual lens won't trigger off camera flash

zazism_rx · 02-21-2019, 07:46 AM

So im having an issue with fully manual lenses and off camera flashes/triggers.

I recently switched over to the godox system of flashes. Here's what I have:

Flashpoint xpro-p trigger
Flashpoint ad200
2x godox TT600 (these are manual flashes when mounted on camera)
1x Pentax AF360FGZ II Flash (I use this for running and gunning with HSS/TTL on camera)

lenses tested:
Helios 44k-4 (full manual)
Tamron Adaptall 28mm f/2.5 (auto aperture, manual focus)
Pentax D-FA 24-70 f/2.8 (auto everything)

It seems as if the manual lens i attach doesnt have auto aperture, I cannot get it to fire with the Xpro-p attached. I experienced this with the cactus triggers as well.

With the manual lens attached here are my results:
Xpro-p trigger (attached): will not fire in any mode except for a TTL preflash from the AD200 when set to TTL.
AF360FGZ (attached): Fires normally in P-TTL and Manual.
TT600 (attached): Fires normally in manual (does not have TTL).

Interestingly, i was at a workshop this weekend and I attached a Godox X1T made for Nikon to camera and it was able to trigger flashes with a manual lens. I'm guessing this was because the pins didnt line up outside of the center one, and the camera behaved as if it was a manual flash.

I'm not expecting TTL to work, but i'd like a way to trigger flashes that ive set the power for using this trigger if possible. Does anyone know of any cheap solutions?

I've heard of a trick where you short out one of the pins on the lens mount, but if possible i don't want to have to fiddle with that every time i switch lenses. My goal is to use some manual lenses in the studio.

I was thinking of trying a PC sync cable to my xpro-p trigger and removing it off my hotshoe, but i dont have a cable handy. Another thing that i'd like to try is attached some kind of adapter on the hotshoe that will only pass through the center pin and ignore the others. Perhaps something like this between my Xpro-p trigger and camera?

Please let me know if you've dealt with this before.

Thanks

pschlute · 02-21-2019, 10:31 AM

Originally posted by zazism_rx

With the manual lens attached here are my results:
Xpro-p trigger (attached): will not fire in any mode except for a TTL preflash from the AD200 when set to TTL.
AF360FGZ (attached): Fires normally in P-TTL and Manual.
TT600 (attached): Fires normally in manual (does not have TTL).

With a manual aperture lens P-TTL wont work. The camera needs to know the aperture.

zazism_rx · 02-21-2019, 10:40 AM

Originally posted by pschlute

With a manual aperture lens P-TTL wont work. The camera needs to know the aperture.

I figured that, but with the XPro-P flash trigger, when I have the off camera flashes set to manual, they still won't fire. Maybe the camera "thinks" the attached trigger is a TTL flash, therefor it doesn't send a fire signal? Trying to find a way around that so the trigger will still fire the manual flashes i have synced up to the trigger.

Just wondering if anyone has solved this before spending money on things that may or may not work.

pschlute · 02-21-2019, 11:02 AM

cant help I am afraid. i use Cactus triggers. Hopefully someone with your kit can answer soon.

zazism_rx · 02-21-2019, 11:10 AM

Originally posted by pschlute

cant help I am afraid. i use Cactus triggers. Hopefully someone with your kit can answer soon.

I've actually got Cactus V2 triggers as well, are you able to get them to fire using a full manual lens? If so, what firmware do you use?

stevebrot · 02-21-2019, 11:44 AM

Originally posted by zazism_rx

I figured that, but with the XPro-P flash trigger, when I have the off camera flashes set to manual, they still won't fire. Maybe the camera "thinks" the attached trigger is a TTL flash, therefor it doesn't send a fire signal? Trying to find a way around that so the trigger will still fire the manual flashes i have synced up to the trigger.

Just wondering if anyone has solved this before spending money on things that may or may not work.

I should keep my mouth shut (does not own an XPro-P), but must ask...Is the XPro-P set to manual rather the P-TTL? While the camera will correctly detect that a modern lens is not present, ~~the sync to fire may still go through the data pin rather than the X contact if a TTL flash is detected.~~ Edit: I remembered this wrong/backward. The X contact will sync to fire, but sync will not be sent to the data contact even though a flash a digital protocol flash is detected through that contact. The device (flash or trigger) must be configured to honor sync to the X contact regardless of whether it was set for P-TTL.

Additional Note: My Sigma EF-610 DG Super ignores sync through the X contact in some modes when an M42 lens is mounted.

Steve

pschlute · 02-21-2019, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by zazism_rx

I've actually got Cactus V2 triggers as well, are you able to get them to fire using a full manual lens? If so, what firmware do you use?

Can't say I have tried with a manual aperture lens, and I don't have the K1 here at the moment to test. But I have used the Cactus units to trigger the flashes in simple Flash-Manual mode with AF/auto aperture lenses....ie no pre-flash and that works. The Cactus transmitter on the camera sends a simple "fire" command to the recievers and the power is controlled by the manual setting on the flash itself. I use this set-up if I want to use a flash meter to meter the flash output.

This is different from the normal "manual" mode using the Cactus transmitter to control flash power because the latter uses the P-TTL protocol....ie there is a Pre-Flash even though it is not used by the camera.

zazism_rx · 02-21-2019, 02:35 PM

Originally posted by stevebrot

I should keep my mouth shut (does not own an XPro-P), but must ask...Is the XPro-P set to manual rather the P-TTL? While the camera will correctly detect that a modern lens is not present, ~~the sync to fire may still go through the data pin rather than the X contact if a TTL flash is detected.~~ Edit: I remembered this wrong/backward. The X contact will sync to fire, but sync will not be sent to the data contact even though a flash a digital protocol flash is detected through that contact. The device (flash or trigger) must be configured to honor sync to the X contact regardless of whether it was set for P-TTL.

Additional Note: My Sigma EF-610 DG Super ignores sync through the X contact in some modes when an M42 lens is mounted.

Steve

I tried using the XPro-P with all my flashes set to manual power (no TTL) and still nothing would fire when I had a fully manual lens attached. I did find this developer response on the cactus forum from someone having the same issue.

He wrote:

Quote:

@TOSHI

Unfortunately there is no solution to this problem.

All manual lenses does not support HSS on Pentax camera.

You can try doing this with a P-TTL flash mounted directly on camera hot shoe, you will encounter the same problem. The V6 II is unable to alter this inherit behavior.

Thanks for your understanding.

Which is consistent with my experience with my V2 triggers, I'm just trying to figure out if theres a way around it without buying manual flash triggers (like a pocket wizard, which im pretty confident would work since manual mounted flashes work).

Originally posted by pschlute

Can't say I have tried with a manual aperture lens, and I don't have the K1 here at the moment to test. But I have used the Cactus units to trigger the flashes in simple Flash-Manual mode with AF/auto aperture lenses....ie no pre-flash and that works. The Cactus transmitter on the camera sends a simple "fire" command to the recievers and the power is controlled by the manual setting on the flash itself. I use this set-up if I want to use a flash meter to meter the flash output.

This is different from the normal "manual" mode using the Cactus transmitter to control flash power because the latter uses the P-TTL protocol....ie there is a Pre-Flash even though it is not used by the camera.

This problem seems to be exclusive to lenses that do not communicate thier aperture to the camera (ie, full manual). I haven't had any problems with 'A' lenses with manual focus (or similar, like my adaptall with aperture control). Stick a manual lens on there and see if your cactus triggers will fire an off camera flash, If its anything like my experience, it won't... which is annoying. Because I love my manual lenses.

pschlute · 02-21-2019, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by zazism_rx

Stick a manual lens on there and see if your cactus triggers will fire an off camera flash, If its anything like my experience, it won't

The timing of that test will depend on the speed of the Pentax repairers I am afraid.

stevebrot · 02-21-2019, 04:53 PM

Originally posted by zazism_rx

I tried using the XPro-P with all my flashes set to manual power (no TTL) and still nothing would fire when I had a fully manual lens attached. I did find this developer response on the cactus forum from someone having the same issue.

I hope you figure this all out. I found the user manual on the Godox site. There is either a bug in Godox's Pentax digital protocol emulation* or an undocumented setting. One thing you might try is to set up to one of groups O-F which supports manual only. Beyond that, perhaps a call or message Godox or Adorama with your findings. A robust emulation of the Pentax protocol will handle the manual aperture control use case. At the very least, the trigger should support a setting where the trigger presents as a passive device (no hand-shake, full manual only, as if it would attached to a non-Pentax camera).

Perhaps user @inkista might have some insight?

Steve

stevebrot · 02-21-2019, 07:01 PM

One last question...Is the shutter speed at or below 1/200s (X-sync max)? HSS does not work without P-TTL.

Steve

zazism_rx · 02-22-2019, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by stevebrot

One last question...Is the shutter speed at or below 1/200s (X-sync max)? HSS does not work without P-TTL.

Steve

Unfortunately, I couldn't get the darn thing to fire no matter what settings I had.

stevebrot · 02-22-2019, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by zazism_rx

Unfortunately, I couldn't get the darn thing to fire no matter what settings I had.

Did you call Adorama? Their customer service is supposed to be quite good for the Flashpoint stuff. Assuming you bought the trigger from them new, this may be a warranty issue. Is your firmware up to date?

I am surprised more of the flash experts have not weighed in on this thread. Perhaps the mods will move it to the flash area of the site with a title that clearly indicates a problem with the XPro-P. The current title lacks the proper "bait".

Steve

**BigMackCam** · 02-22-2019, 12:22 PM

Moved to "Flashes, Lighting and Studio" forum for better visibility

swanlefitte · 02-22-2019, 01:19 PM

I checked my v6 triggers with the Pentax 360 and 50mm a 1.4 off a setting. That worked regardless of the flash set to pttl, m, or a.
My problem was making sure tx/rx was right and I used the cactus set up for my Pentax flash.

Have you first tried the manual trigger before even connecting it to the camera? If that doesn't work you know it's not to do with the lens.

02-21-2019, 07:46 AM	#1
zazism_rx Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Kentucky, US Posts: 54	Pentax K1 w/ manual lens won't trigger off camera flash So im having an issue with fully manual lenses and off camera flashes/triggers. I recently switched over to the godox system of flashes. Here's what I have: Flashpoint xpro-p trigger Flashpoint ad200 2x godox TT600 (these are manual flashes when mounted on camera) 1x Pentax AF360FGZ II Flash (I use this for running and gunning with HSS/TTL on camera) lenses tested: Helios 44k-4 (full manual) Tamron Adaptall 28mm f/2.5 (auto aperture, manual focus) Pentax D-FA 24-70 f/2.8 (auto everything) It seems as if the manual lens i attach doesnt have auto aperture, I cannot get it to fire with the Xpro-p attached. I experienced this with the cactus triggers as well. With the manual lens attached here are my results: Xpro-p trigger (attached): will not fire in any mode except for a TTL preflash from the AD200 when set to TTL. AF360FGZ (attached): Fires normally in P-TTL and Manual. TT600 (attached): Fires normally in manual (does not have TTL). Interestingly, i was at a workshop this weekend and I attached a Godox X1T made for Nikon to camera and it was able to trigger flashes with a manual lens. I'm guessing this was because the pins didnt line up outside of the center one, and the camera behaved as if it was a manual flash. I'm not expecting TTL to work, but i'd like a way to trigger flashes that ive set the power for using this trigger if possible. Does anyone know of any cheap solutions? I've heard of a trick where you short out one of the pins on the lens mount, but if possible i don't want to have to fiddle with that every time i switch lenses. My goal is to use some manual lenses in the studio. I was thinking of trying a PC sync cable to my xpro-p trigger and removing it off my hotshoe, but i dont have a cable handy. Another thing that i'd like to try is attached some kind of adapter on the hotshoe that will only pass through the center pin and ignore the others. Perhaps something like this between my Xpro-p trigger and camera? Please let me know if you've dealt with this before. Thanks

02-21-2019, 11:44 AM	#6
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by zazism_rx I figured that, but with the XPro-P flash trigger, when I have the off camera flashes set to manual, they still won't fire. Maybe the camera "thinks" the attached trigger is a TTL flash, therefor it doesn't send a fire signal? Trying to find a way around that so the trigger will still fire the manual flashes i have synced up to the trigger. Just wondering if anyone has solved this before spending money on things that may or may not work. I should keep my mouth shut (does not own an XPro-P), but must ask...Is the XPro-P set to manual rather the P-TTL? While the camera will correctly detect that a modern lens is not present, ~~the sync to fire may still go through the data pin rather than the X contact if a TTL flash is detected.~~ Edit: I remembered this wrong/backward. The X contact will sync to fire, but sync will not be sent to the data contact even though a flash a digital protocol flash is detected through that contact. The device (flash or trigger) must be configured to honor sync to the X contact regardless of whether it was set for P-TTL. Additional Note: My Sigma EF-610 DG Super ignores sync through the X contact in some modes when an M42 lens is mounted. Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 02-21-2019 at 12:42 PM.

02-21-2019, 04:53 PM	#10
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by zazism_rx I tried using the XPro-P with all my flashes set to manual power (no TTL) and still nothing would fire when I had a fully manual lens attached. I did find this developer response on the cactus forum from someone having the same issue. I hope you figure this all out. I found the user manual on the Godox site. There is either a bug in Godox's Pentax digital protocol emulation* or an undocumented setting. One thing you might try is to set up to one of groups O-F which supports manual only. Beyond that, perhaps a call or message Godox or Adorama with your findings. A robust emulation of the Pentax protocol will handle the manual aperture control use case. At the very least, the trigger should support a setting where the trigger presents as a passive device (no hand-shake, full manual only, as if it would attached to a non-Pentax camera). Perhaps user @inkista might have some insight? Steve Last edited by stevebrot; 02-21-2019 at 05:30 PM.

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02-21-2019, 10:31 AM	#2
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	Originally posted by zazism_rx With the manual lens attached here are my results: Xpro-p trigger (attached): will not fire in any mode except for a TTL preflash from the AD200 when set to TTL. AF360FGZ (attached): Fires normally in P-TTL and Manual. TT600 (attached): Fires normally in manual (does not have TTL). With a manual aperture lens P-TTL wont work. The camera needs to know the aperture.

02-21-2019, 10:40 AM	#3
zazism_rx Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Kentucky, US Posts: 54 Original Poster	Originally posted by pschlute With a manual aperture lens P-TTL wont work. The camera needs to know the aperture. I figured that, but with the XPro-P flash trigger, when I have the off camera flashes set to manual, they still won't fire. Maybe the camera "thinks" the attached trigger is a TTL flash, therefor it doesn't send a fire signal? Trying to find a way around that so the trigger will still fire the manual flashes i have synced up to the trigger. Just wondering if anyone has solved this before spending money on things that may or may not work.

02-21-2019, 11:02 AM	#4
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	cant help I am afraid. i use Cactus triggers. Hopefully someone with your kit can answer soon.

02-21-2019, 11:10 AM	#5
zazism_rx Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Kentucky, US Posts: 54 Original Poster	Originally posted by pschlute cant help I am afraid. i use Cactus triggers. Hopefully someone with your kit can answer soon. I've actually got Cactus V2 triggers as well, are you able to get them to fire using a full manual lens? If so, what firmware do you use?

02-21-2019, 11:53 AM	#7
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	Originally posted by zazism_rx I've actually got Cactus V2 triggers as well, are you able to get them to fire using a full manual lens? If so, what firmware do you use? Can't say I have tried with a manual aperture lens, and I don't have the K1 here at the moment to test. But I have used the Cactus units to trigger the flashes in simple Flash-Manual mode with AF/auto aperture lenses....ie no pre-flash and that works. The Cactus transmitter on the camera sends a simple "fire" command to the recievers and the power is controlled by the manual setting on the flash itself. I use this set-up if I want to use a flash meter to meter the flash output. This is different from the normal "manual" mode using the Cactus transmitter to control flash power because the latter uses the P-TTL protocol....ie there is a Pre-Flash even though it is not used by the camera.

02-21-2019, 02:35 PM	#8
zazism_rx Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Kentucky, US Posts: 54 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot I should keep my mouth shut (does not own an XPro-P), but must ask...Is the XPro-P set to manual rather the P-TTL? While the camera will correctly detect that a modern lens is not present, ~~the sync to fire may still go through the data pin rather than the X contact if a TTL flash is detected.~~ Edit: I remembered this wrong/backward. The X contact will sync to fire, but sync will not be sent to the data contact even though a flash a digital protocol flash is detected through that contact. The device (flash or trigger) must be configured to honor sync to the X contact regardless of whether it was set for P-TTL. Additional Note: My Sigma EF-610 DG Super ignores sync through the X contact in some modes when an M42 lens is mounted. Steve I tried using the XPro-P with all my flashes set to manual power (no TTL) and still nothing would fire when I had a fully manual lens attached. I did find this developer response on the cactus forum from someone having the same issue. He wrote: Quote: @TOSHI Unfortunately there is no solution to this problem. All manual lenses does not support HSS on Pentax camera. You can try doing this with a P-TTL flash mounted directly on camera hot shoe, you will encounter the same problem. The V6 II is unable to alter this inherit behavior. Thanks for your understanding. Which is consistent with my experience with my V2 triggers, I'm just trying to figure out if theres a way around it without buying manual flash triggers (like a pocket wizard, which im pretty confident would work since manual mounted flashes work). Originally posted by pschlute Can't say I have tried with a manual aperture lens, and I don't have the K1 here at the moment to test. But I have used the Cactus units to trigger the flashes in simple Flash-Manual mode with AF/auto aperture lenses....ie no pre-flash and that works. The Cactus transmitter on the camera sends a simple "fire" command to the recievers and the power is controlled by the manual setting on the flash itself. I use this set-up if I want to use a flash meter to meter the flash output. This is different from the normal "manual" mode using the Cactus transmitter to control flash power because the latter uses the P-TTL protocol....ie there is a Pre-Flash even though it is not used by the camera. This problem seems to be exclusive to lenses that do not communicate thier aperture to the camera (ie, full manual). I haven't had any problems with 'A' lenses with manual focus (or similar, like my adaptall with aperture control). Stick a manual lens on there and see if your cactus triggers will fire an off camera flash, If its anything like my experience, it won't... which is annoying. Because I love my manual lenses.

02-21-2019, 04:47 PM	#9
pschlute Moderator Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Surrey, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 8,202	Originally posted by zazism_rx Stick a manual lens on there and see if your cactus triggers will fire an off camera flash, If its anything like my experience, it won't The timing of that test will depend on the speed of the Pentax repairers I am afraid.

02-21-2019, 07:01 PM	#11
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	One last question...Is the shutter speed at or below 1/200s (X-sync max)? HSS does not work without P-TTL. Steve

02-22-2019, 11:36 AM	#12
zazism_rx Forum Member Join Date: Jan 2018 Location: Kentucky, US Posts: 54 Original Poster	Originally posted by stevebrot One last question...Is the shutter speed at or below 1/200s (X-sync max)? HSS does not work without P-TTL. Steve Unfortunately, I couldn't get the darn thing to fire no matter what settings I had.

02-22-2019, 12:09 PM	#13
stevebrot Otis Memorial Pentaxian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Vancouver (USA) Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 42,007	Originally posted by zazism_rx Unfortunately, I couldn't get the darn thing to fire no matter what settings I had. Did you call Adorama? Their customer service is supposed to be quite good for the Flashpoint stuff. Assuming you bought the trigger from them new, this may be a warranty issue. Is your firmware up to date? I am surprised more of the flash experts have not weighed in on this thread. Perhaps the mods will move it to the flash area of the site with a title that clearly indicates a problem with the XPro-P. The current title lacks the proper "bait". Steve

02-22-2019, 12:22 PM	#14
BigMackCam Digitiser of Film Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: North East of England Posts: 20,674	Moved to "Flashes, Lighting and Studio" forum for better visibility

02-22-2019, 01:19 PM	#15
swanlefitte Pentaxian Join Date: May 2015 Location: Minneapolis Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,068	I checked my v6 triggers with the Pentax 360 and 50mm a 1.4 off a setting. That worked regardless of the flash set to pttl, m, or a. My problem was making sure tx/rx was right and I used the cactus set up for my Pentax flash. Have you first tried the manual trigger before even connecting it to the camera? If that doesn't work you know it's not to do with the lens.