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03-22-2019, 10:27 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
They would also have to use a multi-brand hot-shoe connector design.
Starblitz did such thing in the old times (analog TTL).

03-22-2019, 03:30 PM   #32
Brooke Meyer
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I don't get the craze about round heads.
Me either. Have a stack of round grids in my speed light bag. I get round even light (with dramatic fall off)

My Mole Richardson Fresnels are round and project a flat even light but sometimes I make them rectangular with barn doors. Same with my Einstein's.

When a fire 1,2 or 3 speed lights into a black backed convertible umbrella with a diffuser on front, it comes out round. Same with my Wescott Orb whether its speed light or mono light inside. Same lights inside a strip come out rectangular.
04-05-2019, 10:05 AM   #33
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Seems like a Pentax compatible version of the Godox V1 will be available.
04-05-2019, 12:06 PM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Seems like a Pentax compatible version of the Godox V1 will be available.
It's something more expensive than I thought, but I'll buy it. Compared to my current flash (a humble metz 48) I see a lot of advantages:

* master, it can control other Godox flashes. The interface seems even better/quicker than the XproP. It will simplify my main camera, goodbye to a bracket just to hold a trigger. Speedlight and trigger are now only one device. This is the main point for me.

* lithium battery: more discharges and faster recicle time (mine needs 4+ sec. to recharge after a full discharge). Another strong point for me.

As a disadvantage, GN of metz 48@50mm is 35. Only 28 for the V1@50mm. Well, let's see what it really means in the real world.


Other points are maybe less important. In my case, I like the round head, maybe with the flash on camera it doesn't matter if it's round or square, but I think it can be good when you use the V1 as slave, off camera, to fill an umbrella or similar.

I'm doing a list of speedlights and triggers to sell...

Regards.


Last edited by morenjavi; 04-05-2019 at 12:21 PM.
04-05-2019, 11:51 PM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
* master, it can control other Godox flashes.
I've read that the TCM function doesn't work for slave flashes, though.

Perhaps this will be fixed in a firmware update.

QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
The interface seems even better/quicker than the XproP.
I don't see that (yet?). It lacks dedicated buttons for selecting groups, for starters. EDIT: Just noticed that it uses soft buttons as group buttons. This may or may not work well, depending on under which circumstances the soft button are needed for something else.

Which demonstration convinced you that it is going to be an even better controller than an XPro-P?

QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
It will simplify my main camera, goodbye to a bracket just to hold a trigger.
Well, normally you don't need a bracket for the trigger.

I agree that someone who wants an on-camera flash will prefer a single master flash over a trigger + flash.
Having said that, it should work to have an extra controller in your pocket for power level control, etc., as long as the on-camera flash is capable of triggering the off-camera lights.


QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
* lithium battery: more discharges and faster recicle time
Sure, but in that respect the AD200 is even better.

I think for off-camera use, the AD200 with the roundhead option (or just its regular heads, if one doesn't need the roundhead feature) is better value for money.

QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
GN of metz 48@50mm is 35. Only 28 for the V1@50mm.
One has to be careful with such comparisons.

At "50mm" the V1 probably has a much larger spread so when used as a bounced light or in a modifier, I don't expect there to be any power level difference compared to a regular speedlight.

I guess the seemingly low GN number stems from the fact that the round illumination pattern is rather wasteful for on-camera usage when the flash is forward-firing. At a zoom setting that fills the width of the frame, there is a lot of light wasted above the top and below the bottom of the frame.

AFAIC, a roundhead is rarely needed but makes more sense as an off-camera flash.
I didn't see the point of the roundhead feature for an on-camera flash when Profoto did it with the A1 and I still don't see it with all the copycats.

The roundhead makes rotating a flag (-> BFT) easy though, which is nice for event photographers.

I also like the back-tilting option of the V1. Again, rather useful for event photographers who don't have to rotate the head before they can bounce the light from a surface behind them, or above them but avoiding direct illumination of the subject.

Last edited by Class A; 04-06-2019 at 12:34 AM.
04-06-2019, 05:32 AM - 1 Like   #36
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Hello Class A and thanks for you comments.

Notice that I'm posting my opinions based on the idea of using the V1 as a replacement of my on camera flash+trigger setup, so my arguments may not be valid in other cases.


QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Perhaps this will be fixed in a firmware update.
I hope so, I'm not sure if the TCM function doesn't work for the master too. It will be useful for me.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Which demonstration convinced you that it is going to be an even better controller than an XPro-P?
Well, I just argue that the interface seems quicker to operate. Please remember my point: I'm a person with on-camera flash that needs to control 3 slave groups, just 3. The V1 seems to have everything I need for a trigger, and the way it controls the slave groups seems quicker compared to the XProP. Having said that, I will keep my XProP. If I don't need a main flash on camera, it's of course a better option.

I saw a demonstration of the interfaz in the video of Robert Hall; he explains how to change power for groups when V1 is in master mode. Four buttons for four groups, the same button selects a group but also can cycle the group status OFF-M-TTL. Then you have the dial to change power. With my XProP, to change the status of a group I have to: select the group, then push the button mode. It's slower. Also, for me is more logical to use only one button to select and change the group status, similar to other triggers. He comments too that it's faster compared to the V860II series.

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Well, normally you don't need a bracket for the trigger.I agree that someone who wants an on-camera flash will prefer a single master flash over a trigger + flash.Having said that, it should work to have an extra controller in your pocket for power level control, etc., as long as the on-camera flash is capable of triggering the off-camera lights.
Yes, normally, you don't need a bracket to hold a trigger. But you need to hold your trigger some way, isn't it ? So why do I use a bracket for a trigger? I need it to control (power, triggering, ON/OFF status) my other (3) flashes so my XproP needs to be accesible and connected to my camera's sync port. My PTTL flash is on camera. The XProP is not a small trigger, I need to hold it some way... maybe rubber bands or velcro straps ? I doesn't like the idea (I tried), and I have yet a spare and ligth bracket (Demb bracket). So this is at present my own way to have everything working. I just can't put my XproP on my pocket, I need it connected and accesible. My Metz can't trigger my off-camera lights, and using optical triggering is not an option for me. I have a second camera with another (Godox) trigger to control the same set of lights, so it's still more complicated. The V1 will solve 'my problem' in a better way, I suppose other options are possible, like optical triggering, but if you are on a a place with docens of people firing small flashes... forget it

QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Sure, but in that respect the AD200 is even better.
Yes, but it's more complicated to use the AD200 as on-camera flash . And in my case, I need the AD200 off-camera.


QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
I think for off-camera use, the AD200 with the roundhead option (or just its regular heads, if one doesn't need the roundhead feature) is better value for money.
I agree, for someone that mainly needs a slave flash, the AD200 can be a better option (only 50 difference or so). But my idea for the V1 is to replace my on-camera flash, so it's mainly a way to have a better on camera flash that also can be a trigger for my other lights. Using it as a slave is only something that adds value to this speedlight, not the main reason to buy it, for me.

About the round head, I can get a decent round pattern with my AD200 and the ad-s6 reflector; but with the ad-s2 + included diffuser I get a pattern even better. This is a setup more powerful than the round head. Maybe not as nice as the round head, but valid for me. I like the round head, but I do not have a specific need that justifies buying it (by the moment). The case can be different for others.

This is part of a series of pics I took some days ago, comparing the pattern (size, power, fall off) projected by my most used diffusers: ad-sX, umbrellas, etc...



Maybe the round head's pattern is better that the ad-s2, but how much?


QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
One has to be careful with such comparisons.

At "50mm" the V1 probably has a much larger spread so when used as a bounced light or in a modifier, I don't expect there to be any power level difference compared to a regular speedlight.

I guess the seemingly low GN number stems from the fact that the round illumination pattern is rather wasteful for on-camera usage when the flash is forward-firing. At a zoom setting that fills the width of the frame, there is a lot of light wasted above the top and below the bottom of the frame.

AFAIC, a roundhead is rarely needed but makes more sense as an off-camera flash.
I didn't see the point of the roundhead feature for an on-camera flash when Profoto did it with the A1 and I still don't see it with all the copycats.

The roundhead makes rotating a flag (-> BFT) easy though, which is nice for event photographers.

I also like the back-tilting option of the V1. Again, rather useful for event photographers who don't have to rotate the head before they can bounce the light from a surface behind them, or above them but avoiding direct illumination of the subject.
In general, I agree. My own opinions about this point in post #14 .

Regards.
04-06-2019, 07:02 AM - 1 Like   #37
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QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
With my XProP, to change the status of a group I have to: select the group, then push the button mode. It's slower.
Yes, I know. That's stupid.

I don't know what Godox were thinking. They could have copied the better design from the Cactus V6II.

Flashpoint's R2 MarkII refinement of the XPro fixes this issue. I so hope that a Pentax version will become available soon. I don't want to get used to the way the XPro-P behaves.

QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
The XProP is not a small trigger, I need to hold it some way...
Sure, I was hypothesising that you could use your on-camera flash for triggering, but I understand there is probably not a good option.

QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
I suppose other options are possible, like optical triggering, but if you are on a a place with docens of people firing small flashes... forget it
Yeah, nah. I'd only consider optical triggering if my radio trigger batteries were depleted, or similar.

QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
About the round head, I can get a decent round pattern with my AD200 and the ad-s6 reflector; but with the ad-s2 + included diffuser I get a pattern even better.
Nice, thanks for sharing. I might get the AD-S2 then sometime. No urgent need at the moment but could be nice to have now and then.

QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
This is part of a series of pics I took some days ago, comparing the pattern (size, power, fall off) projected by my most used diffusers: ad-sX, umbrellas, etc..
Again, thanks a lot for sharing. Very useful to see the behaviour of these reflectors.
04-06-2019, 08:01 AM - 1 Like   #38
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Yes, I know. That's stupid.I don't know what Godox were thinking. They could have copied the better design from the Cactus V6II.
Definitely Godox needs to hire some Cactus triggers designers. With ONE button, on the Cactus:
* can set a grup on/off/ttl
* support short/long press (select 1 group/all groups)
* have a led to visually see if the group is active or not

With Godox you need THREE buttons (GROUP, MODE and ALL) to do less things. Poor, really. Yes, the R2 MarkII seems to have better desing. Also, they are developing the X2... but I have at present 4 Godox triggers (plus one defective XProC that I got for free), I need to sell some before buying another one .

04-06-2019, 05:43 PM   #39
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Flash Havoc's announcement of the V1 is up:

FLASHPOINT LI-ON X R2 / GODOX V1 Speedlight For Canon – Now Available For Pre-Order! | FLASH HAVOC

The TCM function is now a huge disappointment. It's not for use as a radio master, like an XPro. The mode is not available in radio master mode (facepalm). Also, elv states categorically that the "smart" optical modes have been removed. He's also mentioning that the sticky grease and heat protection features are mostly unchanged from the V860II (sigh).

BTW, on the X2T transmitter, it looks like the group buttons also do M->TTL->off switching. [eyeroll].
04-06-2019, 11:05 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
The mode is not available in radio master mode (facepalm).
Apparently due to UI concerns (not enough buttons to support it), which turns it into a double facepalm.

QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
Also, elv states categorically that the "smart" optical modes have been removed.
Again, apparently in order to address an UI issue (speeding up mode navigation).

There are better ways than removing features in order to improve the UI experience.

QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
He's also mentioning that the sticky grease and heat protection features are mostly unchanged from the V860II (sigh).
AFAIC, a speedlight should be designed to primarily work as an on-camera flash or an off-camera flash.

An on-camera flash needs a head that can be fluidly articulated without having to press a release button and without straining the hot-shoe connection. It doesn't make sense to mount big heavy modifiers to an on-camera flash that would make the latter's head move. An on-camera flash also is most likely best served with a rectangular head in order to not sacrifice performance (GN) for on-axis usage.

An off-camera flash can benefit from a roundhead design (but should have a bare-bulb option). It probably doesn't need an articulating head because off-camera one achieves orientation control through swivels, etc. but if the head can move then it should probably have a locking button to prevent it from moving when a modifier is attached.

A hybrid design like the V1 may be regarded as ticking boxes in both camps, but can also be regarded as doing neither of the jobs well. For instance, regarding the locking button for head movement, someone needs to come up with a mechanism that allows permanently unlocking the head (obviating future lock button presses unless one wants to lock the head again), or else lock buttons should be banned from on-camera flashes.

I think speedlights should be specialists and optimise either on- or off-camera usage. Better to have two that do their job very well instead of one that is a compromise in both scenarios.

QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
BTW, on the X2T transmitter, it looks like the group buttons also do M->TTL->off switching. [eyeroll].
Why the "[eyeroll]"?

Is it because it is inconsistent with the XPro?
Is it because they could get it right on the X2T but not on the XPro?
Or do you not like the M->TTL->OFF cycle for group buttons?

Personally, I think a TTL->M->OFF cycle would be a good default, but a menu option should exist (like it does on the Cactus V6II) to reduce the cycle to "TTL->OFF" or "M->OFF", depending on user preference.

In the "manual mode" (M->OFF), I'd assign a double press on the group button (or similar) to make a one-time TTL assignment to a group. After the next shot, the group would go back to "M" but assume the manual flash power value that corresponds to the TTL exposure. In other words, it would be an automatic one-time TCM application with the default being "M".

Last edited by Class A; 04-06-2019 at 11:14 PM.
04-07-2019, 04:06 AM   #41
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
Why the "[eyeroll]"?

Is it because it is inconsistent with the XPro?
Is it because they could get it right on the X2T but not on the XPro?
Or do you not like the M->TTL->OFF cycle for group buttons?
The second one.

QuoteQuote:
Personally, I think a TTL->M->OFF cycle would be a good default...
It means two button presses if you use TCM and want to switch back to TTL. M->TTL->OFF reduces that to one button.
04-07-2019, 09:30 AM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
The second one.
Agreed!

QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
It means two button presses if you use TCM and want to switch back to TTL. M->TTL->OFF reduces that to one button.
Who wants to ever switch back to TTL?

There is only good one reason: using TCM again and the latter should be easier to achieve (as per my proposal using one-time TTL automatically followed by TCM).

I'd rather get to "OFF" from "M" with one button press, but I agree, given the current TCM-approach, moving between TTL and M is quicker with a M->TTL->OFF cycle.

Last edited by Class A; 04-07-2019 at 09:35 AM.
04-09-2019, 02:57 PM   #43
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BTW, apropos of nothing, there's a Flash Havoc announcement on the AD200 Pro.

SIGNIFICANT NEW FEATURES INCLUDE
  • Stable Color Mode 5600100K Over The Power Range
  • 9 Stop Power Range 1/256 1/1, in 1/10th Stop Increments
  • Revised, Slightly Recessed Interface, With Added Buttons
  • Revised ON / OFF Switch
  • USB Port Updated to USB-C
  • Improved No-Twist Stand Mounting Points and Umbrella Swivel
So, looks like a nice little refresh, but not enough to trade in an older AD200 for the newer one. I'm still a little flummoxed they haven't improved the display for use in the sunlight, though, given the number of complaints there have been about that.
04-09-2019, 03:51 PM   #44
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Thanks inkista, interesting info.
I have my old AD360 and I'm still deciding if keep it or change for another AD200. I'll do depending on how how much I use TTL and remote HSS control, but I've thinking about it some time. The AD360 is very simple but it has near 2x power compared to the AD200. Not an easy decision. But if I finally do, I'd buy the pro version, the price is similar to the old version.


Regards.
04-09-2019, 04:17 PM   #45
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The most significant changes on the AD200 PRO are probably:

QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
Revised, Slightly Recessed Interface
The AD200 display appears to be prone to breaking on impact, e.g., when a light stand topples over.
It would be great if the new recessed design obviated the need to use protective sleeves.

QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
Revised ON / OFF Switch
Again, the original AD200 switch appeared to be a weak spot, with spare parts not being available for regular users.
Good on Godox, if they have eliminated that weakness.

QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
I'm still a little flummoxed they haven't improved the display for use in the sunlight, though, given the number of complaints there have been about that.
The only display one really needs to be able to read is that of the trigger, no?

For the odd adjustment that is necessary on the AD200 (PRO) unit itself, one can shade the display with one hand, no?

Ideally, the display would work under all conditions but if it were a question of adding to the retail price of an AD200 PRO when using a brighter display, I personally would prefer the cheaper version.
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