[kaseki]

...

Or... how about using my YN 560 III and try to bounce of the ceiling for the full body shots, and shoot-through umbrella for the rest? ceiling is not that high...

The ceiling appears in the image above to be some other color than white or pure gray. The reflected light may have a color cast that is difficult to correct, given that some of the lighting is daylight.

The floor is another issue if reflections from it provide any significant lighting support to the models' skin surfaces, particularly when a ceiling is the light source. Depending on measurements, I would consider rolling out some black background on the floor, or maybe white or gray background. Beauty dish like reflectors can then be positioned to reflect what is available from the intended light sources upward.

Don't forget extension cords, gaffer tape, sandbags for tripods, and maybe even bricks for scrims, background papers, etc.

[clackers]

Briefly, Hattifnat, it's a different game when you're shooting two people.

Depending on the pose, one is going to block light from your key for the other.

In your first sample picture, that photographer decided to shoot frontally, resulting in a flat light scheme not too different from using a camera's pop up flash, but at least both are lit similarly. This is how Santa shots are done in shopping malls.

In the second, it was all about the pose, one girl backing off a bit so she didn't lay a shadow on the other's cheek. You can't shoot that at f1.4 even if you want to, because their eyes are at different distances from the lens. The shadows are dark, maybe three stops darker, maybe you want that dramatic contrasty look or maybe your subjects think it's too artificial.

In the third, two lights are used to solve the problem. The shadows are a stop or so darker.

If you decide to incorporate the windows in an actual shot (in cinema, those light sources are called 'incidentals'), begin with them for your camera exposure (blown? details revealed?), then change your flash powers appropriately.

[Hattifnatt]

Briefly, Hattifnat, it's a different game when you're shooting two people.

Depending on the pose, one is going to block light from your key for the other.

In your first sample picture, that photographer decided to shoot frontally, resulting in a flat light scheme not too different from using a camera's pop up flash, but at least both are lit similarly. This is how Santa shots are done in shopping malls.

In the second, it was all about the pose, one girl backing off a bit so she didn't lay a shadow on the other's cheek. You can't shoot that at f1.4 even if you want to, because their eyes are at different distances from the lens. The shadows are dark, maybe three stops darker, maybe you want that dramatic contrasty look or maybe your subjects think it's too artificial.

In the third, two lights are used to solve the problem. The shadows are a stop or so darker.

If you decide to incorporate the windows in an actual shot (in cinema, those light sources are called 'incidentals'), begin with them for your camera exposure (blown? details revealed?), then change your flash powers appropriately.

Excellent point, I thought briefly about that but now after your detailed comment I am thinking about renting the 2 lights setup. If I get an umbrella for my flash I would have 3 lights available (guess I can use my flash in optic slave mode). Thank you!

[Hattifnatt]

Update: once at the store, I have discovered that the AD400 Pro arrived on stock just on this day, so I couldn't resist and bought one. I also bought a Xpro-C trigger (the Canon version) and did some quick test at the store. It seems I can trigger the flash in manual mode, also control the power and the modeling lamp. I didn't have time to try HSS and TTL, but I'm planning to resell the Canon version and order the Xpro-P version online. I have also bought the Godox P120L parabolic octabox, so despite good advice from Clackers I will be using just one light only. I don't have much experience with light so I think I want to play with one light only and see how it goes before getting into 2 lights setups. I will keep you posted with the results.

[Hattifnatt]

Update: the session was a complete disaster I was reviewing the results today and honestly I think I have never taken such bad photos, to the point where I'm ashamed to post the results here.

The equipment performed ok. The softbox I think is particularly great, not so difficult to mount as some reviewers complained, took me like 2 minutes from the first try. And the light is awesome. The flash worked without a problem with the Xpro-C mounted on the K-1. I didn't try HSS or TTL, just triggering and adjusting the flash power.

But the framing and posing were just plain wrong. I had a lot of pictures for inspiration saved on my mobile phone and I thought it would be quite easy to reproduce them but in reality it proved so much more difficult. We couldn't even get one of them right. Maybe it's my lack of experience shooting indoors and working with a model as I mostly shoot landscapes.

An assistant would have been nice to have because I discovered that even a slight movement of the model resulted in a dramatic change of the light, so I had to adjust the light all the time which was a bit awkward since that softbox is really big. Also, even working with only one light source, I think I have to experiment a lot with light positioning.


Luckily for me the models knew about my lack of experience so they didn't get mad after seeing the results. We agreed to repeat the shooting but next time we will go for an outdoor location as I am much more comfortable shooting outdoors. Communication also went great, we had quite a few laughs.

Overall an interesting experience and hopefully I've learned a thing or two. As they say... trying is the first step.... to failure. So the lesson is don't try

[pschlute]

But the framing and posing were just plain wrong. I had a lot of pictures for inspiration saved on my mobile phone and I thought it would be quite easy to reproduce them but in reality it proved so much more difficult. We couldn't even get one of them right. Maybe it's my lack of experience shooting indoors and working with a model as I mostly shoot landscapes.

I think the psychological element of interacting with your models is more important than the technical aspects (flash/camera etc). I once tried to do some portraits for a friend. I was hopeless and she was nervous and we ended up like giggling school kids. Rubbish results.

I am sticking to dogs

[clackers]

An assistant would have been nice to have because I discovered that even a slight movement of the model resulted in a dramatic change of the light, so I had to adjust the light all the time which was a bit awkward since that softbox is really big.

Big is actually forgiving!

A cheap shoot-thru umbrella is the best place to start for a beginner because it throws so much light everywhere that almost any pose or subject works, from food to people.

The hardest are the beauty dish and snoot, because the positioning has to be absolutely spot on. And the more intelligent the model, the better. But the looks you get are stunning.

A softbox is somewhere in between.

I'm sure your next session will go better, Hattifnat, we all know that's what photography's about.

Just to back up Peter's comments, once we get frustrated by any kind of difficulties in a session (personal or technical), it's over.

The girls can be talking and laughing with each other but the moment they step forward to be shot by you and you haven't matched that mood, you're not joining in because you're distracted by problems, that's the end.

Amateur models will appear lifeless in their expressions and even pros will be mechanical/not authentic.

Very hard to get keepers!

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Last edited by clackers; 07-08-2019 at 12:08 PM.

[Hattifnatt]

I think the psychological element of interacting with your models is more important than the technical aspects (flash/camera etc).

Interaction with the models was ok I guess, we were quite relaxed not feeling awkward or anything. Also, eventually I would have found some light positioning to be happy with. I think the biggest failure was my inability to compose indoor... maybe because most of the times I'm shooting outdoors. Also, they were amateur models and I didn't give the best indications for posing, that also hurt.

Just to back up Peter's comments, once we get frustrated by any kind of difficulties in a session (personal or technical), it's over.

That is very true. At some point I went into panic mode because all the shots were looking bad and it only went downhill from there.

I'm sure your next session will go better, Hattifnat, we all know that's what photography's about.

I hope so also. But next time I will try an outdoor location just to get into my comfort zone a little bit, or at least maybe a bar or pub