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06-28-2019, 11:37 PM   #1
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Cactus RF60x Wake Up?

I quite often leave my Cactus RF60x Units in the softbox, I have them timed to go to sleep 15mins etc, suits me fine.

However, when I want to go and use them again it seems I must pull the velcro back, reach in and either toggle them off and on again or hit the test button to wake them up

Is there no way from the V6ii trigger to send a signal to wake them up and come back on?


Cheers,

BB

06-29-2019, 12:23 AM - 1 Like   #2
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Unfortunately they don't respond to radio signals to wake up. You can press any button on the flash unit to wake it up..... I usually use the Next button. All settings remain unaffected, and you have options within the menu to adjust the sleep timeout setting.
06-29-2019, 12:27 AM   #3
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Radio reception always on would consume too much power in sleep mode.
06-29-2019, 02:12 AM - 1 Like   #4
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Fair do's. I was just checking I hadn't missed a setting or something. I'll make a small opening in the velcro diffuser panel and poke it with something to wake it up "oi! hey! wake up!" hehe

06-29-2019, 07:28 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I quite often leave my Cactus RF60x Units in the softbox, I have them timed to go to sleep 15mins etc, suits me fine.

However, when I want to go and use them again it seems I must pull the velcro back, reach in and either toggle them off and on again or hit the test button to wake them up

Is there no way from the V6ii trigger to send a signal to wake them up and come back on?


Cheers,

BB
I'm testing one of mine to see how this works. RF60X set for 5 minutes to sleep mode; display timeout is much shorter. Test light seems to stay on past the 5 min limit. Firing the unit from the V6II test button seems to work. Shorting the center pin to the hot shoe base seems to work. I still have to see what happens after a longer wait time, or when the test light goes off (if ever).

Anyway, I was thinking that if you used a hot-shoe receptacle that has an x-sync female connector or flying lead with female connector, and adapted a push-button switch with x-sync male connector, it might be possible to wake up the unit without having to reach in. The display won't wake up, but that can't be seen embedded in a softbox. More to come .... [one hopes]

Edit: I probably hadn't waited long enough. Once the test light goes out, the V6II cannot test flash the unit. However, shorting the center pin to the flange wakes up the unit, including the display. !!! Now to see if this is still true after an hour.

Edit 2: After about 70 minutes, I again shorted the center pin to the flange. No flash occurred, but the display lit up and the test light (at 1/128) almost immediately lit up. If this isn't enough time delay for your work flow, Bruce, I could also try a 2 hour test, enough for a liquid lunch break.

Conclusion: It seems that an external, normally-open switch, connected by a PC/X-synch cable to a hot shoe adapter, should allow wake-up without having to get one's hand into the softbox. I have been looking for hot shoe adapters from the ancient past, but so far I have only found 5P Pentax cable connector hot shoe adapters. (Two of the 5P cable wires are connected internally in Pentax flashes to the hot shoe center pin and flange, so some type of adapter using 5P cable, two 5P F hot shoe adapters, and a switch to hot shoe jury-rig could also work.)

Something like this from B&H could be used: Vello Universal Hot Shoe Adapter - PC Connection + Top HSA-PSU

Last edited by kaseki; 06-29-2019 at 09:06 AM.
06-29-2019, 12:20 PM   #6
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Even easier, I have a no-name trigger device from the past that integrates a hot shoe receptacle and a photosensor (and presumably some interface electronics). Attached to the RF60X unit under test (UUT) with the UUT flash allowed to time out, and subjected to a test flash from another RF60X reflected off of a rug, this trigger device closes the circuit and wakes up the RF60X UUT. This result implies that one could acquire such devices, attach them to one's array of RF60Xs, and use a spare flash (or a flash piggy-backed on the V6II) to wake up all the flashes.

I assume these trigger devices are still being manufactured. Mine is roughly a one inch cube with a tripod fitting on one face, the hot shoe on the opposite face, a photosensor on the face that would look forward, and three smooth faces, one with a "made in Hong Kong" sticker. Sensitivity to the wake-up flash when buried in a softbox remains to be determined. The device does not seem to affect the RF link from the V6II.

It may be useful to test whether even this device is necessary; after all, there is already a flash sensor buried in the flash head looking forward. What is its state in sleep mode? Answers from me to additional questions of this type will have to wait until tomorrow.
06-29-2019, 05:26 PM - 1 Like   #7
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The image below is of a comparable device I found multiple listings of on eBay. I was unable to find a listing at B&H even after expending considerable time searching.
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06-30-2019, 01:32 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote
I'm testing one of mine to see how this works. RF60X set for 5 minutes to sleep mode; display timeout is much shorter. Test light seems to stay on past the 5 min limit. Firing the unit from the V6II test button seems to work. Shorting the center pin to the hot shoe base seems to work. I still have to see what happens after a longer wait time, or when the test light goes off (if ever).

Anyway, I was thinking that if you used a hot-shoe receptacle that has an x-sync female connector or flying lead with female connector, and adapted a push-button switch with x-sync male connector, it might be possible to wake up the unit without having to reach in. The display won't wake up, but that can't be seen embedded in a softbox. More to come .... [one hopes]

Edit: I probably hadn't waited long enough. Once the test light goes out, the V6II cannot test flash the unit. However, shorting the center pin to the flange wakes up the unit, including the display. !!! Now to see if this is still true after an hour.

Edit 2: After about 70 minutes, I again shorted the center pin to the flange. No flash occurred, but the display lit up and the test light (at 1/128) almost immediately lit up. If this isn't enough time delay for your work flow, Bruce, I could also try a 2 hour test, enough for a liquid lunch break.

Conclusion: It seems that an external, normally-open switch, connected by a PC/X-synch cable to a hot shoe adapter, should allow wake-up without having to get one's hand into the softbox. I have been looking for hot shoe adapters from the ancient past, but so far I have only found 5P Pentax cable connector hot shoe adapters. (Two of the 5P cable wires are connected internally in Pentax flashes to the hot shoe center pin and flange, so some type of adapter using 5P cable, two 5P F hot shoe adapters, and a switch to hot shoe jury-rig could also work.)

Something like this from B&H could be used: Vello Universal Hot Shoe Adapter - PC Connection + Top HSA-PSU
QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote
Even easier, I have a no-name trigger device from the past that integrates a hot shoe receptacle and a photosensor (and presumably some interface electronics). Attached to the RF60X unit under test (UUT) with the UUT flash allowed to time out, and subjected to a test flash from another RF60X reflected off of a rug, this trigger device closes the circuit and wakes up the RF60X UUT. This result implies that one could acquire such devices, attach them to one's array of RF60Xs, and use a spare flash (or a flash piggy-backed on the V6II) to wake up all the flashes.

I assume these trigger devices are still being manufactured. Mine is roughly a one inch cube with a tripod fitting on one face, the hot shoe on the opposite face, a photosensor on the face that would look forward, and three smooth faces, one with a "made in Hong Kong" sticker. Sensitivity to the wake-up flash when buried in a softbox remains to be determined. The device does not seem to affect the RF link from the V6II.

It may be useful to test whether even this device is necessary; after all, there is already a flash sensor buried in the flash head looking forward. What is its state in sleep mode? Answers from me to additional questions of this type will have to wait until tomorrow.
Hey! Thanks for all of this, it's really appreciated, however... it's me yer talking to, the kid that failed school and has only two brain cells so you will need to hold my hand more in explaining what you're doing (with less techno lingo) for me to grasp all of this, I don't even understand this 'shorting the center pin' etc.

I'm really down for buying small little adapters to getting all this to work, I don't mind that at all, it's becoming that much of a pain (especially with new softboxes and their strong velcro vice like grip!). Right now I have turned an area of my home into a studio, I'm doing this so that I can learn my craft better. I am so sick of setting up and packing away that I now have 80 and 120cm octaboxes fully set up all the time, speedlight inside. Really the only time I am opening the velcro seam is to turn them on or gel one (which isn't often). The idea of pushing a button on a trigger or something to wake them all up (I do have two RF60x units), seems like a worthwhile investment. I have one AF360FGZII connected to a V6ii (rx) to a beauty dish which is not a pain to switch on because that flash exists on the outside of that modifier. I guess other modifiers can be like that also (Bowens mount) and thus that too becomes less of a pain to wake up. But further down the line I could be doing day long sessions and perhaps having the lights set to far shorter auto turn off times (like 5mins, to conserve as much power as possible) and will need to perhaps wake them up quite often, it will be a pain to have to constantly get out from behind the camera to signal them to wake up if that is the case...

So... the aforementioned vello cube thingy, you put this where? on top of the V6ii (tx) and then run a cable from that cube to the PC Sync port on the camera? Or does it go on the hotshoe of the RF60x unit (not a problem because my RF60x units connect to softboxes via an adapter plate from the screw hole on the side of the unit, the hotshoes are barely used).

06-30-2019, 06:48 AM   #9
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Ah! I see I was unclear. In addition, there could be different terminology used in Antipodean English than 'Mercan English.

"short" means connecting a low resistance electrical current conductor between two electrical contacts or circuit elements. In this case it meant momentarily connecting a wire between the speedlight's hot shoe center pin and the outer metal flange. This performs the same action that the camera performs when operating a simple one-pin speedlight like the Cactus.

Before getting into another description of the experiment, please let me specify some temporary terminology to shorten my typing time.

"trigger" == no-name photodetector-to-hot-shoe flash trigger (as illustrated in message 7). These were historically used to trigger off-camera flashes without using cables.

"UUT" == unit under test; in my case an Cactus RF60X. This is the speedlight being caused to wake up

"wake-up flash" == a second Cactus RF60X used to produce a flash in the room because it was handy; it could be any other flash in the room

Photodetector trigger experiment:
The trigger is put onto the UUT and the clamp tightened up. The UUT is turned on and tested with the test button, and with the V6II. The UUT is allowed to go to sleep. Mine is set for 5 minutes. After a period of sleep time the wake-up flash is fired such that a diffuse reflection of its flash can impinge on the trigger's lens.
Result: the UUT wakes up. If there is sufficient stored flash charge in the UUT, it will also flash. So far I've successfully performed this experiment out to 70 minutes after the UUT has gone to sleep.

Broader implications:
Any device, wired, flash triggered, or RF triggered that can "short" the hot-shoe center pin to the flange of a Cactus RF60X will wake it up out to some not yet determined point in time. With the photo trigger device, no batteries are needed and no wire and switch are needed to perform the "short."

Present unknowns:
  • Does the photo triggering wake-up of "n" Cactus RF60X units, each with an attached photo trigger, lead to them re-triggering each other? (I won't be able to test this until I receive a few more photo triggers.) [This could be an issue with operating HSS.]
  • Does the photo triggering wake-up of "n" Cactus RF60X units, each with an attached photo trigger, lead to any post-wake-up change in their configuration/menu/set-up that is different from what the V6II is trying to establish?
  • Are the photo triggers sensitive enough that a flash set off anywhere reasonable in the studio will be sensed within a soft box or other modifier located anywhere practical within the studio? How dim can it be? Do I need a 10,000 CP White Lightening or will a GN10 flash do?
  • Are there 'dumb' and 'cheap' wireless hot-shoe triggers that are sufficiently stingy with their batteries to outlast several photo sessions and can be used instead to get around needing sufficient wake-up flash power -- whatever it turns out the be?

I can imagine a lot of experiments that might be useful/necessary/interesting and hope to perform a few such in the future. Thanks for bringing this sleep issue up Bruce; it is an issue that would have sooner or later annoyed me into finding a solution.

kas

P.S. Please let me know if further clarification is needed. I'm happy to help.

Last edited by kaseki; 06-30-2019 at 06:54 AM.
06-30-2019, 03:25 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote
Ah! I see I was unclear. In addition, there could be different terminology used in Antipodean English than 'Mercan English.

"short" means connecting a low resistance electrical current conductor between two electrical contacts or circuit elements. In this case it meant momentarily connecting a wire between the speedlight's hot shoe center pin and the outer metal flange. This performs the same action that the camera performs when operating a simple one-pin speedlight like the Cactus.

Before getting into another description of the experiment, please let me specify some temporary terminology to shorten my typing time.

"trigger" == no-name photodetector-to-hot-shoe flash trigger (as illustrated in message 7). These were historically used to trigger off-camera flashes without using cables.

"UUT" == unit under test; in my case an Cactus RF60X. This is the speedlight being caused to wake up

"wake-up flash" == a second Cactus RF60X used to produce a flash in the room because it was handy; it could be any other flash in the room

Photodetector trigger experiment:
The trigger is put onto the UUT and the clamp tightened up. The UUT is turned on and tested with the test button, and with the V6II. The UUT is allowed to go to sleep. Mine is set for 5 minutes. After a period of sleep time the wake-up flash is fired such that a diffuse reflection of its flash can impinge on the trigger's lens.
Result: the UUT wakes up. If there is sufficient stored flash charge in the UUT, it will also flash. So far I've successfully performed this experiment out to 70 minutes after the UUT has gone to sleep.

Broader implications:
Any device, wired, flash triggered, or RF triggered that can "short" the hot-shoe center pin to the flange of a Cactus RF60X will wake it up out to some not yet determined point in time. With the photo trigger device, no batteries are needed and no wire and switch are needed to perform the "short."

Present unknowns:
  • Does the photo triggering wake-up of "n" Cactus RF60X units, each with an attached photo trigger, lead to them re-triggering each other? (I won't be able to test this until I receive a few more photo triggers.) [This could be an issue with operating HSS.]
  • Does the photo triggering wake-up of "n" Cactus RF60X units, each with an attached photo trigger, lead to any post-wake-up change in their configuration/menu/set-up that is different from what the V6II is trying to establish?
  • Are the photo triggers sensitive enough that a flash set off anywhere reasonable in the studio will be sensed within a soft box or other modifier located anywhere practical within the studio? How dim can it be? Do I need a 10,000 CP White Lightening or will a GN10 flash do?
  • Are there 'dumb' and 'cheap' wireless hot-shoe triggers that are sufficiently stingy with their batteries to outlast several photo sessions and can be used instead to get around needing sufficient wake-up flash power -- whatever it turns out the be?

I can imagine a lot of experiments that might be useful/necessary/interesting and hope to perform a few such in the future. Thanks for bringing this sleep issue up Bruce; it is an issue that would have sooner or later annoyed me into finding a solution.

kas

P.S. Please let me know if further clarification is needed. I'm happy to help.
Awesome!

So if I have this understood correctly;

1) you are using two of these;

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/attachments/125-flashes-lighting-studio/...-up-s-l500.jpg

One is on the hotshoe of a RF60x, the other ontop of a V6ii? And you simply press the button of one of them (on top of the v6ii unit) and it wakes it up?

For a ebay search for myself, what do I put in the search field? What are these little fellas called? 'photodetector hotshoe trigger'?

2) Thus far you have gone 70mins and this 'hack' still works, waking up a v6ii unit? But you might need one on every flash unit to wake them up? Or are we running the other RF60x units in a different mode so that when one RF60x units wakes up it might fire a small burst of flash and wakes the other units up?

3) You're not sure if there is some weirdness going on from the wake up, such as a v6ii setting gone screwy etc?

4) You're not sure if the units were being used in HSS fashion if the wake up will work?

I'm going to clarify my own situation more thoroughly as it may help you understand further my long term intentions as it also adds a slight twist to the issue.

Currently I have turned a section of my home into a permanent studio of sorts, this means no packing away of softboxes, the wife and children (for the time being) have to put up with the large modifiers on stands kicking around the home. This is actually a huge benefit to me as it allows incredibly quick setting up times for practising. Even still photography stuff like this and quick test portrait work like this would not have been so easily performed, to the point I would have (in the past) just shrugged off the attempt due to the lengthy setting up and packing away ordeal.

So right now this thread was born from this perspective in that it's slightly annoying to reach in and turn all the units on.

I own;
2x RF60x
1x AF360FGZII
2x V6ii (one is in Rx mode for the 360II)

Here's the twist;

3 Speedlights is not enough for the work I want to do, I'm working towards a 4 light setup and the last light I will be collecting shall be a strobe. Currently I am debating between an AD600 or 2x AD200 wth a ab-d2 adapter. This would then bring an Xpro-P trigger into the mix which I believe lacks the necessary hotshoe for your wee trigger wake up thingies. So it might be I have to take the Xpro-P trigger off, put the wee cube thingy on, fire it to wake the other units, and then put the Xpro-P trigger back on. Or... I stay with a V6ii and somehow trigger the Godox strobe via stacking some other Godox trigger on top of the V6ii? This part I am a little hazy on. The idea is all the other speedlites would be triggered optically from the main strobe, put into use as fill lighting, 2x rim lights (in gridded strip boxes), 1x beauty dish and the strobe in a large 7ft box.

But why Bruce? Where is all of this going?

I've been a member of various groups for awhile now, studying how to tackle studio portrait work and the various approaches. My long term goal is to break into the school photography market and do things 'a little different' to the norm. I feel (at least where I live) there is a market to exploit here (whereas other paid work such as events and weddings there are heaps of equally skilled togs to choose from).
With school photography you'll be wanting to kill all ambient light in the shoot, not rely on any room 'bounce' of lighting. But you'll also want 'happy' vibe shots of the kids, not grungy shots (which tend to come from the use of fewer lights), so 4 lights will be necessary to kill backdrop shadows, separate the subjects from the backdrop and in general present them well and balanced.
A lot of the wired strobes are too powerful even at their lowest settings (SKii for example), and this might explain a lot of the school photography shots that present to being flat and boring as the tog has to stop down heavily for the shot. I'm looking to go for far wider aperture shots where I think kids look their best, it's not the norm or typical but I think it's what parents are looking for.

So in all of this I can see myself set up in a school hall, I have mapped out my lighting plan from extensive testing at home, X marks the spot of where A, B, C and D lights go, and I have the appropriate power settings set up (which can be tweaked a little on the day).
In reality I can see some breaks of 5-10mins between class shoots etc, and it's this constant going back to the speedlights to wake them up I am fearful of. The strobe I end up purchasing may be a/c powered, my camera will be a/c powered, but really I do need to think about carrying plenty of battery power and using sleeptimes where possible to conserve energy I think.

But all of this applies to home as well, and practicing, I will want to resume from one day to the next and it's just this constant opening of speedboxes and fiddling with turning lights on again that is a tad annoying. It may be the nature of things and I have to put up with it, but your contribution here gives me hope!

So anyway, if you can shed some light on your thoughts to this issue when factoring in that my final setup might be based around another trigger like the Xpro-P etc, I'd value that. I'm considering two AD200's as there is also some outdoor class and even entire school shots done on the Oval etc, so I will also need significant power to reach across those kinda numbers as well.
06-30-2019, 04:36 PM   #11
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This is interesting to me. Not sure I understand exactly.
The rf60 is radio triggered from the cactus on camera. The rf60 can't be woken up via radio but can be via a physical short trigger. A cactus receiver on the hotshoe will be radio triggered and in turn will short trigger the flash. Therefore if the rf60 was on a cactus rx the cactus tx test flash would wake it up?
The photo diode basically is a remote trigger that is set of by light instead of radio.
I think this is correct but not positive.
06-30-2019, 05:28 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Awesome!

So if I have this understood correctly;

1) you are using two of these;

https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/attachments/125-flashes-lighting-studio/...-up-s-l500.jpg

One is on the hotshoe of a RF60x, the other ontop of a V6ii? And you simply press the button of one of them (on top of the v6ii unit) and it wakes it up?

For a ebay search for myself, what do I put in the search field? What are these little fellas called? 'photodetector hotshoe trigger'?
... ... ...
I see that I have met my match in comment prolixity.


I still wasn't communicating effectively. So let me describe a potential studio setup using 4 Cactus RF60X, one V6II on camera, one AF360-whatever Pentax flash on top of the V6II.
Each RF60X would have one photodetector "trigger" module mounted to its hot shoe. Hence in this case of four RF60X, four trigger modules are needed. Any RF60X that is ON and awake receives its commands and triggering from the V6II. Any RF60X that is ON and asleep can be awakened by test flashing the AF360-whatever, momentarily filling the room with light, a bit of which each trigger's photodetector detects. The detected flash signal causes each trigger to close a transistor (guessing here) current path, thereby effectively shorting the center pin of each RF60X to the shoe plate (treated as functional ground).

I do not think that some other flash being controlled by a second V6II would be capable of being awakened using this approach. Perhaps with the photodetector module mounted under the V6II, with the V6II in receiver mode and passing through the center pin it could work. I may be able to test that. For now, assume that this is an RF60X wake-up solution only, so these flashes, if mixed with others, might best be the ones chosen for burying within softboxes.

I have been experimenting with how dim the wake-up flash has to be, but the results only apply to one room's configuration. A trigger module aimed horizontally toward a room corner diagonally opposite to the position of the wake-up flash needs the wake-up flash to be aimed at the ceiling over the RF60X when the distance is ~ 10 ft and the wake-up flash is set to 1/128. Illuminating the ceiling well behind the asleep flash doesn't work at this distance for this power. However, at 1/1 power, the asleep flash is awakened even when the wake-up flash is aimed well away from it.

I'll try a soft box test when I can to get a feeling for the sensitivity.

Note: once the RF60X flash has been awakened, or any time it is awake, a strong enough flash in the room will cause the trigger module to perform its shorting function, and the RF60X it is attached to will flash at whatever power setting it is set at. One imagines that this will occur at the timing that the V6II would establish anyway. However, when one has different flashes in separate groups {A, B, C, D} and one tests a single group, or wants to shoot with a single group, the flash energy will likely trigger flashes in the other groups. In perhaps unusual setups, this could be a problem. It would also be a problem for multiple photographers depending on channel separation to isolate flash triggering. Any using this photodetector triggering scheme (intended only for convenience with soft boxes) would get interference from other flashes. This is probably a non issue.

I will try to address your further questions in additional messages.

---------- Post added 30th Jun 2019 at 20:43 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by swanlefitte Quote
This is interesting to me. Not sure I understand exactly.
The rf60 is radio triggered from the cactus on camera. The rf60 can't be woken up via radio but can be via a physical short trigger. A cactus receiver on the hotshoe will be radio triggered and in turn will short trigger the flash. Therefore if the rf60 was on a cactus rx the cactus tx test flash would wake it up?
The photo diode basically is a remote trigger that is set of by light instead of radio.
I think this is correct but not positive.
I think this is correct but not tested by me. I don't think I can test this condition.

If the trigger module is mounted below a V6II, I think the photo diode trigger module state might potentially be passed through the V6II to whatever sleeping flash is mounted to the V6II. I don't know what happens if the V6II is also asleep. However, a simple resistance test with a V6II OFF and then in RX mode showed that even the flange on the bottom is isolated from the flange on the top, so another set of experiments will be needed to determine what it can do.

---------- Post added 30th Jun 2019 at 20:58 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
2) Thus far you have gone 70mins and this 'hack' still works, waking up a v6ii unit? But you might need one on every flash unit to wake them up? Or are we running the other RF60x units in a different mode so that when one RF60x units wakes up it might fire a small burst of flash and wakes the other units up?
No. I have gone 70 minutes and woken up an RF60X with this trigger module mounted to it using another RF60X as a handy flash, but I could have used an AF500FTZ or AF540FGZ [designations may be mixed] or any other flash at hand to be the wake-up flash. Today I think I was successful at roughly two hours, but it wasn't timed so should be ignored for now. There was also a longer period, also untimed, for which the RF60X flash with the trigger module stayed unconscious when subjected to a flash. I'll try to get a boundary time.

Each RF60X needs a photodetector trigger module to wake it up, but only one flash should be needed to awaken a set of them.

The only experimentation I have done with my V6II is check that it can control the RF60X being tested when the RF60X is awake and the trigger module is connected to the hot shoe.

kas
Hacker Industrius

---------- Post added 30th Jun 2019 at 21:10 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
3) You're not sure if there is some weirdness going on from the wake up, such as a v6ii setting gone screwy etc?

4) You're not sure if the units were being used in HSS fashion if the wake up will work?
3) Not applicable

4) The unit was not in HSS, and in any case, the action being tested is wake-up. I did express a concern that speedlights set to HSS mode could, on each pulse emitted, trigger the other speedlights in a manner not helpful to the HSS case. So I mentioned it as a case needing experimental verification.

Example: Three RF60X, each with a connected photo trigger, all mounted to a tri-mount inside an umbrella soft box, and used for HSS in the daytime. There will be a lot of light between the umbrella reflector and the softbox fabric cover. Hence one expects that every programmed HSS flash from the speedlights will be detected by the three photo modules being used, and they will try to trigger the speedlights while the emitted flashes are pulsing. Is this ignored? Or does it cause each speedlight to dump all of its charge in one pulse and defeat HSS? Citizens want to know.

---------- Post added 30th Jun 2019 at 21:27 ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
So anyway, if you can shed some light on your thoughts to this issue when factoring in that my final setup might be based around another trigger like the Xpro-P etc, I'd value that. I'm considering two AD200's as there is also some outdoor class and even entire school shots done on the Oval etc, so I will also need significant power to reach across those kinda numbers as well.
First, I don't have any smart flashes that are relevant besides Pentax flashes and Cactus flashes. Paul E. Buff White Lightening units aren't smart and don't count. In particular, I don't have any of those you name above. Studio flashes running from ac wall power may never go to sleep so they aren't part of the problem space.

Second, I am an amateur, and my studio knowledge from books greatly exceeds my studio knowledge from practice.

Third, I will re-iterate what I hope came across in my earlier comments: Those flashes that can take a photodetector trigger module by hot shoe, and which can be awakened by shorting their hot-shoe center pins to their flanges, and which are asleep, can all be awakened at once with one flash, whether part of the configuration and test triggered, or a speedlight pulled from one's pocket and used just as a wake-up call. Flashes without a hot shoe, but which have a PC X-sync connector, might be wakeable quasi-remotely by connecting a PC adapter to the photodetector trigger module. I think the units for sale on eBay may have the plug already installed. TBD. Otherwise, hot shoe to PC adapters are available. The important question is how to wake up any particular manufacturer's model. This may only be determinable by experiment.

Last edited by kaseki; 06-30-2019 at 06:31 PM.
06-30-2019, 06:48 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
For a ebay search for myself, what do I put in the search field? What are these little fellas called? 'photodetector hotshoe trigger'?
I bought from this vendor, who is in the USA. joesphotoauction2000 on eBay

There are others selling from China that may be closer or faster. I forget my actual search terms, but eBay decided to make up their own. Their generic topic is
"Camera Flash Slaves & Trigger Systems"

Try this: Hot Shoe Camera Optical Slaves/Flash Activated


Last edited by kaseki; 06-30-2019 at 06:56 PM.
07-01-2019, 04:27 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by kaseki Quote
Forgot this question:



I bought from this vendor, who is in the USA. joesphotoauction2000 on eBay

There are others selling from China that may be closer or faster. I forget my actual search terms, but eBay decided to make up their own. Their generic topic is
"Camera Flash Slaves & Trigger Systems"

Try this: Hot Shoe Camera Optical Slaves/Flash Activated

All of that has been HEAPS helpful, I think I get it now.

In addition to all those flashes I listed I did actually leave one out, the AF201FG. Could I simply hold this and push the test button? Or would it have to be mounted to the V6ii? It sounds as tho it doesn't, the sudden flash of light is what sets the optical trigger thingy majigs off etc.

I know the AD200's don't have hot shoes, in fact most strobes do not, but they do have the screw holes to take attachments etc, it should in theory be possible to get them to hold a optical trigger cube thingy, and then run a sync cable from them into the AD200 unit (if it has one?). Tbh tho, strobes sit outside softboxes, so waking them up is not as painful as the ones deep inside. It could also be that Godox and AD200's don't even have sleep modes, or have them and they wake up better, I'll find that out.

So I found some; SYK-4 Wireless Hot Shoe Flash Remote Controller Slave Trigger w/ PC Sync Socket | eBay

I would need one for every light (in theory)? I guess I could buy three, see how I go, not too pricey...
07-01-2019, 07:23 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
All of that has been HEAPS helpful, I think I get it now.

In addition to all those flashes I listed I did actually leave one out, the AF201FG. Could I simply hold this and push the test button? Or would it have to be mounted to the V6ii? It sounds as tho it doesn't, the sudden flash of light is what sets the optical trigger thingy majigs off etc.

I know the AD200's don't have hot shoes, in fact most strobes do not, but they do have the screw holes to take attachments etc, it should in theory be possible to get them to hold a optical trigger cube thingy, and then run a sync cable from them into the AD200 unit (if it has one?). Tbh tho, strobes sit outside softboxes, so waking them up is not as painful as the ones deep inside. It could also be that Godox and AD200's don't even have sleep modes, or have them and they wake up better, I'll find that out.

So I found some; SYK-4 Wireless Hot Shoe Flash Remote Controller Slave Trigger w/ PC Sync Socket | eBay

I would need one for every light (in theory)? I guess I could buy three, see how I go, not too pricey...
As you can see, your selection includes a PC sync socket, so that could be wired to any strobes with such sockets that don't have active hot shoes. You need one module each for hot-shoe speedflashes and cables for any other flashes that can be wakened this way. (There is no guarantee yet that speedlights or strobes other than Cactus RF60X speedlights can be wakened this way.)

In other news, a timed two-hour delay from RF60X turn on (probably 1:50 from sleep, but I wasn't watching) was successfully awakened using this flash trigger technique. Aiming for 2.5 hours now.
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