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07-06-2019, 10:00 PM   #1
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Three flash setup Pentax K-p, Yongnuo YN560 III and IV , AF540FGZ II

Hello,

So I am testing some portrait setup playing with multiple light sources. I try to do a setup, when off camera AF540FGZ is a main source of light through WiFi, on camera flash does some front light filling and Yongnuos are as Slave 2 mode (not reacting on preflash but on main flash) filliign all else based on preference.

The problem, I cannot make them fire all at once. Some all always off sync. How to succed, or maybe suggestion to reorganize them?

07-07-2019, 04:29 AM   #2
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Moved to slightly more appropriate forum.
07-07-2019, 08:20 AM   #3
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Try longer exposure time for synchronisation. Shortest x-time may not work with this setup.
07-07-2019, 10:22 AM   #4
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I suspect that different firing times times of your flashes caused by trigger propagation variations. Propagation time will undoubtedly be different through wifi and wireless, and the on-camera flash will almost certainly fire before the wifi and wireless flashes. Mixing brands and models of flashes may also be a factor as the delay between trigger and flash may vary between the units you are using. When I use multiple flashes they are all the same make and model and I trigger them all through identical wireless slave units. As Zapp noted you may simply need a longer exposure time.

07-07-2019, 03:37 PM   #5
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Disclaimer: I am not a Pentax shooter. But I think you're trying to mix two incompatible types of wireless (optical) flash triggering together.

QuoteOriginally posted by Belcik Quote
So I am testing some portrait setup playing with multiple light sources. I try to do a setup, when off camera AF540FGZ is a main source of light through WiFi,
AFAIK, Pentax does not use wi-fi (or any radio signalling) for its wireless flash system. It's what I would call a "smart" optical wireless system, where light signals (multiple preflashes) communicate settings changes to the remote flashes from the camera, before the main burst sync signal is sent to fire the flashes.

QuoteQuote:
... on camera flash does some front light filling and Yongnuos are as Slave 2 mode (not reacting on preflash but on main flash) filliign all else based on preference.
And the "dumb" S2 mode on the Yongnuos is expecting only a single pre-flash for TTL metering. So the Pentax "smart" wireless is tripping the Yongnuo flashes early. Some may be set on a low enough power setting to recycle in time for the main burst, while others are not.

QuoteQuote:
The problem, I cannot make them fire all at once. Some all always off sync. How to succed, or maybe suggestion to reorganize them?
This is expected behavior, if you've got the pop-up flash in wireless master/transmitter mode for Pentax's "smart" system. Turn that mode off, and just use it as a regular on-camera TTL flash, with the Yongnuos in S2. Then everything should sync together. But you won't be able to use the AF540FGZ off-camera this way, unless it also has a "dumb" optical S2 mode.

It might be simpler to just get a YN-560-TX transmitter for the camera, so you can power-control the YN-560 III/IVs and an additional YN-560 III/IV/660/560Li for a three-light setup and save the AF540 for on-camera work.

Last edited by inkista; 07-07-2019 at 03:45 PM.
07-07-2019, 05:30 PM   #6
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We certainly don't have "WiFi" as a control technology for flashes with our Pentax cameras, that's right Inkista. It's likely I think that the OP is confusing the terms WiFi and Wireless, and has not considered the matter of flash communication technologies or read up on it.

I think we need to be told exactly how the flashes are being triggered, ie if its an on-camera flash then what one exactly, and what wireless mode is set. The fact that he did not specify this suggests he did not appreciate the significance of the on-camera flash settings.

It may also be that he believed the communication to the flashes is provided by a (non existent) internal radio system, and not by the optical signals from the camera flash.
07-07-2019, 11:32 PM   #7
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Epic fail? Communication between K-P and Pentax Flash is optical? I know that yongnuos work on flash.




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07-07-2019, 11:53 PM   #8
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"Epic" fail....? I'd say there's been a few even bigger ones reported here over the years....

07-08-2019, 05:46 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
"Epic" fail....? I'd say there's been a few even bigger ones reported here over the years....


Ha! I was actually referring to myself. It is hard to believe though, as there is even channel selection on communication between K-P and flash.


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07-08-2019, 11:05 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belcik Quote
Ha! I was actually referring to myself. It is hard to believe though, as there is even channel selection on communication between K-P and flash...
Most "smart" optical systems allow for channels as well as group control (that's part of the smart stuff). Channels basically just keep one photographer from setting off another nearby photographer's remote flashes inadvertently. The "dumb" systems can be set off by any flash burst: even one from a P&S camera. See this Strobist article.
07-09-2019, 12:56 AM   #11
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Yes, the term "channels" is probably most commonly associated with television networks, so it's not surprising that it only adds to any assumptions about how the flashes communicate.

"Wireless Channel" as a setting reference does not include a definition of exactly what the communication technology is, so it can be used for a range of system types. It's just one of those things that needs some pre knowledge or research before diving in and using the equipment.

We don't have any documentation to guide us that I'm aware of, but my assumption is that the channel setting must be included in every pre flash as part of the coded optical signals, so that only those flashes set to the same channel will react to those pre flashes.
07-09-2019, 04:08 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
We don't have any documentation to guide us that I'm aware of, but my assumption is that the channel setting must be included in every pre flash as part of the coded optical signals, so that only those flashes set to the same channel will react to those pre flashes.
That's my assumption as well. I really doubt they're using different optical frequencies (colored light signals). I assume it's similar to how digital ID codes are being used on radio triggering vs. radio frequency/analog channels.
07-09-2019, 10:03 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Belcik Quote
Ha! I was actually referring to myself. It is hard to believe though, as there is even channel selection on communication between K-P and flash.
It's not WiFi.

The brands all did optical communication (with different channels) long before WiFi. It's what's listed in the manuals, too.

I think you need to download McGregni's guide, to be honest!
07-10-2019, 03:37 AM - 2 Likes   #14
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Good idea Clackers, but even I myself back away from referring people to them now.

Reading up and studying things in a written format is seeming more and more like a lost art. It's my impression that the vast majority of newer people here really just want to find out things from YouTube videos. And also they often only want to see a video that answers their exact specific concern, and generally are not interested in a written guide that builds an overall solid base of knowledge.
07-10-2019, 05:57 AM - 2 Likes   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by mcgregni Quote
Good idea Clackers, but even I myself back away from referring people to them now.

Reading up and studying things in a written format is seeming more and more like a lost art. It's my impression that the vast majority of newer people here really just want to find out things from YouTube videos. And also they often only want to see a video that answers their exact specific concern, and generally are not interested in a written guide that builds an overall solid base of knowledge.
Sadly, I think there is a big tendency, perhaps encouraged by YouTube, to simply buy gear, take it out and expect to be able to make great photographs with superficial or no understanding at all.

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