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01-16-2020, 02:10 AM   #1
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Godox system with Manual Focus Only Glass

Could do with some help here Godoxians!

Equipment;

K-1
Lensbaby lenses or
M42 Takumar glass (both of which work fine in Av mode)
XPro-P trigger or
X2T trigger
AD200pro

I am totally down and cool with how it all works with regular AF lenses. Perfect results, no problemo. I'm just wondering if I can somehow get some of my unique manual focus glass to be triggered (even somewhat nerfed) with other shall we say 'interesting' glass

I have shot my lensbaby lenses with ocf before, but it was with the cactus system, I recall the hurdles of 1/200 and no power adjustment possible from the trigger, has to be done on the flash unit itself.

Thus far the Xpro seems to only trigger the AD200 in TTL mode, Manual Mode does nothing. I have packed away for the night so I haven't tested further that that. I noticed my shots had severe banding in them as well.

So... can it be done? Do I need to mess around with the AD200, some mode, some more things to turn on and off?


Cheers!

BB

01-16-2020, 02:39 AM - 1 Like   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
So... can it be done? Do I need to mess around with the AD200, some mode, some more things to turn on and off?
Hello Bruce.

I think your case was discussed maybe a couple of months ago. When you have a Pentax compatible Godox trigger and no-A lens, you have no way to trigger your remote flash.
I can suggest some solutions (but forget on most cases about HSS, and of course PTTL):

1. Use a manual Godox trigger, like the XT32
2. Use a Canon (or other no-Pentax) trigger like XT32C, XProC etc. I have a bunch of Godox triggers, so it's easy in my case . This is similiar to 1.
3. Cut a piece of paper or plastic, so you can put it on the camera's shoe and try to isolate all but the central pin. A bit cumbersome, but will work, your trigger will fire.
4. Use a cold hotshoe and a sync cable. Put the cold hotshoe on your camera, Godox trigger on cold hotshoe, and sync cable from camera's sync port to Godox trigger sync port. Your trigger will be fired using you camera's sync port signal.
5. Use the old stacking method, stack your Godox trigger on top of your Cactus trigger. You Cactus trigger works with no-A lenses, just put you Godox trigger on the upper hot shoe. This solution depends on your Cactus firmware, but I think most of Cactus firmware pass the trigger signal to the upper hotshoe. In some cases, you can get HSS too.

On some Godox triggers, like the X1T (I think, not sure) you can set a mode to just use the central pin, so other pins are disabled. With this mode you can 'downgrade' your trigger to be a manual one. But the XT2 or XPro doesn't have such mode.

Regards.
01-16-2020, 12:13 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
So... can it be done?
I have a sideline interest in the Godox system (not a current owner) and wonder if taking sync from the PC port (suggested above) might be an option. The PC sync circuit on the camera is isolated from the hot shoe, so there is a chance that a cold shoe might not even be needed. (Godox manuals are not helpful in this regard.) Another option might be a simple hot-shoe pass-through adapter.


Steve

Last edited by stevebrot; 01-16-2020 at 12:44 PM.
01-16-2020, 12:45 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I have a sideline interest in the Godox system (not a current owner) and wonder if taking sync from the PC port (suggested above) might be an option. The PC sync circuit on the camera is isolated from the hot shoe, so there is a chance that a cold shoe might not even be needed. (Godox manuals are not helpful in this regard.)


Steve
Ah cool, what kind of cable would I need for that? I'm guessing quite a specific one, not something that comes with our cameras or anything (left behind in my box stored away? )

01-16-2020, 01:17 PM - 1 Like   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
Ah cool, what kind of cable would I need for that? I'm guessing quite a specific one, not something that comes with our cameras or anything (left behind in my box stored away? )
PC (Prontor-Compur) on one end and 3.5mm or 2.5mm (depending on which of your triggers you want to use)* on the other end. These are cheap and readily available. Note that the PC end often includes a screw-in option that works well with various devices having Nikon-type PC fitting. Sadly, the PC sync fitting on our Pentax cameras is a different thread. Such will fit, just not with the security of being able to screw on.


Steve

* I would go with the 3.5mm for use with your X2T-P. 3.5mm is more common for flash and strobes than 2.5mm.

Last edited by stevebrot; 01-16-2020 at 01:27 PM.
01-16-2020, 01:29 PM - 1 Like   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
I have a sideline interest in the Godox system (not a current owner) and wonder if taking sync from the PC port (suggested above) might be an option. The PC sync circuit on the camera is isolated from the hot shoe, so there is a chance that a cold shoe might not even be needed. (Godox manuals are not helpful in this regard.) Another option might be a simple hot-shoe pass-through adapter.
hot-shoe pass.through should work too. I have checked the five methods so I can confirm that all work.


When I attend an event, I usually have my PTTL flash on camera's hot shoe, so to use the main flash AND control other remote Godox flashes, I put my Godox trigger on a small bracket and use a cable to connect the trigger to my camera's sync port. I have two similar cables to connect my trigger to my camera: PC Sync to 2.5mm and PC Sync to 3.5mm. This is because I have different Godox triggers with different input ports.
But I can confirm that using the PC sync signal works perfectly. I have been using this aproach for years. Of course no HSS or PTTL using the sync port.

This year, I plan to buy the Godox V1, that is also a flash controller, so I'll not need the trigger, bracket and cable (I hope).

EDIT: this is a pic of how the thing looks like (two approaches).





Last edited by morenjavi; 01-16-2020 at 01:35 PM.
01-16-2020, 02:58 PM - 1 Like   #7
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Flashpoint (Adorama exclusive) has an R2 single pin transceiver that has a single pin hot shoe on top and provides 5 group remote manual power control. It doesn't really help you in Australia, but it should work.
01-16-2020, 03:04 PM - 1 Like   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
hot-shoe pass.through should work too. I have checked the five methods so I can confirm that all work.


When I attend an event, I usually have my PTTL flash on camera's hot shoe, so to use the main flash AND control other remote Godox flashes, I put my Godox trigger on a small bracket and use a cable to connect the trigger to my camera's sync port. I have two similar cables to connect my trigger to my camera: PC Sync to 2.5mm and PC Sync to 3.5mm. This is because I have different Godox triggers with different input ports.
But I can confirm that using the PC sync signal works perfectly. I have been using this aproach for years. Of course no HSS or PTTL using the sync port.

This year, I plan to buy the Godox V1, that is also a flash controller, so I'll not need the trigger, bracket and cable (I hope).

EDIT: this is a pic of how the thing looks like (two approaches).



ooh! I have a V1

So.. with the PC Sync cable, I notice all your images have the trigger not directly on the K-1 hotshoe. I was hoping to keep the Xpro-P in the K-1 hotshoe so that it works with normal lenses, then when I fancy getting weird, swap out the lens for some different manual focus glass, connect an additional (PC Sync) cable between the K-1 and Xpro-P and be good to go. But is the Xpro not going to like that? Is it going to want an adaptor inbetween etc?

If I can do any testing on your behalf with a V1 just gimme a shout.

01-16-2020, 03:25 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
So.. with the PC Sync cable, I notice all your images have the trigger not directly on the K-1 hotshoe. I was hoping to keep the Xpro-P in the K-1 hotshoe so that it works with normal lenses, then when I fancy getting weird, swap out the lens for some different manual focus glass, connect an additional (PC Sync) cable between the K-1 and Xpro-P and be good to go. But is the Xpro not going to like that? Is it going to want an adaptor inbetween etc?
Yes, the 'trick' to make the XproP work with M lenses is to 'isolate' the trigger, avoiding it to know that it's connected to a Pentax camera and start to talk about 'PTTL things'.
I tried a minute ago to put the trigger on the camera's shoe AND the sync cable connected, and it works... but just one time, the second and next times it seems something is blocked and doens't fire. So you have to switch the trigger OFF-ON again, and you can fire another time... and so. Maybe this approach is valid for you.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
If I can do any testing on your behalf with a V1 just gimme a shout.
Yes you can, thanks . I liked to know how easy is to manage this setup:
* V1 on camera's shoe in PTTL and Master mode

* V1 controlling one or more Godox flashes in Manual mode, enabling/disabling and changing power
Just liked to know your experience, if you find it easy to setup and handle or not. This will be my next setup, V1 on camera, PTTL, and controlling other Godox flashes in M mode.


Another test is to check if the V1 is able to handle legacy flashes like the V850 or AD360. I found problems enabling/disabling legacy flashes with the X2T trigger, and I don't know if I'll find the same problem with the V1. But I know you don't have such Godox flashes, so I suppose I'll have to check by myself.
01-17-2020, 02:27 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
Yes, the 'trick' to make the XproP work with M lenses is to 'isolate' the trigger, avoiding it to know that it's connected to a Pentax camera and start to talk about 'PTTL things'.
I tried a minute ago to put the trigger on the camera's shoe AND the sync cable connected, and it works... but just one time, the second and next times it seems something is blocked and doens't fire. So you have to switch the trigger OFF-ON again, and you can fire another time... and so. Maybe this approach is valid for you.
So.. that sounds a pretty pointless endeavour for the event shooter that might use a FA77 one minute, and then decide to use a M42 Takumar next minute, thinking the only addon necessary is a cable connection. If I need to isolate and dumb trigger the Xpro via the step up dumb trigger thingy... then why do I need the cable at all?


QuoteOriginally posted by morenjavi Quote
Yes you can, thanks . I liked to know how easy is to manage this setup:
* V1 on camera's shoe in PTTL and Master mode

* V1 controlling one or more Godox flashes in Manual mode, enabling/disabling and changing power
Just liked to know your experience, if you find it easy to setup and handle or not. This will be my next setup, V1 on camera, PTTL, and controlling other Godox flashes in M mode.


Another test is to check if the V1 is able to handle legacy flashes like the V850 or AD360. I found problems enabling/disabling legacy flashes with the X2T trigger, and I don't know if I'll find the same problem with the V1. But I know you don't have such Godox flashes, so I suppose I'll have to check by myself.
Yes all I have is AD200pro x2 and V1x2.

I'll test that and report back. Only thing I have done thus far is fire my V1's remotely via a Xpro-P in conjunction with AD200's for product photography type stuff. I've not even had it directly in the hotshoe of the K-1 yet lol (not sure I will tbh, I far prefer the idea of using the AD200 and EC200 for my K-1 hotshoe use, possibly even less strain!)
01-17-2020, 05:17 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
If I need to isolate and dumb trigger the Xpro via the step up dumb trigger thingy... then why do I need the cable at all?
Just to clarify the pictures I sent: what you see on my camera's shoe is a cold shoe isolated from the camera (no communication at all with the camera), so in both pictures only the sync cable is firing the trigger, regardless If I put the trigger on my bracket or on top of the cold shoe. You could fire a remote flash this way regardless the lens I put on my camera, BUT you lose HSS & PTTL.

If you put a pass-through adapter instead of the cold shoe, then you don't need a cable at all.

On the test I made, I put the XproP directly on the camera's shoe, so the trigger is 'talking PTTL'. Then I put a M lens on the camera and the sync cable from the camera to the trigger. In this case the trigger have two different connections to the camera, but it seems that the sync cable connection takes precedence over the shoe connection, so it could be a quick solution when you use a M lens. But unfortunately only works one time, and you need to reset the trigger continuously.

Maybe the idea of the pass-through thing is more adequate for you: when you need to put a M lens, you just have to put the pass-thing on your camera and stack the Godox trigger. If you don't plan to use HSS/PTTL, you can just use the Godox trigger isolated all time (I'm afraid it's not your case). Your cactus V6II could be used as a pass-through device.
01-17-2020, 05:44 AM - 3 Likes   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
If I need to isolate and dumb trigger the Xpro via the step up dumb trigger thingy... then why do I need the cable at all?
The cable connection would allow you to forgo any other connection between the camera and the XPro trigger. In this case you wouldn't need a cold-shoe, single pin cable, or intermediate V6(II) trigger. A long sync cable (e.g., using a PC cable extension) might allow you to pocket the trigger while it is connected to the camera via the PC socket.

You have Godox to thank that they did not implement the "single pin" option from the X1T in the XPro (or X2T, for that matter). With this option (that Cactus make available by other means), one can make even manual lenses work. Too bad that Godox thought it to be unnecessary to keep that feature.

BTW, I'm rather sure there is nothing in the camera's menu that would provide another workaround. The people on Facebook who suggested as much are mistaken, to the best of my knowledge.

I would consider getting the Flashpoint single pin transceiver which @Kb3hvp already mentioned. Then you could just swap triggers instead of fuzzing about with a sync cable.
01-17-2020, 12:17 PM - 1 Like   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
BTW, I'm rather sure there is nothing in the camera's menu that would provide another workaround. The people on Facebook who suggested as much are mistaken, to the best of my knowledge.
Yep...That is the best of my knowledge as well. I have been around this bush a few times* and if a device identifies as using P-TTL, the only camera option for a clear X-sync is through the PC fitting.


Steve


*Different devices...similar problem.
01-17-2020, 12:56 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
The cable connection would allow you to forgo any other connection between the camera and the XPro trigger. In this case you wouldn't need a cold-shoe, single pin cable, or intermediate V6(II) trigger. A long sync cable (e.g., using a PC cable extension) might allow you to pocket the trigger while it is connected to the camera via the PC socket.

You have Godox to thank that they did not implement the "single pin" option from the X1T in the XPro (or X2T, for that matter). With this option (that Cactus make available by other means), one can make even manual lenses work. Too bad that Godox thought it to be unnecessary to keep that feature.

BTW, I'm rather sure there is nothing in the camera's menu that would provide another workaround. The people on Facebook who suggested as much are mistaken, to the best of my knowledge.

I would consider getting the Flashpoint single pin transceiver which @Kb3hvp already mentioned. Then you could just swap triggers instead of fuzzing about with a sync cable.
So wait up... that Flashpoint R2 thingy majig from Adorama, it would be better than using a cold shoe thingy adapter with an Xpro-P because you will still be able to control the power of the flashes and be in manual mode (rather than TTL)? I realise Flashpoint is just the branding name for Adorama, I take it that just because I have some AD200Pro's and V1 Flashpoints that they should still all be hunky dory with the R2? And the R2 has no brand specific version, like that will work fine for Pentax and other brands because its just a dumb trigger essentially?

It does sound like the better course of action to take...
01-19-2020, 01:13 AM - 1 Like   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
So wait up... that Flashpoint R2 thingy majig from Adorama, it would be better than using a cold shoe thingy adapter with an Xpro-P because you will still be able to control the power of the flashes and be in manual mode (rather than TTL)?
You'd be able to manually control power with the Flashpoint R2 Single Pin Transceiver, but I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be able to do it with an XPro as well when using the sync-cable workaround.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
I realise Flashpoint is just the branding name for Adorama, I take it that just because I have some AD200Pro's and V1 Flashpoints that they should still all be hunky dory with the R2?
"Flashpoint" is the name Adorama use to rebrand Godox products, but on top of those (technically identical) rebranded products, there are Flashpoint-exclusive products such as the Flashpoint R2 Single Pin Transceiver or the Flashpoint R2 Pro MarkII that are not available as Godox versions.

Compatibility is ensured regardless, though.

QuoteOriginally posted by BruceBanner Quote
And the R2 has no brand specific version, like that will work fine for Pentax and other brands because its just a dumb trigger essentially?
Yes, exactly.
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