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05-25-2021, 10:27 PM   #16
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QuoteOriginally posted by BarryE Quote
... and think how far from said window. ie a small s/box very close to a subject gives equal softness of light as a large s/box some way from the subject. (The sun is a point source, even though it's a little on the large size.)

Also remember the inverse square law and how light intensity falls off. Then add in the way each modifier, eg umbrella versus softbox versus beauty dish etc., actually distributes the light and there's not much else you really need to know.
Thanks, I think I will go with a small one and play within limitation.
It might be more fun that way and I don't have the controlled environment as in a studio anyway.

---------- Post added 26-05-21 at 01:32 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
Just so you know colour gels work badly outside because as you increase the flash power they desaturate.

In a studio, you can keep all the light levels low and use a dark grey background rather than white for best effect. Here's one of mine:

I have seen some good works with contrast to yellow street lights etc.
Of course I didn't expect it to be controlled like an ideal situation in studio, but it would be fun to engage in spontaneous creativity.

05-25-2021, 10:39 PM - 1 Like   #17
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angelic Layer Quote
I have seen some good works with contrast to yellow street lights etc.
Shooting at night only? The ambient light levels to overcome are so low I'm sure that will work okay.
05-25-2021, 11:34 PM   #18
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Guys, I've found this kit at a listing near where I am.
How do you think about it?
The same company also makes a larger flash then speed lights but smaller than studio flash that looks neat.
Falcon Eyes SG-100BK review - a big flash at a little price - Lighting Rumours
05-27-2021, 12:42 PM - 2 Likes   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angelic Layer Quote
I'm not sure how to phrase my question.
I am looking for ideas in building a lighting setup that is as light and minimal as possible for outdoor and location portrait photography.
You've pretty much described a Strobist setup with a speedlight. Small, light, battery-powered. But. Using a small light stand outdoors and on location, particularly with an umbrella can be tough, especially if there's any wind. Consider how you're going to stabilize the stand (sandbags, groundscrews+bungees, etc), or whether possibly going strobe on a stick or looking like an idiot with a reflector and bouncing might be worth it.

QuoteQuote:
I am looking at a few remote flashes setup, I wondered what I should be looking at and get away with this kind of setup.
Flash, light reflector etc.
Just me, but rope in a VALS (assistant) to hold your lightstand or reflector and everything gets a ton easier.

Flash gear, consider Godox. Godox is a favorite among hobbyists and pros because there's an entire lighting system that extends well past speedlights and where the TTL/HSS support is cross-brand, making it much easier to shoot multiple systems, switch systems, or share lights with a different system shooter.

I'd recommend a TT685-C (Canon version) or V860 II (any version) that's been firmware updated to do P-TTL as a radio slave, if you're never going to go on-camera or already have a P-TTL capable speedlight. Or the V1-P or TT350-P if you need a speedlight that does double-duty on- and off-camera (or possibly waiting to see if a V860 III-P arrives on the scene sometime later this year). If you don't need TTL, there's also the $60 TT600 single-pin manual speedlight.

Godox speedlights all come with built-in radio transceivers, so you don't have to also purchase and attach a radio receiver to the foot to use one off-camera over radio (more important with location shooting, where optical signaling can be overpowered by bright sunlight and line-of-sight requirements can reduce reliability/range if there are no bounce surfaces nearby), The Godox XPro-P, X2T-P, or Flashpoint R2 Pro II-P are all transmitter units you can use to remotely control and fire the Godox speedlight off-camera.

If you're past the point of speedlights and want something more powerful with bare bulb spread (i.e., like a monolight only smaller) the AD200 and AD200 Pro ministrobes are pretty much the tool of choice and probably the most versatile because of its interchangeable head. There are also the AD100 (but generally, a V1 speedlight or AD200 might be a better deal), and an AD300 Pro (a sort of poor man's Profoto B10).

05-27-2021, 05:33 PM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
You've pretty much described a Strobist setup with a speedlight. Small, light, battery-powered. But. Using a small light stand outdoors and on location, particularly with an umbrella can be tough, especially if there's any wind. Consider how you're going to stabilize the stand (sandbags, groundscrews+bungees, etc), or whether possibly going strobe on a stick or looking like an idiot with a reflector and bouncing might be worth it.



Just me, but rope in a VALS (assistant) to hold your lightstand or reflector and everything gets a ton easier.

Flash gear, consider Godox. Godox is a favorite among hobbyists and pros because there's an entire lighting system that extends well past speedlights and where the TTL/HSS support is cross-brand, making it much easier to shoot multiple systems, switch systems, or share lights with a different system shooter.

I'd recommend a TT685-C (Canon version) or V860 II (any version) that's been firmware updated to do P-TTL as a radio slave, if you're never going to go on-camera or already have a P-TTL capable speedlight. Or the V1-P or TT350-P if you need a speedlight that does double-duty on- and off-camera (or possibly waiting to see if a V860 III-P arrives on the scene sometime later this year). If you don't need TTL, there's also the $60 TT600 single-pin manual speedlight.

Godox speedlights all come with built-in radio transceivers, so you don't have to also purchase and attach a radio receiver to the foot to use one off-camera over radio (more important with location shooting, where optical signaling can be overpowered by bright sunlight and line-of-sight requirements can reduce reliability/range if there are no bounce surfaces nearby), The Godox XPro-P, X2T-P, or Flashpoint R2 Pro II-P are all transmitter units you can use to remotely control and fire the Godox speedlight off-camera.

If you're past the point of speedlights and want something more powerful with bare bulb spread (i.e., like a monolight only smaller) the AD200 and AD200 Pro ministrobes are pretty much the tool of choice and probably the most versatile because of its interchangeable head. There are also the AD100 (but generally, a V1 speedlight or AD200 might be a better deal), and an AD300 Pro (a sort of poor man's Profoto B10).
Thank you for your valuable insights and experience, now I get an idea of how to build such a setup in more specific and detail way.
05-28-2021, 06:32 PM   #21
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QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
You've pretty much described a Strobist setup with a speedlight. Small, light, battery-powered. But. Using a small light stand outdoors and on location, particularly with an umbrella can be tough, especially if there's any wind. Consider how you're going to stabilize the stand (sandbags, groundscrews+bungees, etc), or whether possibly going strobe on a stick or looking like an idiot with a reflector and bouncing might be worth it.



Just me, but rope in a VALS (assistant) to hold your lightstand or reflector and everything gets a ton easier.

Flash gear, consider Godox. Godox is a favorite among hobbyists and pros because there's an entire lighting system that extends well past speedlights and where the TTL/HSS support is cross-brand, making it much easier to shoot multiple systems, switch systems, or share lights with a different system shooter.

I'd recommend a TT685-C (Canon version) or V860 II (any version) that's been firmware updated to do P-TTL as a radio slave, if you're never going to go on-camera or already have a P-TTL capable speedlight. Or the V1-P or TT350-P if you need a speedlight that does double-duty on- and off-camera (or possibly waiting to see if a V860 III-P arrives on the scene sometime later this year). If you don't need TTL, there's also the $60 TT600 single-pin manual speedlight.

Godox speedlights all come with built-in radio transceivers, so you don't have to also purchase and attach a radio receiver to the foot to use one off-camera over radio (more important with location shooting, where optical signaling can be overpowered by bright sunlight and line-of-sight requirements can reduce reliability/range if there are no bounce surfaces nearby), The Godox XPro-P, X2T-P, or Flashpoint R2 Pro II-P are all transmitter units you can use to remotely control and fire the Godox speedlight off-camera.

If you're past the point of speedlights and want something more powerful with bare bulb spread (i.e., like a monolight only smaller) the AD200 and AD200 Pro ministrobes are pretty much the tool of choice and probably the most versatile because of its interchangeable head. There are also the AD100 (but generally, a V1 speedlight or AD200 might be a better deal), and an AD300 Pro (a sort of poor man's Profoto B10).
Hello, I have look in Godox remote trigger and lights with more detail, it seemed that I have to use XPro-P for me to able to use TTL on Pentax, the problem is I learn that XPro doesn't work with single pin mode and I couldn't use it with other cameras on manual mode
The Godox X1 does not seemed to have a version for Pentax, although it support manual mode, so if I pick X2T Pentax, would I be able to do manual remote on other cameras?
Also as long as I use Godox trigger, I can trigger any version of V860?

I wondered if other system like Yongnuo's can work for different cameras other than Nikon/Canon/Sony only.
05-29-2021, 09:46 AM - 3 Likes   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angelic Layer Quote
I wondered if other system like Yongnuo's can work for different cameras other than Nikon/Canon/Sony only.
In terms of what you referred to as "single pin"-triggering, all triggers should be the same.

I'm pretty sure that the Godox-dedicated triggers will work on other camera systems as well, as long as you don't attempt to use TTL/HSS modes.

The lack of a "single pin mode" refers to the fact that one cannot force a dumbed down usage of a trigger on a camera that supports the protocol the trigger supports. It can occasionally be useful to use a trigger in "dumbed down" mode, e.g., when trying to avoid some automation that would otherwise occur (e.g., regarding white balance). BTW, you can enforce a dumbed down usage, even without a "single pin mode", by isolating the extra pins in the hot-shoe against the trigger; a respective piece of paper (leaving a hole for the centre pin) does the job.

As a trigger consider the Flashpoint R2 Pro MarkII. It is 100% Godox-compatible and represents the best of both XPro-P and X2T-P, plus more.

Regarding your outdoors kit, I'd recommend the AD200 (Pro). While speedlights are workable, you'll want at least one with an Li-ion battery (better handling and longer battery life than AA-rechargeables) and more oomph than a standard 75W speedlight. I used to use two speedlights within one modifier and that was workable but two speedlights and a bracket are more involved than a single AD200 (Pro), plus the bare bulb option of the AD 200 (Pro) is very nice to have for use within a softbox.

BTW, outdoors the lack of spill control of umbrellas is much less of a concern than indoors. In other words, you don't really urgently need a softbox outdoors. Umbrellas tend to be much cheaper and should work fine in most outdoor scenarios.

P.S.: If you are looking for a single trigger that works equally well on a range of camera brands, you might want to get your hands on a Cactus V6II. The Cactus V6II has a multi-brand hot-shoe connector and supports TTL (and non-TTL) usage on many camera systems. The Cactus brand no longer exists, but their products should continue to work for a long time to come. This system is best used with speedlights, though. The Cactus RF60x was a very capable little speedlight, but used AA batteries/rechargeables and had the some power output limitations as most speedlights.


Last edited by Class A; 05-29-2021 at 09:53 AM.
05-29-2021, 03:14 PM - 1 Like   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by stevebrot Quote
However, with softboxes, one size does not do all and compactness may be a concern.
I have a pair of flash softboxes that mount fine with velcro to any of my three off-camera flashes - all heavily modified Vivitar 283s with manual control rotary switches, fitted with velcro bands around their snouts. I also have a pair of honeycombs that mount in the softboxes. If I am carrying my full flash kit I also have a pair of umbrellas and their mounts. I normally use a pair of inexpensive tripods for key and fill, and one of my old K-mart tripods if I need backlight. The third flash is most often used by itself with a homebrew boom on my stoutest old tripod, and with a set of graduated ND filters, for gravestone photography.

Edit - I forgot to mention what I use for tripod weighting - I have some 5 pound canopy anchor weights purchased to anchor my canopies. One or two of those anchored to the bottom of the flash tripod center column with the correct bungee cord works nicely.

Last edited by Dale H. Cook; 05-29-2021 at 03:24 PM.
05-29-2021, 09:19 PM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dale H. Cook Quote
I have a pair of flash softboxes that mount fine with velcro to any of my three off-camera flashes - all heavily modified Vivitar 283s with manual control rotary switches, fitted with velcro bands around their snouts.
Yes...one can get on-snout softboxes that fit up to about 30cm on a side. Assuming one can get full diffusion across the surface, that is a significant improvement over the lens size of the average speedlight.

Added: One thing I like about my Viv 283 is that the lens adapter has twice the surface area of the flash.


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05-30-2021, 04:28 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Class A Quote
In terms of what you referred to as "single pin"-triggering, all triggers should be the same.

I'm pretty sure that the Godox-dedicated triggers will work on other camera systems as well, as long as you don't attempt to use TTL/HSS modes.

The lack of a "single pin mode" refers to the fact that one cannot force a dumbed down usage of a trigger on a camera that supports the protocol the trigger supports. It can occasionally be useful to use a trigger in "dumbed down" mode, e.g., when trying to avoid some automation that would otherwise occur (e.g., regarding white balance). BTW, you can enforce a dumbed down usage, even without a "single pin mode", by isolating the extra pins in the hot-shoe against the trigger; a respective piece of paper (leaving a hole for the centre pin) does the job.

As a trigger consider the Flashpoint R2 Pro MarkII. It is 100% Godox-compatible and represents the best of both XPro-P and X2T-P, plus more.

Regarding your outdoors kit, I'd recommend the AD200 (Pro). While speedlights are workable, you'll want at least one with an Li-ion battery (better handling and longer battery life than AA-rechargeables) and more oomph than a standard 75W speedlight. I used to use two speedlights within one modifier and that was workable but two speedlights and a bracket are more involved than a single AD200 (Pro), plus the bare bulb option of the AD 200 (Pro) is very nice to have for use within a softbox.

BTW, outdoors the lack of spill control of umbrellas is much less of a concern than indoors. In other words, you don't really urgently need a softbox outdoors. Umbrellas tend to be much cheaper and should work fine in most outdoor scenarios.

P.S.: If you are looking for a single trigger that works equally well on a range of camera brands, you might want to get your hands on a Cactus V6II. The Cactus V6II has a multi-brand hot-shoe connector and supports TTL (and non-TTL) usage on many camera systems. The Cactus brand no longer exists, but their products should continue to work for a long time to come. This system is best used with speedlights, though. The Cactus RF60x was a very capable little speedlight, but used AA batteries/rechargeables and had the some power output limitations as most speedlights.
Thanks, I'll look at Flashpro R2 Pro Mk II and I see there is a version available for Pentax as well as AD200.
I understand why so many photographers moving to Sony FF now since there's so much support available.
06-01-2021, 09:23 AM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
This is just an umbrella.

In a two flash setup, you would use it as fill for the softbox, since it's very wide with light, you can't concentrate it.

[/IMG]
Nice shot and your advice is based on your world experience.
06-02-2021, 03:05 PM - 1 Like   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angelic Layer Quote
Hello, I have look in Godox remote trigger and lights with more detail, it seemed that I have to use XPro-P for me to able to use TTL on Pentax, the problem is I learn that XPro doesn't work with single pin mode and I couldn't use it with other cameras on manual mode...
Actually, you can, but you may have to tape off the non-sync contacts on the camera hotshoe, or cable the transmitter to a sync port on the camera. Weirdly, the only Godox transmitter that does have single-pin mode is the X1T.

But, if your other camera is Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, or Panasonic, you could also just the appropriate XPro transmitter for that system and have TTL and HSS. I own three XPros: Canon, Fuji, and MFT versions for the three different brands of camera I shoot.

QuoteQuote:
... The Godox X1 does not seemed to have a version for Pentax, although it support manual mode, so if I pick X2T Pentax, would I be able to do manual remote on other cameras?
The X2T doesn't have single-pin mode either.

OTOH, taping off contacts isn't that hard. I did it on my Fuji X100T so I could use my XPro-C on the hotshoe. It was just a piece of scotch tape. With Pentax, you might have to punch a hole in the tape because you've got TTL contacts both above and below the sync contact (the big one in the center of the hotshoe), but for me, it was really simple because Fuji/Canon/MFT all arrange their additional contacts below the sync contact.

QuoteQuote:
Also as long as I use Godox trigger, I can trigger any version of V860?
You can trigger any version of the V860 II without any additional equipment, and have TTL so long as it's been firmware updated. The V860 (Mark I), however, did not have a built-in radio transceiver, so would also require the XTR16s receiver to be plugged into its proprietary Godox trigger port. And this receiver does not communicate TTL. I'm not sure about HSS for Pentax, but for other brands, so long as HSS is activated directly on the V860 it will work with the XTR16s.

QuoteQuote:
I wondered if other system like Yongnuo's can work for different cameras other than Nikon/Canon/Sony only.
Yes. I've used Yongnuo RF-603 IIs (manual triggers) on micro four-thirds gear. But you cannot get TTL/HSS out of Yongnuo gear; they only support TTL/HSS for Canon and Nikon. They do not for Sony, although they'd announced they were going to. And the YN-585EX, which is P-TTL compatible never had any matching radio triggering gear, and couldn't do HSS, iirc.

Jinbei RT (aka Westcott FJ and Adorama's Orlit) gear can also work with cross-brand TTL with a number of different brands, and uses a single transmitter version, but AFAIK, they don't yet support Pentax P-TTL.
06-03-2021, 07:27 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by inkista Quote
Actually, you can, but you may have to tape off the non-sync contacts on the camera hotshoe, or cable the transmitter to a sync port on the camera. Weirdly, the only Godox transmitter that does have single-pin mode is the X1T.

But, if your other camera is Canon, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, or Panasonic, you could also just the appropriate XPro transmitter for that system and have TTL and HSS. I own three XPros: Canon, Fuji, and MFT versions for the three different brands of camera I shoot.



The X2T doesn't have single-pin mode either.

OTOH, taping off contacts isn't that hard. I did it on my Fuji X100T so I could use my XPro-C on the hotshoe. It was just a piece of scotch tape. With Pentax, you might have to punch a hole in the tape because you've got TTL contacts both above and below the sync contact (the big one in the center of the hotshoe), but for me, it was really simple because Fuji/Canon/MFT all arrange their additional contacts below the sync contact.



You can trigger any version of the V860 II without any additional equipment, and have TTL so long as it's been firmware updated. The V860 (Mark I), however, did not have a built-in radio transceiver, so would also require the XTR16s receiver to be plugged into its proprietary Godox trigger port. And this receiver does not communicate TTL. I'm not sure about HSS for Pentax, but for other brands, so long as HSS is activated directly on the V860 it will work with the XTR16s.



Yes. I've used Yongnuo RF-603 IIs (manual triggers) on micro four-thirds gear. But you cannot get TTL/HSS out of Yongnuo gear; they only support TTL/HSS for Canon and Nikon. They do not for Sony, although they'd announced they were going to. And the YN-585EX, which is P-TTL compatible never had any matching radio triggering gear, and couldn't do HSS, iirc.

Jinbei RT (aka Westcott FJ and Adorama's Orlit) gear can also work with cross-brand TTL with a number of different brands, and uses a single transmitter version, but AFAIK, they don't yet support Pentax P-TTL.
Jinbei looks interesting with Bluetooth and smartphone control. aside from the functionality, are the quality of the flash units comparable to Godox?
06-03-2021, 10:15 PM - 1 Like   #29
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angelic Layer Quote
Jinbei looks interesting with Bluetooth and smartphone control. aside from the functionality, are the quality of the flash units comparable to Godox?
Just FYI, Godox's system also has bluetooth and smartphone app control with the X2T and Flashpoint R2 Pro II transmitters.

I have no experience with Jinbei gear, but since Westcott's picked them up, I'd say they probably are at least comparable to Godox in build quality. It's harder to find user reports on the system and the gear in it, because Godox has been so much more popular. While Jinbei's system is pretty comparable to Godox's, the one place where Godox wipes the floor with them is in speedlight selection. Jinbei pretty much only has the HD-2 Pro (Westcott FJ80).

Where Jinbei beats out Godox is in Canon RT integration. If you're a Canon shooter with a bunch of Canon RT gear, then Jinbei is the path for getting bigger lights together with your 600EX II-RT or 430EX III-RT.

But. As I said, Jinbei's system does not at this time support Pentax P-TTL.
06-04-2021, 10:37 PM - 1 Like   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Angelic Layer Quote
Jinbei looks interesting with Bluetooth and smartphone control. aside from the functionality, are the quality of the flash units comparable to Godox?
I have two Jinbei strobes which have never given me any trouble. In terms of build quality I'd rate them higher than the equivalent Godox strobes.

Jinbei equipment has been measured to achieve colour and power consistency that is better than that of Profoto gear.

The controller for my studio strobes is an ergonomic disaster (I'm not joking) but later controllers seem much better and you'd expect the Westcott branded versions to be fine in that regard. I haven't looked too closely though since, as Inkista said, neither Jinbei nor Westcott support Pentax. You can use the gear for regular studio photography, but you'd forgo TTL and most importantly HSS, which is important for outdoor photography.

It is a shame because their multi-brand hot shoe connector might already support Pentax hardwarewise but it has been almost two years since the Westcott launch with no signs of Pentax support coming.
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