Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison

Portland Pete · 01-02-2010, 11:10 AM

Government Computer. God knows why some sites are blocked. Sometimes bandwidth, sometimes file sharing capability, sometimes....who knows. Thanks for your help.

ishchupak · 01-07-2010, 07:36 AM

Hello, I am new to the forum, recently got k-x, and was looking for inexpencive p-ttl flash noticed ProMaster 5750DX same as Quantaray QTB-9550D; does anyone know if it will work with K-x, and also the base is there Comp model from Quantaray for ProMaster 5050DXR?

mattdm · 01-09-2010, 06:45 AM

ishchupak: check out this older thread about Quantaray-rebranded Promaster flashes on Pentax. From that, my understanding is that the flash will work with P-TTL with the Promaster 5050DXF module.

I haven't actually heard verification that the module works with the K-x; at least one other Promaster flash has trouble with the K-7.

atown · 01-10-2010, 11:57 PM

Originally posted by mattdm

As I'm sure has been apparent from all my recent messages, I'm working on a very thorough comparison of all of the available P-TTL hotshoe-mount flashes for Pentax dSLRs.

So, while I think I'll still maintain the Knol site in some fashion (not sure exactly how -- maybe as a truncated version), I've moved instead to my own site:

Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison: The Definitive Guide.

<Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison: The Definitive Guide>

Let me know what you think, and if you happen to notice any errors or anything lost in translation between the Google-based site and this one please alert me. (And to any other errors as well, of course.)
!

Matt - thanks for your effort, very useful blog ! Do you plan to include the Rokinon or Bower models of the Tumax units ?

Alan

Russell-Evans · 01-23-2010, 10:52 PM

... You might want to check out Steve Jacob's flash usage guide. It helps explain the ways P-TTL works in the different modes of the camera. Flash Modes for Pentax Photo Gallery by Steve Jacob

Thank you
Russell

ma318 · 01-23-2010, 11:37 PM

Originally posted by Russell-Evans

... You might want to check out Steve Jacob's flash usage guide. It helps explain the ways P-TTL works in the different modes of the camera. Flash Modes for Pentax Photo Gallery by Steve Jacob

Thank you
Russell

Russell, thanks for the link. Lots of useful information there. I did notice in this slide, Steve Jacob got the Guide Number of the AF540 mixed up. He indicated that it is 54 feet @ISO100. It should be 54 meter @ISO100 (or 178 feet @ISO100)

Slide7.JPG photo - Steve Jacob photos at pbase.com

AF540FGZ - Official PENTAX Imaging Web Site

dnmtsn` · 01-26-2010, 03:39 PM

I am afraid that there's something missing from your site, or I am not able to find it: it seems that the Metz 48 AF-1 Digital cannot be used in manual mode when it is off camera (wireless). It can only be used in P-TTL mode. Not even the Metz manual mentions this, but I just bought this unit and after spending the whole afternoon trying to get it to work in manual wireless, I found this thread here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/camera-studio-accessories/49189-af360fgz-...entax-won.html
where user jerrrymouse says that and I think he is right.

What do you think? Is there a way to use manual mode in wireless?
Thanks,
Dan

mattdm · 01-26-2010, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by dnmtsn`

I am afraid that there's something missing from your site, or I am not able to find it: it seems that the Metz 48 AF-1 Digital cannot be used in manual mode when it is off camera (wireless). It can only be used in P-TTL mode. Not even the Metz manual mentions this, but I just bought this unit and after spending the whole afternoon trying to get it to work in manual wireless, I found this thread here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/camera-studio-accessories/49189-af360fgz-...entax-won.html
where user jerrrymouse says that and I think he is right.

What do you think? Is there a way to use manual mode in wireless?

I'm not aware of one. On my "todo" list is an item "add section for non-pttl wireless modes". The Sigma "Super" model, the Promaster 7500EDF, and the Tumax generic can all do a "dumb slave" mode, but only when controlled by a non-pttl flash -- the preflash sets them off. (Same as Pentax's helpfully named "Slave 2" mode.)

My understanding (see this thread) is that the Pentax flashes, when set to Slave 1, can work in manual mode with digital pre-flash flashes; however, the flash manuals don't actually explain that. It's so confusing that no matter how many times someone explains it to me I'm just going to need to get some time (and a borrowed Pentax flash) to experiment.

(Edit: not that I don't trust Russell-Evans, by the way. I just have gotta play with it because the Pentax documentation is so poor.)

dnmtsn` · 01-27-2010, 02:35 AM

Matt, thanks a lot for the answer. This is quite depressing because as I understand from other threads, using the EV compensation to control flash output in wireless actually doesn't work.

Russell-Evans · 01-27-2010, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by dnmtsn`

Matt, thanks a lot for the answer. As I understand you own the Metz 48; could you share some thoughts on what would be the difference between a "true" manual mode in wireless and EV compensation

There really isn't a comparison. If you want complete control, the only way to get it is in manual.

For me, all optical wireless is going to have limitations on distance in some conditions, so I'm going to have a set of radio triggers anyway, whether the flash is a Pentax or not. If I have the triggers, and the flash let's me turn off the auto power off feature like the Metz 48 AF-1 does, I don't have any issue with using the Metz AF-1 with the radio trigger to get manual control and wireless.

The Pentax 360FGZ doesn't let you turn off its auto power feature, so the choice with it and the Metz 48 AF-1 is between being able to use the flash in manual with optical wireless versus being able to use the flash in manual with radio triggers. I personally will go for the more flexible system of the Metz 48 AF-1 and radio triggers over the 360.

Thank you
Russell

mattdm · 01-27-2010, 04:47 AM

Originally posted by dnmtsn`

Matt, thanks a lot for the answer. This is quite depressing because as I understand from other threads, using the EV compensation to control flash output in wireless actually doesn't work.

In what sense do you mean it doesn't work? You can certainly use flash EV compensation in wireless mode.

adwb · 02-03-2010, 06:43 AM

Originally posted by mattdm

It'll work, but no TTL or PTTL.

Matt,
Can I pick your knowledge base please?, I am trying to understand if the Metz 48 will work as a remote with out the K10d built in flash going off?
and
again off camera can the Metz 48 be set to not emit the preflash so it can trigger other light triggered flash units, ?
thanks Alistair

mattdm · 02-03-2010, 06:56 AM

Originally posted by adwb

Matt,
Can I pick your knowledge base please?, I am trying to understand if the Metz 48 will work as a remote with out the K10d built in flash going off?

No. The wireless optical protocol requires a control flash. However, it can be set so that the amount of light the control flash provides is so small that it doesn't affect the exposure.

Originally posted by adwb

and again off camera can the Metz 48 be set to not emit the preflash so it can trigger other light triggered flash units, ?
thanks Alistair

If you put it on all manual, no preflash. But if that's your primary use, probably better to buy a cheaper non-PTTL flash in the first place.

adwb · 02-03-2010, 07:04 AM

Originally posted by mattdm

No. The wireless optical protocol requires a control flash. However, it can be set so that the amount of light the control flash provides is so small that it doesn't affect the exposure.

thanks Matt, does the above apply to the pentax flash units as well?
Alistair

mattdm · 02-03-2010, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by adwb

thanks Matt, does the above apply to the pentax flash units as well?
Alistair

Yep; that's the design.

01-07-2010, 07:36 AM	#62
ishchupak Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Philly Posts: 34	k-x flash Hello, I am new to the forum, recently got k-x, and was looking for inexpencive p-ttl flash noticed ProMaster 5750DX same as Quantaray QTB-9550D; does anyone know if it will work with K-x, and also the base is there Comp model from Quantaray for ProMaster 5050DXR?

01-23-2010, 10:52 PM	#65
Russell-Evans Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,553	After you have picked out your flash ... ... You might want to check out Steve Jacob's flash usage guide. It helps explain the ways P-TTL works in the different modes of the camera. Flash Modes for Pentax Photo Gallery by Steve Jacob Thank you Russell

01-26-2010, 06:17 PM	#68
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948 Original Poster	Originally posted by dnmtsn` I am afraid that there's something missing from your site, or I am not able to find it: it seems that the Metz 48 AF-1 Digital cannot be used in manual mode when it is off camera (wireless). It can only be used in P-TTL mode. Not even the Metz manual mentions this, but I just bought this unit and after spending the whole afternoon trying to get it to work in manual wireless, I found this thread here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/camera-studio-accessories/49189-af360fgz-...entax-won.html where user jerrrymouse says that and I think he is right. What do you think? Is there a way to use manual mode in wireless? I'm not aware of one. On my "todo" list is an item "add section for non-pttl wireless modes". The Sigma "Super" model, the Promaster 7500EDF, and the Tumax generic can all do a "dumb slave" mode, but only when controlled by a non-pttl flash -- the preflash sets them off. (Same as Pentax's helpfully named "Slave 2" mode.) My understanding (see this thread) is that the Pentax flashes, when set to Slave 1, can work in manual mode with digital pre-flash flashes; however, the flash manuals don't actually explain that. It's so confusing that no matter how many times someone explains it to me I'm just going to need to get some time (and a borrowed Pentax flash) to experiment. (Edit: not that I don't trust Russell-Evans, by the way. I just have gotta play with it because the Pentax documentation is so poor.) Last edited by mattdm; 01-26-2010 at 06:26 PM. Reason: Clarification.

01-27-2010, 02:35 AM	#69
dnmtsn` Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Romania Posts: 36	Matt, thanks a lot for the answer. This is quite depressing because as I understand from other threads, using the EV compensation to control flash output in wireless actually doesn't work. Last edited by dnmtsn`; 01-27-2010 at 03:03 AM.

01-27-2010, 03:15 AM	#70
Russell-Evans Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,553	Originally posted by dnmtsn` Matt, thanks a lot for the answer. As I understand you own the Metz 48; could you share some thoughts on what would be the difference between a "true" manual mode in wireless and EV compensation There really isn't a comparison. If you want complete control, the only way to get it is in manual. For me, all optical wireless is going to have limitations on distance in some conditions, so I'm going to have a set of radio triggers anyway, whether the flash is a Pentax or not. If I have the triggers, and the flash let's me turn off the auto power off feature like the Metz 48 AF-1 does, I don't have any issue with using the Metz AF-1 with the radio trigger to get manual control and wireless. The Pentax 360FGZ doesn't let you turn off its auto power feature, so the choice with it and the Metz 48 AF-1 is between being able to use the flash in manual with optical wireless versus being able to use the flash in manual with radio triggers. I personally will go for the more flexible system of the Metz 48 AF-1 and radio triggers over the 360. Thank you Russell Last edited by Russell-Evans; 01-27-2010 at 08:29 PM.

01-02-2010, 11:10 AM	#61
Portland Pete Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Oregon Photos: Albums Posts: 144	Government Computer. God knows why some sites are blocked. Sometimes bandwidth, sometimes file sharing capability, sometimes....who knows. Thanks for your help.

01-09-2010, 06:45 AM	#63
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948 Original Poster	ishchupak: check out this older thread about Quantaray-rebranded Promaster flashes on Pentax. From that, my understanding is that the flash will work with P-TTL with the Promaster 5050DXF module. I haven't actually heard verification that the module works with the K-x; at least one other Promaster flash has trouble with the K-7.

01-10-2010, 11:57 PM	#64
atown Forum Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: United States Photos: Gallery Posts: 50	Originally posted by mattdm As I'm sure has been apparent from all my recent messages, I'm working on a very thorough comparison of all of the available P-TTL hotshoe-mount flashes for Pentax dSLRs. So, while I think I'll still maintain the Knol site in some fashion (not sure exactly how -- maybe as a truncated version), I've moved instead to my own site: Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison: The Definitive Guide. <Pentax P-TTL Flash Comparison: The Definitive Guide> Let me know what you think, and if you happen to notice any errors or anything lost in translation between the Google-based site and this one please alert me. (And to any other errors as well, of course.) ! Matt - thanks for your effort, very useful blog ! Do you plan to include the Rokinon or Bower models of the Tumax units ? Alan

01-23-2010, 11:37 PM	#66
ma318 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: BC, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 174	Originally posted by Russell-Evans ... You might want to check out Steve Jacob's flash usage guide. It helps explain the ways P-TTL works in the different modes of the camera. Flash Modes for Pentax Photo Gallery by Steve Jacob Thank you Russell Russell, thanks for the link. Lots of useful information there. I did notice in this slide, Steve Jacob got the Guide Number of the AF540 mixed up. He indicated that it is 54 feet @ISO100. It should be 54 meter @ISO100 (or 178 feet @ISO100) Slide7.JPG photo - Steve Jacob photos at pbase.com AF540FGZ - Official PENTAX Imaging Web Site

01-26-2010, 03:39 PM	#67
dnmtsn` Inactive Account Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Romania Posts: 36	I am afraid that there's something missing from your site, or I am not able to find it: it seems that the Metz 48 AF-1 Digital cannot be used in manual mode when it is off camera (wireless). It can only be used in P-TTL mode. Not even the Metz manual mentions this, but I just bought this unit and after spending the whole afternoon trying to get it to work in manual wireless, I found this thread here: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/camera-studio-accessories/49189-af360fgz-...entax-won.html where user jerrrymouse says that and I think he is right. What do you think? Is there a way to use manual mode in wireless? Thanks, Dan

01-27-2010, 04:47 AM	#71
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948 Original Poster	Originally posted by dnmtsn` Matt, thanks a lot for the answer. This is quite depressing because as I understand from other threads, using the EV compensation to control flash output in wireless actually doesn't work. In what sense do you mean it doesn't work? You can certainly use flash EV compensation in wireless mode.

02-03-2010, 06:43 AM	#72
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636	Originally posted by mattdm It'll work, but no TTL or PTTL. Matt, Can I pick your knowledge base please?, I am trying to understand if the Metz 48 will work as a remote with out the K10d built in flash going off? and again off camera can the Metz 48 be set to not emit the preflash so it can trigger other light triggered flash units, ? thanks Alistair

02-03-2010, 06:56 AM	#73
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948 Original Poster	Originally posted by adwb Matt, Can I pick your knowledge base please?, I am trying to understand if the Metz 48 will work as a remote with out the K10d built in flash going off? No. The wireless optical protocol requires a control flash. However, it can be set so that the amount of light the control flash provides is so small that it doesn't affect the exposure. Originally posted by adwb and again off camera can the Metz 48 be set to not emit the preflash so it can trigger other light triggered flash units, ? thanks Alistair If you put it on all manual, no preflash. But if that's your primary use, probably better to buy a cheaper non-PTTL flash in the first place.

02-03-2010, 07:04 AM	#74
adwb Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Bristol UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,636	Originally posted by mattdm No. The wireless optical protocol requires a control flash. However, it can be set so that the amount of light the control flash provides is so small that it doesn't affect the exposure. thanks Matt, does the above apply to the pentax flash units as well? Alistair

02-03-2010, 07:11 AM	#75
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948 Original Poster	Originally posted by adwb thanks Matt, does the above apply to the pentax flash units as well? Alistair Yep; that's the design.

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