[pentaxian_tmb]

Now i am just really confused and have decision paralysis. The godox v1 seems very nice but its expensive and wonder if its overkil for a couple of eventd. The v860 looks intetesting as does the yunguo mentioned, but not clear if they can be triggered with my af360.

[wadge22]

@pentaxian_tmb
It seems, to me, a bit like this analogy:

You come in saying
"Help... I'm having trouble towing this boat with my Ford Ranger!"

Several buddies respond
"I tow my bass boat with my Chevy S10 all the time!"

What are you to make of that?

We haven't exactly figured out if you're also towing a bass boat, or if you're towing a 30ft cruiser and you need a full size dually with the tow package.
We haven't checked if your Ford has a blown head gasket.
We don't even know if you're just leaving the parking brake engaged (no offense).

It seems like we should figure out why you can't tow your load with your current truck, rather than send you off to the Chevy lot.


Back to cameras, I really think that a single moderately powered, high quality flash (which both the 360FGZ and the Godox V1 seem to be) should be able to light a group picture of 8-12 people inside from 10 feet away with a ~35mm (equiv) lens. We should figure out exactly what isn't working for you, before you spend a lot of money. More flashes or off camera flash or diffusers or advanced techniques will make the images look better, but none of that should be necessary to get a properly exposed shot in these circumstances.

[West Penn]

Now i am just really confused and have decision paralysis. The godox v1 seems very nice but its expensive and wonder if its overkil for a couple of eventd. The v860 looks intetesting as does the yunguo mentioned, but not clear if they can be triggered with my af360.

Just a suggestion -- mount your Pentax AF360 flash on your K-5, put the camera in manual mode, ISO = 400, shutter speed = 1/125 sec, and aperture = f6.3, and use it with your 35mm lens. Set the flash to PTTL mode. With normal room lighting, you should be able to get a reasonably good exposure every time and that includes the group shot you originally posted. Give it a try. See what you get. If it doesn't work. something is not working properly between the camera and flash.

[wadge22]

Just a suggestion -- mount your Pentax AF360 flash on your K-5, put the camera in manual mode, ISO = 400, shutter speed = 1/125 sec, and aperture = f6.3, and use it with your 35mm lens. Set the flash to PTTL mode. With normal room lighting, you should be able to get a reasonably good exposure every time and that includes the group shot you originally posted. Give it a try. See what you get. If it doesn't work. something is not working properly between the camera and flash.

Adding to that:

be sure that the flash mode is "flash on" (which is just the lightning bolt symbol with no extra symbols around it)

that the flash comp is set to zero (which is on the bottom of the same page as flash mode, accessed by pressing the down button)

and that the camera's ev comp is set to zero (+/- button on top of camera, then wheel to zero / the center of the +/- meter). (Shouldn't actually matter in M mode, now that I think it through)

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Last edited by wadge22; 06-06-2022 at 07:27 PM.

[pentaxian_tmb]

So it seems I am just a moron. Turns out the camera flash comp was set to -2 and EC to -1. Also didn't have the flash set up right...although after going through the manual 10x, I am still not sure I do. I can't seem to get the 'format' set to digital per the manual...it only lets me cycle through the manual formats and then defaults to 35mm. Its now set to autozoom, but the manual says autozoom is supposed to be at 16mm
for a digital camera, and mine screen reads 70mm or 48mm.... not sure how to fix that. Also have no clue when/if i should be using the compensation number using the s button vs on camera. Here is a shot of its current settings

https://drscdn.500px.org/photo/1049311903/m%3D256/v2?sig=5a22cf8c881d8993fda...c099b51032009e

https://drscdn.500px.org/photo/1049312049/m%3D900/v2?sig=f022741a9190afca9e7...fce3a27bfbf833

[wadge22]

Not a moron. You're doing trial and error, and asking for help. One, the other, or both is what it's gonna take. And when you get it figured out everyone will be impressed with the shots.

And hey, you probably just saved yourself $260.

[pentaxian_tmb]

Not a moron. You're doing trial and error, and asking for help. That's what it's gonna take, and when you get it figured out everyone will be impressed with the shots.

And hey, you probably just saved yourself $260.

I think a long night with the manual and $75 for 8 eneloops, a charger, and a diffuser softbox is a good plan.

[fuzzyphotos]

What about two of those little Flash Point zoom mini flashes from Adorama.Cheap enough on sale, have optical and wireless triggers, they come with a cheap stand for the remote flash. I'm no flash expert and haven't used them for any more than taking pictures of stuff and the dog. It took an afternoon to figure them out and get decent results. They are not going to light up a huge room but will give some directional light with a flash mounted on the camera bounced off the ceiling or a wall and another off the the side on a shelf or something. Just thinking a cheap and unobtrusive way to get some light. You might be able to get away with one set to optical slave triggered by your existing flash but not sure on that point.


Tim

[West Penn]

Code:

pentaxian_tmb
So it seems I am just a moron. Turns out the camera flash comp was set to -2 and EC to -1. Also didn't have the flash set up right...although after going through the manual 10x, I am still not sure I do. I can't seem to get the 'format' set to digital per the manual...it only lets me cycle through the manual formats and then defaults to 35mm. Its now set to autozoom, but the manual says autozoom is supposed to be at 16mm
for a digital camera, and mine screen reads 70mm or 48mm.... not sure how to fix that. Also have no clue when/if i should be using the compensation number using the s button vs on camera. Here is a shot of its current settings

Having the flash exposure compensation as well as the camera exposure compensation set to negative values was the crux of your problem with not getting enough light on the scene.

As far as the flash zoom function is concerned, set it to Auto Zoom and forget it. The flash will then recognize which lens you have mounted to the camera (manual lenses being the exception) and set the zoom accordingly. If you had a zoom like the 18-55 or 16-50, you would see the flash zoom change as you zoom the lens.

You'll need to adjust the flash exposure compensation when using PTTL mode if your image is either too dark or too bright. Alternatively, you could open or close down the lens aperture.

Those camera setting I suggested earlier are merely a starting point to dialing in your exposure. You can lower the ISO to 200 or possibly even 100 depending on ambient light.

[C_Jones]

I just wanted to mention that there is a switch on the side of the AF360FGZ flash that allows you to switch between two menus to set things. So when it is in up position it offers settings you can change/set, and when it is down position it offers other settings you can change/set. You may already know that, but I just wanted to mention it in case you could not figure out why you could not change something.

Also, if you are doing a group, you may want to set your F Stop at F10 or higher, depending on how deep the people are positioned (front to back) to make sure you have enough depth of field. Using the PTTL (flash) and the camera in manual as you are will give you reasonable images. As has been mentioned, the Auto Zoom can be quite effective if you decide not to approach the manual zoom option, and it may make shooting a little easier if you are moving from one type of shot to another. Using a 200 ISO instead of 100 will allow you to save flash power, if you don't mind not using 100 ISO for all of your shots. I myself tried to use rechargeable batteries for my AF360FGZ flashes that I had, but I found that the batteries that I got at the dollar store or at Harbor Freight gave me more dependable power. I am not familiar with the Eneloop rechargeable batteries, so I cannot tell you how they may perform.

[clackers]

Problem is that my inlaws house is an older, smaller house with poor lighting and just one huge picture window that faces a street lined by trees.....so it is a very challenging environment. I have been shooting family pictures in there--birthdays, christmas, mothers/fathers day for 15 years--both handheld candids and large group shots-- and have yet to achieve a nice nice exposure that doesn't need to be fixed in post--esp hard to get it uncluttered with group shots because I wind up with three rows of people (sitting on the floor, sitting in chairs, and standing), that are jammed between the sofa and the table by the picture window.


Here is an example of the general craptastic and challenging lighting conditions in the main room at my inlaws.

Obviously, you and your family have great fun at these events, but I think you really have to take charge, Tim, to make productive that time in the evening to take photos .

IMHO, three weeks is not enough time for you to purchase a couple of flashes with radio triggers and learn both their operation and then the photography skills to get a great shot with depth out of that group portrait. Below the setup for guests at a function is two softboxes, they overlap, but the one on the left is nearly a stop hotter.

Until you master all that, an event is not a place to learn, you're supposed to do your learning prior to that. Best not to subject your family to the fumblings!

I think you're better off for now making do by twisting the flash so it's pointing into one of the ceiling corners behind you, so that the light falls on your subjects from above and in front, and this gives you a year of preparation to 'get serious'.

Even then, you should practice for the three weeks beforehand in your own house, with your wife, neighbour, cat, whatever, until you can get it and the settings right, consistently.

With only one light, you'll have to put people smoothly into the right places based on prior experience. That guy in the back had to be moved!

Flash has to be used in your case because you exposed for the lamps and the people were too dark. Expose correctly for the people and the lamps are too bright and would best be turned off. Flash corrects the imbalance.

[Sandy Hancock]

I'm glad you found a solution that didn't require spending wads of cash

[pinholecam]

I'm not convinced you need to buy anything. Augmenting what light light is available indoors with a single hot-shoe flash bounced off a nearby surface can usually get pretty good results.

Here are some shots I have taken at various types of party over the years using just that technique. They may not be terribly professional, but the subjects have generally liked them.

Mind you, absolutely none of these is straight out of camera. I certainly lack the skill to balance mixed lighting in an uncontrolled environment. No amount of new gear will fix that

+1 to this.
I used a Metz 360 before and indoors, bounced ceiling 1/4 flash power to keep recycle times good, with ISO around 800 and 1/60 shutter speed, around f2.8 to get a bit of ambient, should already be reasonable.

To TS, Practice this first before thinking of new gear.

[pentaxian_tmb]

Well....How did I do? After some test pics with my kids in the living room, I decided that was not going to work, so we did them in church. I experimented with using the bounce, going vertical with the white card, and going straight on with the diffuser hood. I know they are not balanced "ideally" as I should have had the two dudes on the end stacked in the back. And I got some glare from the flash on everyone's glasses....but they aren't paying me, so I am not spending an hour in post pixel mapping those out. I know its not professional, but, hopefully not terrible. --I get really self-conscious and nervous taking portraits, and having a bunch of squabbling people, energetic kids--all of whom lack much patience does not make for a fun time. I think I had a total of 10 minutes to get this "right"

Oh...and I am also in the pics---using a wireless shutter release behind my back for added fun.

[wadge22]

You did really really well.

Most impressive: you got everyone smiling and looking at the camera at the same time... including children. I will never be able to do that, no matter how much time I spend reading the manual for my flash.

Excellent work.