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01-17-2009, 06:22 AM   #1
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Generic flash: I think Tumax may be the source

I've been trying to track down the origin of all of the generic-brand P-TTL compatible flashes on the market Sakar/Digital Concepts, Soligar, etc.

My main theory had been that Sakar produces them (via a Chinese contract manufacturer) and licenses them to everyone else. But I haven't actually had proof of that. And just now, I discovered Icorp/Tumax. They make the familiar-looking unit, and several others as well.

Most importantly, though, they say:

In addition to producing our own merchandise, we also offer customized design service and the manufacture of private label products to suit the needs of our clients. OEM and ODM customers are welcome.
Stay tuned for updates.

01-17-2009, 11:53 AM   #2
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Ahha.

ICORP ENTERPRISES LTD.: Detailed Company Information, Imports & Exports

This, of course, doesn't prove that the flash units are the same, but is pretty good circumstantial evidence — Sakar buys stuff made by Icorp (of which Tumax is a brand).
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01-17-2009, 04:19 PM   #3
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The Valencia Bridge! I've seen her lots of times.

With only 16 cartons (totalling 256kb) they sure didn't buy a lot of whatever it was they bought.
01-17-2009, 04:22 PM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Mike Cash Quote
The Valencia Bridge! I've seen her lots of times.

With only 16 cartons (totalling 256kb) they sure didn't buy a lot of whatever it was they bought.
Presumably that's just one part of some big shipment.

01-17-2009, 05:38 PM   #5
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Here is the Xotopro twin macroflash that sells for $249 without the bracket and $449 with it (via Adorama). This thing looks a lot like a reverse engineered AF360 with 2 AF200 attached via cables. the twins themselves don't have batteries however.

01-17-2009, 05:42 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Here is the Xotopro twin macroflash that sells for $249 without the bracket and $449 with it (via Adorama). This thing looks a lot like a reverse engineered AF360 with 2 AF200 attached via cables. the twins themselves don't have batteries however.
What makes you say it looks like those flashes in specific?
01-17-2009, 05:42 PM   #7
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There isn't much out there about Xotopro and their web site doesn't reveal much. There p-ttl twin macro flash showed up out of nowhere on the Adorama catalog a couple of weeks ago. Xotopro QMM1 Macro twin flash mount
01-17-2009, 05:43 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
What makes you say it looks like those flashes in specific?
Shape and specifications of the individual units.

01-17-2009, 05:46 PM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Shape and specifications of the individual units.
*shrug* the look pretty dissimilar to me. I mean, the AF360FGZ is a mid-sized flash with tilt but no swivel, and the AF200FG is a smaller fixed flash, but the similarities kind of stop there, don't they?
01-17-2009, 06:00 PM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
*shrug* the look pretty dissimilar to me. I mean, the AF360FGZ is a mid-sized flash with tilt but no swivel, and the AF200FG is a smaller fixed flash, but the similarities kind of stop there, don't they?
I'm putting more emphasis on the features and specifics themselves and the fact that it is not uncommon for firms to reverse engineer things and contract them to be built in a Chinese factory.

The twins have a GN of 19.7 and the AF200 has a GN of 20.

The controller has a GN of 104 and the AF360 is 118.8

Then there is the way the cable system is incorporated from the twins to the controller.

Of course, they make units for Canon E-TTL, Nikon i-TTL, Pentax P-TTL, Olympus & Panasonic TTL, Sony ADI. They had to do some reverse engineering on all of these.

Given the fact that the Pentax AF160 isn't on the market yet, they had to get the p-ttl down some how.
01-17-2009, 06:02 PM   #11
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Oh, I'm sure they're reverse-engineered in some way.

Anyway, my particular interest is to find who is the actual maker of these things, who did the engineering and who will tell me the actual specifications in detail.

(I'm also interested to see what they have to say about the comments people have about the flash not actually living up to the claimed guide numbers.)
01-17-2009, 06:04 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
Presumably that's just one part of some big shipment.
I suppose it is possible that they booked an entire container and filled the rest of it with orders to other customers inside North America, but I believe it is more likely that this was just a 16 case order to a single customer that got bundled in together with other partial loads from unrelated shippers.
01-18-2009, 09:27 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
The twins have a GN of 19.7 and the AF200 has a GN of 20.
I just noticed that actually the twin units have a guide number of 19.7 feet or 6m. That's significantly less power than the AF200FG, or even than the camera's built-in flash! I mean, significantly. Like, a tenth the power of the AF200FG.

QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
The controller has a GN of 104 and the AF360 is 118.8
This is closer 32m vs. 36mm. But that's still a difference in power of 25%. (And assuming the Tumax numbers are accurate, which they may not be.)
01-18-2009, 09:45 AM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by mattdm Quote
I just noticed that actually the twin units have a guide number of 19.7 feet or 6m. That's significantly less power than the AF200FG, or even than the camera's built-in flash! I mean, significantly. Like, a tenth the power of the AF200FG.



This is closer 32m vs. 36mm. But that's still a difference in power of 25%. (And assuming the Tumax numbers are accurate, which they may not be.)
Its actually good that the twins power is dialed back for a macro unit. This also makes it easier to power them from the controllers power pack.

I had actually considered doing something like this with a couple of AF 200 flashes and cables but decided not to because of 1) too powerful and 2) the cost after the cables were figured into it.
01-18-2009, 09:53 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
Its actually good that the twins power is dialed back for a macro unit. This also makes it easier to power them from the controllers power pack.
Yeah, it's not necessarily a problem or anything just definitely unique. Actually, though, I'm surprised they're so large and heavy. There's no batteries in there, and we're talking about less than a third the power of the K1000/K-m's built-in flash. Xotopro clearly asked Tumax to put together something out of available designs rather than designing something new.
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