[JohnT]

Please help me.

I have a K20D and Af360FGZ.

Picture the scene - very dark indoor music venue, disco lights, stage, people and very little ambient light.

I was trying to take shots of the band performing whislt still retaining the atmosphere of the gig, i.e. a little fill flash without bleaching out the shot to remove all atmosphere whatsoever.

I just want to raise the lighting sufficiently to freeze and sharpen the subject, say the lead singer, whislt still retaining some of the atmospheric lighting already in the frame

I know this has probably been answered a 1000 times on here but I am new and would like, if possible, some of you really experienced knowledgeable peeps to point me in the right direction.

The settings I was using predominantly....
Camera - ISO400/560, 1/30-1/125s, f5.6-f8.0 Matrix and spot metering.
Flash - PTTL with -1 and -2 flash compensation programmed.

the shots - blown out.

I have done some experiments getting varying results - some good, some underexposed and many overexposed.

I cannot figure out any optimal settings with which to start from.
I cannot find a manual or tutorial as a guide to different settings for different results and situations.
I am completely lost with this flash and I am convinced any good results I get are by sheer chance and luck.

I want to be able to know what the flash and the camera are doing, so I am able to slightly amend settings to get the result I am looking for.

Can any of you experts point me in the right direction.

Please.

[StarDust]

I'm not 100 % certain what you problem is, maybe you could post an example. Still, I'll try to help, I have the same flash.
A couple of weeks ago I was shooting with studio flashes and for a brief moment I switched to the 360 whereas all my photos were underexposed. I was praying that my flash's TTL wasn't broke but later I figured out that the studio flashes were firing exactly when my camera was metering the light.
I'm kind of thinking that maybe you're metering when the disco lights are off and exposing when the disco lights are on. My suggestion is that you switch to full manual, manual on the camera, minimum 1/45 s since I've noticed that any lower and the movement of people starts to show. Set the flash to about 1/8, it depends on the distance and ambient lighting and compensate with ISO and aperture setting to get the right exposure.

I do some club photography and shoot at 1/4 s but then my shots are intentionally blurry.
The best way is to try and get the right setting and afterwards maybe you just have to stop down or up a little in photoshop or take another picture. At 1/8 strength and fully charged batteries you can probably take three pictures with a ½ second pause until the flash needs a longer recharge time.

[JohnT]

thanks stardust.

I am sorry I did not explain myself properly.

I have two problems and I am looking for one outcome.

I am looking to get a subtle fill flash without overexposing or underexposing, whislt still maintaining the normal nightlife atmosphere, i.e. coloured lights, smoke machine etc.

What I am getting though is either one of two conditions
1. totally bleached out result - lost all lighting and atmosphere of the gig, for example, white shirt which is lluminated say under a green or yellow light comes out brilliant white.
2. underexposed where the flash does not seem to be doing anything.

I have been using PTTL setting with only -2 flash compensation puped into the camera.

when I get an underexposed shot, I have tried the same settings as the underexposed shot in Auto and the result is better though a little overexposed.

when I have overexposed I have used manual with 1/8 and even 1.6 power - exactly the same result as PTTL

another issue - in PTTL why will the flash not fire if the shutter speed in camera is >1/180s.

I am baffled.

Please guide me in the right direction as I am sure it is nothing to do with the flash or my K20D. I am sure the settings I am using do not lend themselves to what the optimum settings should be.

[StarDust]

Well the 1/180 s part is easy, that question popped up earlier today or yesterday. The cameras/flash sync speed is 1/180 s meaning the ideal speed for camera and flash is just that speed. Anything longer and the flash will not give additional lighting. If it's shorter the entire flash period will not be absorbed into the exposure. However ( ! ) if you set your smart 360 flash to high synch it can compensate for that and give a brighter burst (or something). You can set that on the back of the flash, push the knob to the far right (HS) I think.

Now I'm not that expert that you were looking for but I think it's a pretty accurate explanation.

It's interesting how you have to set the flash to negative exposure, I always have to over-expose my flash (standard Pentax problem, trying to save the over-exposed parts I guess).

Are you bouncing the light? These are indoor events and the ceiling is hopefully not too high, no more than 5 meters (worst condition for bouncing from ceilings). You can also bounce on walls. The flash is wireless, take it into your hand, set it to slave ( S ), set the onboard flash to wireless ( W ) and pop it up, and you have a wireless flash in your hand.
Have you tried to use a bouncer or a whale tail? Google it and you'll find examples, youtube also have explanatory videos. I'm using a normal bouncer (tupperware on the flash) and it works well for me but I have to choose the correct angle to bounce to get a good exposure of audience and DJ in my case.

white shirt which is lluminated say under a green or yellow light comes out brilliant white.

Sounds like a classic case of deer in front of the headlights just before the collision, meaning head-on flash is not the best approach.

You have a bounce card that you can pull out from the flash, try using that.

Your camera equipment is not failing you, apart from maybe you might need a larger flash and a lens with an incredibly large aperture.

It's possible your shots were over exposed because the exposure was just too long.

[er1kksen]

Easy potential fix: Use the "slow-sync" setting, try setting the flash at a different angle and/or reflecting it off something if the light is still too direct. This setting uses the a longer exposure (as if you weren't using flash) to capture the background and ambient lighting, while using the flash to freeze the main subject. I believe you can even use slow-sync while firing the flash remotely, so as to get just the right lighting angle from the flash.

[Jodokast96]

Try dropping the ISO. On a side note and off topic, I was damned surprised at how much power that little flash put out. At 70 or so feet and ISO 1600, that thing lit up a subject in a 100% dark auditorium with enough of a shutter speed at 300mm to be usable.

[dafiryde]

Please help me.

I have a K20D and Af360FGZ.

Picture the scene - very dark indoor music venue, disco lights, stage, people and very little ambient light.

I was trying to take shots of the band performing whislt still retaining the atmosphere of the gig, i.e. a little fill flash without bleaching out the shot to remove all atmosphere whatsoever.

I just want to raise the lighting sufficiently to freeze and sharpen the subject, say the lead singer, whislt still retaining some of the atmospheric lighting already in the frame

I know this has probably been answered a 1000 times on here but I am new and would like, if possible, some of you really experienced knowledgeable peeps to point me in the right direction.

The settings I was using predominantly....
Camera - ISO400/560, 1/30-1/125s, f5.6-f8.0 Matrix and spot metering.
Flash - PTTL with -1 and -2 flash compensation programmed.

the shots - blown out.

I have done some experiments getting varying results - some good, some underexposed and many overexposed.

I cannot figure out any optimal settings with which to start from.
I cannot find a manual or tutorial as a guide to different settings for different results and situations.
I am completely lost with this flash and I am convinced any good results I get are by sheer chance and luck.

I want to be able to know what the flash and the camera are doing, so I am able to slightly amend settings to get the result I am looking for.

Can any of you experts point me in the right direction.

Please.

i foud that solution the hard way
shoot in manual mode

Dave

[mbh]

Funny - I've just run into a similar problem. I just upgraded from a K-M to a K20 and use a 360 flash. I seldom ran into exposure issues with the K-M but have had many underexposed shots with the K20 so far. I've only had the K20 for 4 days, so I've chalked it up to user error thus far. I'm very amateur and learning as I go.

But here's what I've learnt - keep in mind I've been in Av and P mode - cranking ISO to 800 has helped me a good exposure. At 200 or 400 (and thats what I normally used indoor with the K-M with good result) I got very underexposed shots. Rather than adjusting flash power I've been adding +.7 to +1.0 exposure compensation.

But I believe I've got a shutter speed issue. I'd have to go back and check, but I think many of my underexposed shots were at around 1/50s. I'll continue to experiment. I think my solution will be to try and take the same shot with shutter speeds closer to 1/180.

From those more experienced - am I on the right track?

Maybe I need a better lens - I'm new here but that seems to be the answer to everything!

[StarDust]

I doubt that the shutter speed has much to do with underexposed shots. The flash fires at 1/180 s and after that the camera collects the ambient light in the room. Your photo can only get brighter. I'm also guessing that the flash is set to a strength as if the camera were shooting at 1/180 s and does not account for the slower shutter speed unless you're in slow sync or something.

[mattdm]

I doubt that the shutter speed has much to do with underexposed shots. The flash fires at 1/180 s and after that the camera collects the ambient light in the room.

As an aside — probably much faster than ¹⁄₁₈₀th, unless you're firing at full power.

[marcdsgn]

This isn't an answer to your specific question, but may be information that you need in order to understand why you won't really achieve what you're expecting, regardless of any equipment issues...

The qualities of ambient light wlll always be lost once a front-on light source is added (ie: camera-mounted flash). Bouncing off the ceiling will make the effect of the flash less intrusive, but will still drown out the ambient light.

Adding a complementary gell (similar colour to the ambient lightsource) to your flash will help to artificially re-introduce the ambient feel to some degree, but it still won't look the way you see it through your own eyes.

But if you're hoping to capture ambient light as is, then you need to shoot without a flash, and that's where manual adjustment of ISO, aperture and shutter-speed comes into play, because auto features on a camera aren't designed to capture ambient light - They're designed to pull in as much light as needed to get a nice "bell shape" on the image's histogram.

[deuces]

You're asking the camera/flash to do something very very specific (just add a little fill, but keep ambience), but automatically (P-TTL). While I _think_ Av tries to do this, I think your best best is to be in full manual mode, on the camera and on the flash. Set the camera up to underexpose slightly without flash, then add a bit of flash in manual mode, chimp, adjust. Once you've got it set up, as long as you control your distance to subject, you should get consistent shots.

Move the flash off-camera to get rid of the onboard flash look.

[Parallax]

My experience with mine is that P-TTL is extremely erratic (read: sucks!). The flash functions beautifully in Auto and Manual, but the shots I get in P-TTL that are exposed the way I expect them to be are few and far between.