Question on Metz 48 AF-1 zoom information

Taikonaut · 04-22-2009, 10:04 PM

DA 17-70mm/4 and Metz 48 AF-1 are attached to my K20D. When I zoom the lens from 17mm to 70mm, the Metz flash gives the focal length from 24mm to 85mm (35mm format). It looks like the Metz flash is always on the conservative side as the 35mm equivalent focal length for 17 to 70mm is 26 to 105mm. Is this the way how the Metz flash works, or I set up something wrong there? Manually, the Metz flash can go from 24mm to 105mm. Your comments are really appreciated.

Russell-Evans · 04-23-2009, 01:54 AM

9.9 Shooting format adjustment (S Zoom)
The display for the position of the main reflector for digital cameras is adapted
to the chip format (dimensions of image component) using the zoom size function
(„S Zoom“).
Setting procedure
• actuate the shutter release in order to transfer data from the flash unit to the
camera.
• repeatedly press button combination „Select“ until „Zoom“ appears in the
display and „S“ flashes.
• the required settings can be applied using the ( + ) and ( - ) buttons.
- when „S On“ is displayed the Zoom-Size function is activated.
- when „S Off“ is displayed the Zoom-Size function is deactivated.
The setting takes effect immediately. After about 5 seconds the display stops flashing
and the setting is saved automatically. „S“ is shown in the display following
activation of the Zoom-Size function.

Thank you
Russell

mattdm · 04-23-2009, 04:45 AM

Originally posted by Taikonaut

DA 17-70mm/4 and Metz 48 AF-1 are attached to my K20D. When I zoom the lens from 17mm to 70mm, the Metz flash gives the focal length from 24mm to 85mm (35mm format). It looks like the Metz flash is always on the conservative side as the 35mm equivalent focal length for 17 to 70mm is 26 to 105mm. Is this the way how the Metz flash works, or I set up something wrong there? Manually, the Metz flash can go from 24mm to 105mm. Your comments are really appreciated.

I think the S zoom setting just affects the display. not the actual behavior. There's a separate setting (extended zoom) which will make it more conservative, but that doesn't help either.

(Edit: unless you have it turned on already and should turn it off, of course.)

I haven't paid too much attention to this, but I'll check later today with my DA 70mm and see how it behaves.

Russell-Evans · 04-23-2009, 05:01 AM

Originally posted by mattdm

(Edit: unless you have it turned on already and should turn it off, of course.)

I think you are right on this. It would be one step behind, so at 70mm (105mm eq.) would be at 85mm.

9.6 Extended Zoom Mode („Ex“)
In extended zoom mode the zoom position of the main reflector is reduced to
one level below the focal length of the camera lens. The resulting expanded and
broader light coverage provides additional dispersed light (reflections) inside
rooms so that a softer flash illumination is possible.
Example:
The focal length of the camera lens is 50 mm. The extended zoom mode sets a
35 mm reflector position on the flash unit. However, 50 mm continues to be
shown on the display.

Setting procedure
• repeatedly press button combination „Select“ until „Zoom“ appears in the
display and „Ex“ flashes. The required settings can be applied using the ( + )
and ( - ) buttons.
- When „Ex On“ is displayed, the extended zoom mode is activated.
- When „Ex OFF“ is displayed, the extended zoom mode is deactivated.
The setting takes effect immediately. After about five seconds the display stops
flashing and the setting is saved automatically. After activation of the extended
zoom mode „Ex“ appears in the display.
Depending on the system, the extended zoom mode is supported for lens
focal lengths of 28 mm or more (35mm format). The camera must be
equipped with a CPU lens and be able to transfer data on the lens focal
length to the flash unit.

edit: Thinking about this again, if the zoom display was set previously, then it is possible the flash is just reporting the correct focal length for the sensor format.

Thank you
Russell

Last edited by Russell-Evans; 04-23-2009 at 05:36 AM.

Taikonaut · 04-23-2009, 06:27 AM

In S Zoom mode, the flash displays 16 to 57mm for my 17-70mm zoom. Manually, it can go from 16 to 70mm.
„Ex“ Mode is off.

Russell-Evans · 04-23-2009, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by Taikonaut

In S Zoom mode, the flash displays 16 to 57mm for my 17-70mm zoom. Manually, it can go from 16 to 70mm.
„Ex“ Mode is off.

Is the focus distance being used, really close? The focal length changes with the subject distance when using Internal Focus lenses. The Sigma 17-70mm will only be 70mm when the zoom is at 70mm and the focus is at infinity.

Thank you
Russell

Taikonaut · 04-23-2009, 06:56 AM

Yes. My DA 17-70mm is an "IF" lens. The focal length will change with focus disntances? I don't know "IF" lenses have such a feature. And I tested indoor, so the focus distances are just a few meters. I will try to see what happens if I make it focus at infinity. Thanks.

Originally posted by Russell-Evans

Is the focus distance being used, really close? The focal length changes with the subject distance when using Internal Focus lenses. The Sigma 17-70mm will only be 70mm when the zoom is at 70mm and the focus is at infinity.

Thank you
Russell

Russell-Evans · 04-23-2009, 08:19 AM

Originally posted by Taikonaut

Yes. My DA 17-70mm is an "IF" lens. The focal length will change with focus distances? I don't know "IF" lenses have such a feature. And I tested indoor, so the focus distances are just a few meters. I will try to see what happens if I make it focus at infinity. Thanks.

I got a chance to try this with the 18-50mm and it doesn't have an effect on the flash. At 50mm on the lens, the flash read 47mm for its zoom, S mode is set, regardless of close or infinity focus. I also repeated this with the Tamron 18-250mm at 250mm and it is known to be around 90mm when close focused, i.e. using its macro mode. I had to around 85mm for the flash zoom to change, not matter the focus distance on it too.

What is the focal length reported in the exif data? Do you have a longer lens to try? It could be the lens isn't reporting the correct focal lenght or the flash's zoom is not able to get to a higher zoom setting.

Thank you
Russell

Taikonaut · 04-23-2009, 07:28 PM

The reported focal length in exif data is correct. I also tried to focus at infinity, but nothing changed.

Russell-Evans · 04-23-2009, 07:40 PM

Originally posted by Taikonaut

The reported focal length in exif data is correct. I also tried to focus at infinity, but nothing changed.

The only thing I can suggest is to try a lens longer that 100mm to see if the flash's zoom is stuck below 70mm.

Thank you
Russell

simico · 04-24-2009, 12:59 AM

Originally posted by Russell-Evans

I got a chance to try this with the 18-50mm and it doesn't have an effect on the flash .... I also repeated this with the Tamron 18-250mm

Neither of those lenses use internal focusing.

simico · 04-24-2009, 01:03 AM

Btw the zoom positions are not continous, there are zoom position steps. E.g. it doesn't matter if your lens is at 47mm or 49mm or 50mm, the head will be in the same position. It will move to the next step if there is a significant change in lens focal lenght (honestly, few mm changes doesn't matter for flash).

Russell-Evans · 04-24-2009, 01:44 AM

Originally posted by simico

Neither of those lenses use internal focusing.

You are right about the Sigma 18-50mm, but I think the Tamron is an IF lens. Tamron AF18-250mm F/3.5-6.3 Di-II LD Aspherical (IF) Macro

Thank you
Russell

Fable · 07-01-2009, 02:44 AM

Hi,
I'm wondering how the flash would behave when using a manual lens? Dose it zoom to the focal length that I set for the SR system?

Anybody has experience with this?

EricT · 07-03-2009, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by Taikonaut

DA 17-70mm/4 and Metz 48 AF-1 are attached to my K20D. When I zoom the lens from 17mm to 70mm, the Metz flash gives the focal length from 24mm to 85mm (35mm format). It looks like the Metz flash is always on the conservative side as the 35mm equivalent focal length for 17 to 70mm is 26 to 105mm. Is this the way how the Metz flash works, or I set up something wrong there? Manually, the Metz flash can go from 24mm to 105mm. Your comments are really appreciated.

What is the problem with it being on the conservative side? Do you have any shots to post where this has been an issue? I have the same flash myself, and have never experienced any problems related to this.

04-22-2009, 10:04 PM	#1
Taikonaut Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 62	Question on Metz 48 AF-1 zoom information DA 17-70mm/4 and Metz 48 AF-1 are attached to my K20D. When I zoom the lens from 17mm to 70mm, the Metz flash gives the focal length from 24mm to 85mm (35mm format). It looks like the Metz flash is always on the conservative side as the 35mm equivalent focal length for 17 to 70mm is 26 to 105mm. Is this the way how the Metz flash works, or I set up something wrong there? Manually, the Metz flash can go from 24mm to 105mm. Your comments are really appreciated.

04-23-2009, 01:54 AM	#2
Russell-Evans Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,553	From the Manual 9.9 Shooting format adjustment (S Zoom) The display for the position of the main reflector for digital cameras is adapted to the chip format (dimensions of image component) using the zoom size function („S Zoom“). Setting procedure • actuate the shutter release in order to transfer data from the flash unit to the camera. • repeatedly press button combination „Select“ until „Zoom“ appears in the display and „S“ flashes. • the required settings can be applied using the ( + ) and ( - ) buttons. - when „S On“ is displayed the Zoom-Size function is activated. - when „S Off“ is displayed the Zoom-Size function is deactivated. The setting takes effect immediately. After about 5 seconds the display stops flashing and the setting is saved automatically. „S“ is shown in the display following activation of the Zoom-Size function. Thank you Russell

04-23-2009, 08:19 AM	#8
Russell-Evans Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,553	Originally posted by Taikonaut Yes. My DA 17-70mm is an "IF" lens. The focal length will change with focus distances? I don't know "IF" lenses have such a feature. And I tested indoor, so the focus distances are just a few meters. I will try to see what happens if I make it focus at infinity. Thanks. I got a chance to try this with the 18-50mm and it doesn't have an effect on the flash. At 50mm on the lens, the flash read 47mm for its zoom, S mode is set, regardless of close or infinity focus. I also repeated this with the Tamron 18-250mm at 250mm and it is known to be around 90mm when close focused, i.e. using its macro mode. I had to around 85mm for the flash zoom to change, not matter the focus distance on it too. What is the focal length reported in the exif data? Do you have a longer lens to try? It could be the lens isn't reporting the correct focal lenght or the flash's zoom is not able to get to a higher zoom setting. Thank you Russell Last edited by Russell-Evans; 04-23-2009 at 12:25 PM.

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04-23-2009, 04:45 AM	#3
mattdm Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Boston, MA Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,948	Originally posted by Taikonaut DA 17-70mm/4 and Metz 48 AF-1 are attached to my K20D. When I zoom the lens from 17mm to 70mm, the Metz flash gives the focal length from 24mm to 85mm (35mm format). It looks like the Metz flash is always on the conservative side as the 35mm equivalent focal length for 17 to 70mm is 26 to 105mm. Is this the way how the Metz flash works, or I set up something wrong there? Manually, the Metz flash can go from 24mm to 105mm. Your comments are really appreciated. I think the S zoom setting just affects the display. not the actual behavior. There's a separate setting (extended zoom) which will make it more conservative, but that doesn't help either. (Edit: unless you have it turned on already and should turn it off, of course.) I haven't paid too much attention to this, but I'll check later today with my DA 70mm and see how it behaves.

04-23-2009, 05:01 AM	#4
Russell-Evans Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,553	Originally posted by mattdm (Edit: unless you have it turned on already and should turn it off, of course.) I think you are right on this. It would be one step behind, so at 70mm (105mm eq.) would be at 85mm. 9.6 Extended Zoom Mode („Ex“) In extended zoom mode the zoom position of the main reflector is reduced to one level below the focal length of the camera lens. The resulting expanded and broader light coverage provides additional dispersed light (reflections) inside rooms so that a softer flash illumination is possible. Example: The focal length of the camera lens is 50 mm. The extended zoom mode sets a 35 mm reflector position on the flash unit. However, 50 mm continues to be shown on the display. Setting procedure • repeatedly press button combination „Select“ until „Zoom“ appears in the display and „Ex“ flashes. The required settings can be applied using the ( + ) and ( - ) buttons. - When „Ex On“ is displayed, the extended zoom mode is activated. - When „Ex OFF“ is displayed, the extended zoom mode is deactivated. The setting takes effect immediately. After about five seconds the display stops flashing and the setting is saved automatically. After activation of the extended zoom mode „Ex“ appears in the display. Depending on the system, the extended zoom mode is supported for lens focal lengths of 28 mm or more (35mm format). The camera must be equipped with a CPU lens and be able to transfer data on the lens focal length to the flash unit. edit: Thinking about this again, if the zoom display was set previously, then it is possible the flash is just reporting the correct focal length for the sensor format. Thank you Russell Last edited by Russell-Evans; 04-23-2009 at 05:36 AM.

04-23-2009, 06:27 AM	#5
Taikonaut Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 62 Original Poster	In S Zoom mode, the flash displays 16 to 57mm for my 17-70mm zoom. Manually, it can go from 16 to 70mm. „Ex“ Mode is off.

04-23-2009, 06:49 AM	#6
Russell-Evans Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,553	Originally posted by Taikonaut In S Zoom mode, the flash displays 16 to 57mm for my 17-70mm zoom. Manually, it can go from 16 to 70mm. „Ex“ Mode is off. Is the focus distance being used, really close? The focal length changes with the subject distance when using Internal Focus lenses. The Sigma 17-70mm will only be 70mm when the zoom is at 70mm and the focus is at infinity. Thank you Russell

04-23-2009, 06:56 AM	#7
Taikonaut Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 62 Original Poster	Yes. My DA 17-70mm is an "IF" lens. The focal length will change with focus disntances? I don't know "IF" lenses have such a feature. And I tested indoor, so the focus distances are just a few meters. I will try to see what happens if I make it focus at infinity. Thanks. Originally posted by Russell-Evans Is the focus distance being used, really close? The focal length changes with the subject distance when using Internal Focus lenses. The Sigma 17-70mm will only be 70mm when the zoom is at 70mm and the focus is at infinity. Thank you Russell

04-23-2009, 07:28 PM	#9
Taikonaut Forum Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: New York Posts: 62 Original Poster	The reported focal length in exif data is correct. I also tried to focus at infinity, but nothing changed.

04-23-2009, 07:40 PM	#10
Russell-Evans Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,553	Originally posted by Taikonaut The reported focal length in exif data is correct. I also tried to focus at infinity, but nothing changed. The only thing I can suggest is to try a lens longer that 100mm to see if the flash's zoom is stuck below 70mm. Thank you Russell

04-24-2009, 12:59 AM	#11
simico Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Budapest Posts: 821	Originally posted by Russell-Evans I got a chance to try this with the 18-50mm and it doesn't have an effect on the flash .... I also repeated this with the Tamron 18-250mm Neither of those lenses use internal focusing.

04-24-2009, 01:03 AM	#12
simico Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Budapest Posts: 821	Btw the zoom positions are not continous, there are zoom position steps. E.g. it doesn't matter if your lens is at 47mm or 49mm or 50mm, the head will be in the same position. It will move to the next step if there is a significant change in lens focal lenght (honestly, few mm changes doesn't matter for flash).

04-24-2009, 01:44 AM	#13
Russell-Evans Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,553	Originally posted by simico Neither of those lenses use internal focusing. You are right about the Sigma 18-50mm, but I think the Tamron is an IF lens. Tamron AF18-250mm F/3.5-6.3 Di-II LD Aspherical (IF) Macro Thank you Russell

07-01-2009, 02:44 AM	#14
Fable New Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Montpellier, France Posts: 3	Hi, I'm wondering how the flash would behave when using a manual lens? Dose it zoom to the focal length that I set for the SR system? Anybody has experience with this?

07-03-2009, 02:21 AM	#15
EricT Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 484	Originally posted by Taikonaut DA 17-70mm/4 and Metz 48 AF-1 are attached to my K20D. When I zoom the lens from 17mm to 70mm, the Metz flash gives the focal length from 24mm to 85mm (35mm format). It looks like the Metz flash is always on the conservative side as the 35mm equivalent focal length for 17 to 70mm is 26 to 105mm. Is this the way how the Metz flash works, or I set up something wrong there? Manually, the Metz flash can go from 24mm to 105mm. Your comments are really appreciated. What is the problem with it being on the conservative side? Do you have any shots to post where this has been an issue? I have the same flash myself, and have never experienced any problems related to this.