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07-20-2009, 11:46 PM   #1
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Pentax AF 360 vs. Metz 48 AF-1 Flash

I wanted a flash for the K7 that was affordable and had wireless and autozoom capabilities.

So far, my search has come to these two... the Pentax AF-360 and the Metz 48 AF. Both are around $225.

The Metz seems to have more features plus it has swivel. However, it looks huge. The Pentax AF-360 has most of those features, minus swivel, but seems to be a LOT smaller and lighter.

I am interested in a flash mostly for better indoor shots. Portability is important to me and so I am leaning towards the Pentax, but the Metz seems to have to many more features, plus it has swivel. However, I have heard that I could always use the wireless mode on the Pentax 360AF as a workaround.

Any thoughts?

07-21-2009, 02:51 AM   #2
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I was also considering these two flashes (the price of these were almost the same here) and finally chose the Metz. It has more power (the 360's guide number is only 30, not a lot of power...), a bit more extra features and can swivel. It doesn't have auto mode though (which I don't care for).
Sure wireless can be a workaround for lack of swivel of the Pentax 360, but there are situations when you can't use wireless for some reason.
07-21-2009, 04:39 AM   #3
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Same thing here! Looking to buy one of those two, but I thinkg I will go with the Metz since it is a little cheaper, swivel and a lot of power
07-21-2009, 05:18 AM   #4
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I had to choose among the Pentax 360, Metz 48 and a Sigma model of the same price. I ended up with the Metz after first buying the Sigma from B&H and it was all but DOA so I took that as a hint and returned it for the Metz. The Metz power and swivel get used, especially the swivel indoors for bouncing off a light wall when you need one or the ceiling while in portrait mode. If not for swivel, I would have gone with the lower power Pentax just for the brand name.

There is another thread about two weeks old touting the virtues of Auto mode over P-TTL. Since the Metz does not support Auto I don't miss it but you might. Just a thought.

07-21-2009, 06:50 AM   #5
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I own both the Pentax 360FGZ and the Metz 48 AF-1. The Metz wins - hands down.

- *Much better build* quality on the Metz! (The battery door closes & stays closed, it easily slides on and off the hotshoe, and the whole thing doesn't feel like it is always about to break)
- Swivel must not be underrated. If you think you can do without it, try any non-swivel flash for 15 minutes and you will want the swivel.
- Very fast refresh time with fresh batteries (under 4 seconds vs. 6+ for Pentax and Sigma)
- Better balanced light and diffusion when used straight on - the Pentax is harsh unless bounced.
- Manual was written by a human being

The pluses for the Pentax are:
- Better interface (more buttons, easier to see your current settings)
- Cheaper (typically)
- Comes with a bag and little stand (the Metz does not)
07-21-2009, 07:11 AM   #6
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Does any of them have auto mode (having its own light sensor)?

I wouldn't buy any flash unit without that feature.
07-21-2009, 07:41 AM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by SOldBear Quote
Does any of them have auto mode (having its own light sensor)?

I wouldn't buy any flash unit without that feature.

Careful panoguy, SOldbear already knows the answer to the question since he bashed me about the head and shoulders for using P-TTL mode instead of Auto in another thread.

sniff, sniff.....the Metz 48 does not support Auto and I bought it anyway. Damn my ignorance!

I'm just funnin with ya SOldbear. When I bought it in March I didn't even know that Auto mode existed much less that I might need it. Now every time I answer a question in a thread about the Metz I have to look over my shoulder for you. Hope you are not big and mean.

07-21-2009, 08:00 AM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
I own both the Pentax 360FGZ and the Metz 48 AF-1. The Metz wins - hands down.

- *Much better build* quality on the Metz! (The battery door closes & stays closed, it easily slides on and off the hotshoe, and the whole thing doesn't feel like it is always about to break)
- Swivel must not be underrated. If you think you can do without it, try any non-swivel flash for 15 minutes and you will want the swivel.
- Very fast refresh time with fresh batteries (under 4 seconds vs. 6+ for Pentax and Sigma)
- Better balanced light and diffusion when used straight on - the Pentax is harsh unless bounced.
- Manual was written by a human being

The pluses for the Pentax are:
- Better interface (more buttons, easier to see your current settings)
- Cheaper (typically)
- Comes with a bag and little stand (the Metz does not)

I agree with Panoguy. I too own both. I bought the Metz originally and then bought a close out (Thanks, Ritz) Pentax. In fairness, I don't think either is cheaply built for everyday use, but the Metz is nicer. The swivel is a destinct advantage.

If you plan on doing any off camera (with wireless triggers), I would consider getting a model with a PC sync port. I bought an old (ahem) Nikon sb 26. I think it is nicer than both the Pentax and the Metz. Of course, you can't mount it to the hot shoe, though. Does anyone still use on camera flash? (just kidding). The wireless Pentax system using the pop up is quite limited and at times frustrating.
07-21-2009, 09:36 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by MSM Quote
I bought an old (ahem) Nikon sb 26. I think it is nicer than both the Pentax and the Metz. Of course, you can't mount it to the hot shoe, though.
May I ask why the SB-26 can't be mounted to the hot shoe?
07-21-2009, 10:00 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by swhang Quote
The Metz seems to have more features plus it has swivel. However, it looks huge. The Pentax AF-360 has most of those features, minus swivel, but seems to be a LOT smaller and lighter.









The Metz 48 is a little longer than the 360FGZ, but the 360FGZ has a beer belly where the 48 AF-1 has a washboard stomach. With batteries in the flash, the Metz 48 AF-1 weighs 2.5 oz more than the Pentax AF 360FGZ.


QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
I own both the Pentax 360FGZ and the Metz 48 AF-1. The Metz wins - hands down.

- *Much better build* quality on the Metz! (The battery door closes & stays closed, it easily slides on and off the hotshoe, and the whole thing doesn't feel like it is always about to break)
- Swivel must not be underrated. If you think you can do without it, try any non-swivel flash for 15 minutes and you will want the swivel.
- Very fast refresh time with fresh batteries (under 4 seconds vs. 6+ for Pentax and Sigma)
- Better balanced light and diffusion when used straight on - the Pentax is harsh unless bounced.
- Manual was written by a human being

The pluses for the Pentax are:
- Better interface (more buttons, easier to see your current settings)
- Cheaper (typically)
- Comes with a bag and little stand (the Metz does not)
I don't see much if any difference in the build quality. They both are just plastic boxes. The Metz has the traditional four square layout for the batteries where the Pentax has a three and one layout for the batteries. The Metz battery door however, gets in the way of putting all four batteries in the flash at the same time. You have to put the two rear ones in first and then put in the front two. This kind of makes it a wash between the two for battery insertion ease in my opinion.

I can't comment on the refresh rate as I don't need the flashes to be fast for what I do.

As to better straight on, I don't use the flash head on, but I would have to say it is really subjective.

I didn't find either manual to helpful other than in determining what the buttons do.

The Pentax flash's interface is easier to work with except for changing EV values. The round wheel on the Pentax is impossible for me. I curse it every time I have to use it.

QuoteOriginally posted by SOldBear Quote
Does any of them have auto mode (having its own light sensor)?
The Pentax AF 360FGZ has Auto Mode.

There are differences in wireless operation between the two. The Metz is a wireless P-TTL slave only and it doesn't have support to be a controller or a master. The Metz is only P-TTL in wireless. It can do -3 to +3 FEV in this mode to provide more control over the lighting of the scene as well as the addition of the camera's FEV.

The Pentax has wireless P-TTL mode and a simple optical slave mode. In wireless P-TTL the flash can be P-TTL with contrast control increments of 1/3, 2/3 , and 1/1, plus has FEV settings of -3 to +1 as well as the camera's FEV.

In this wireless mode as well, Manual and Auto modes are available. How these modes work with the P-TTL wireless is beyond my understanding, but my simple assumption is it is a digital optical slave mode when used this way.

In the simple optical slave mode, the S2 mode, Auto and Manual modes are again available, but the flash requires a single main flash trigger without preflash.

The Metz can do contrast control when wired, or at least I think it can only be done when wired, since once the flash enters wireless, this option is no longer available in the menu structure. The Metz flash provides 2/3 of the light for the scene and the other flash provides the rest. The AF360FGZ offers contrast control in wireless with contrast control increments of 1/3, 2/3 , and 1/1, and wired where the ratio is 1:2 between the flash on the camera, on board or external, and the remote 360FGZ.

The Metz offers a flash bracketing option. This is completely separate from the camera's bracketing. Basically once the option is set on the flash, the flash outputs three levels of light, one level for each of three photos. The difference of FEV used between the three photos can be set from 1/3 to 3 apertures in 1/3 increments.

The Metz has a zoom feature that lets the flash use the next lower zoom level instead of the level indicated by the actual focal length. This is a separate setting than adjusting the display for cropped sensors. Metz says this in the user manual about the reason to use this option: "The resulting expanded and broader light coverage provides additional dispersed light (reflections) inside rooms so that a softer flash illumination is possible."

The Metz and the Pentax both offer a SB mode and AF assist. There is a difference in the beam of the two flashes however. The Pentax beam is more than 2/3 larger than the beam of the Metz for a given distance. The light pattern is also different, with the Metz being only vertical bands of light and dark where the Pentax has vertical bands only in the center of the beam with horizontal bands of light and dark emanating away from the center. I'm going to assume the SB of the Metz will allow for greater distance than the Pentax, but the Pentax would allow for the possibility of catching more contrast areas within its range.

Both flashes have a manual mode. The difference between the two for power settings being that the Metz goes from 1/1 to 1/128 and the Pentax goes from 1/1 to 1/32 in power output. With the Metz, manual on the flash can be used in any camera mode. With the Pentax, manual and auto flash modes are disabled for any camera mode except; manual, bulb, and x-sync. The Metz has a digital footage read out for subject distance that at ISO 6400, f2.8, and full power, gives a footage of 199 feet. The Pentax only has a scale that ends at 22 meters / 75 feet and a marker for "here be dragons". I find working on the Metz in manual mode to be much easier than on the Pentax as long as I don't need to set rear curtain sync. The use of manual zoom is a wash because I find the dual push of the buttons on the Metz to be as troublesome as using the dial on the Pentax.

Both flashes have an auto off, but the Metz gives you control over it. You can even set the Metz so that the flash will stay on all the time. The Pentax flash's auto off has no user control. It auto shuts down every three minutes of inactivity for every mode except wireless slave. In wireless slave, the auto off is set to one hour inactivity. When set to wireless slave, the Pentax flash deactivates the hot shoe. Only in Wireless master or controller is the hot shoe active, but again in these modes, auto off is set to 3 minutes of inactivity.

Both flashes have the pin that drops down into the camera's hot shoe to secure the flash in place. The Metz has a traditional securing ring that, as it screws down, drops the pin into place. The securing ring has to be unscrewed all the way to clear the pin and allow the flash to be removed from the camera. The Pentax has a faster half turn lever that secures the flash and drops the pin. It too must be moved completely to the left for the pin to clear the camera.

The Metz has a couple of other features that I find very user friendly and sorely missed on the Pentax. If any of the three setting buttons are pushed on the Metz, the LCD will automatically light up. The flash also remembers the way it was set before it was turned off.

The 360FGZ has a separate light button that must be used to light up the LCD and on power off, the 360FGZ loses all settings. On start up, the flash defaults to P-TTL mode. This is also true with the flash auto off when the flash is off the camera. When on the camera and flash goes into sleep mode, it does thankfully keep its settings.

Thank you
Russell

Last edited by Russell-Evans; 09-10-2010 at 08:29 PM.
07-21-2009, 01:00 PM   #11
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Wow, thanks for all the replies everyone. Thanks to Russel for the very helpful response... especially the pic of the two side by side. I was looking all over the internet for a comparision, but couldn't find it. Thanks so much.

A quick newbie quesiton....

I was learning towards the Metz 48 because it just seemed much more powerful, but I was bummed that it didn't have an auto feautre.

But I had thought it did. It says that it has an autozoom feature. I guess this is different than an auto feature?

I am wanting a flexible flash that I can use very easily.
07-21-2009, 02:07 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by swhang Quote
I was learning towards the Metz 48 because it just seemed much more powerful, but I was bummed that it didn't have an auto feautre.

But I had thought it did. It says that it has an autozoom feature. I guess this is different than an auto feature?

Auto mode simply means the flash has its own sensor and can measure the light reflected back to it from the scene independent of the camera. Auto mode is also not auto, you have to set up auto mode and tell it what you are expecting it to do. Amazingly to me, the camera cannot communicate to the Pentax AF 360FGZ the ISO and aperture settings for the flash to use. The only reason a lot of people want this feature is because they feel the P-TTL of the camera isn't as reliable.

I personally don't think auto mode is any better than manual mode on a flash, opinions will differ however.

Thank you
Russell

Last edited by Russell-Evans; 07-21-2009 at 06:53 PM.
07-21-2009, 04:23 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by swhang Quote
I was learning towards the Metz 48 because it just seemed much more powerful, but I was bummed that it didn't have an auto feautre.

But I had thought it did. It says that it has an autozoom feature. I guess this is different than an auto feature?

I am wanting a flexible flash that I can use very easily.
As Russell-Evans stated, the flash's "auto" mode means that it has it own light sensor to measure the reflected light and squelch the light output when there has been enough light. You just need to match the ISO and the aperture settings of the camera body and those on the flash.

Some flashes (Metz 48, Metz 58, Pentax AF200T, Pentax AF280T) can communicate the ISO and the aperture settings with the camera body. Unfortunately, the current Pentax 540 and Pentax 360 can't do so, except in P-TTL mode.

Let me explain as why I'm adamant about a flash having "auto" mode:

- I (and many other folks) don't have much luck with Pentax P-TTL mode. It is too inconsistent. It's up to the point that I don't use P-TTL unless when I absolutely have to (e.g. rear-curtain sync, high speed).

- Some people can react (blink) to the pre-flash strobe of P-TTL. As the result, their eyes close during the main strobe (actual exposure). When taking photos of a group, I don't want to take this risk. I want only one strobe.

- Pentax DSLRs, at least the current batch, does not work in P-TTL if the lens in use is not controlled by the camera body. In other words, with lenses older than PKA (e.g. PK or M42 lens, or when bellows being used), P-TTL setting does not work. If you use P-TTL setting, the flash will fire one strobe at full power. Unfortunately, I'm still using many PK and M42 lenses.

- P-TTL (or Nikon/Canon/Sony/Olympus equivalences) requires "dedication," i.e. the flash and the camera body have to communicate. I carry a Canon G5 and sometimes a Nikon F2 (film) as backups. I can't use my Pentax 540 flash in P-TTL mode with Canon and Nikon cameras, but Auto mode works great. If the Pentax 540 did not have Auto mode, I'd have to bring along a Canon flash and/or a Nikon flash. I have an expensive Minolta 5400HS flash now has become next to useless because I can't use it for anything else, except for full power manual. Heck, I don't want to use even Pentax AF500FTZ flash because it does not have auto mode, only TTL (K10D does not have this) and manual. But my Pentax AF280T works great with any camera thanks to its auto mode.

Why I not use manual mode? I know how to use guide number/ISO setting/aperture setting to control the flash. But it is clumsy and thus is not appropriate for fast shooting. And while there are many choices out there, why?
07-21-2009, 08:55 PM   #14
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Thanks so much everyone! I have decided to go with the Metz 48. I was leaning towards the Pentax, but after the overwhelming response in favor of the Metz, I have decided to follow suit.

This forum is awesome!
07-21-2009, 11:54 PM   #15
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Pentax AF 360 vs. Metz 48 AF-1 Flash

What an excellent discussion. I am just now returning to Pentax (most recently had the *istD) after time in the Canon system (5d). The current deal on the k20d drew me in. I had always used an older ttl flash (Vivitar 3700) with good results on the *istD, and didn't realize until after ordering the new body that the more recent Pentax bodies fail to have the internal ttl sensor. This is a major disappointment for the exact reasons SOldBear indicates. I really like using the SMC-m lenses (especially the 50 f1.4) although I have nothing against the newer designs (Pentax was just plain wrong to drop the FA 35 f2).

The key points are this: 1) p-ttl is far from foolproof - and the eyes blinking problem is a very common fault (yes, it is a major fault to design a system known to cause unnatural facial expressions). 2) Pentax has essentially crippled the legacy lens system by dropping real (original) ttl metering.

I was weighing the decision between these two flashes; both are very good. (I have the Metz 58 in the Canon system - and it is superb although overly complex in its menu settings.) Obviously, though, the only realistic option between these two is the Pentax if you intend to use your non-A SMC lenses; auto-thyristor is a pretty essential, highly dependable tool that the Metz 48 lacks.

At this time, I will likely just continue to use the 3700 at its auto settings, or my handy Vivitar 285 HV. Of course, I'm pretty much left out in the cold for daylight fill flash until I get an hss torch. Multi-flash set-ups in auto flash are also now more difficult compared to real ttl.
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