Studio Strobes or Small Flashes?

brofkand · 01-26-2010, 09:20 PM

I realize that small flashes are all the rage nowadays. But they're expensive, unless you get undedicated fully manual models.

For starting up a studio (or just needing somewhat portable lighting for on-location jobs), would you recommend studio strobes, hot lights, or small flashes?

You can get a great deal of bang for the buck with Alien Bees or hot lights, but they're big and bulky and need to be plugged in to mains unless you want an even bigger and bulkier sealed lead-acid battery pack to carry around. Flashes are small, light, and portable, but are very expensive (relative to Alien Bees and hot lights, at least).

What do you recommend for starting up a lighting kit?

ramair455 · 01-26-2010, 10:25 PM

get some real studio lights like Alien Bees, you won't be sorry.

brofkand · 01-28-2010, 08:18 AM

That's definitely where I'm leaning. Small strobes are cool, but they can't match Alien Bees or Speed-O-Trons.

Now, can you (or anyone) recommend a good resource for comparing strobes, especially Ws ratings? I don't know much about W/s ratings or guide numbers.

Thanks!

kenyee · 01-28-2010, 09:04 AM

once you start using modifiers like doubly diffused softboxes, etc. speedlights aren't that useful...

Decide on a budget, then choose the modifiers you want (e.g., Elinchrom currently has the best modifiers in the DO and El-Octa), then choose the strobes that work with them.
WS ratings don't matter much indoors...even lowly 320WS B800's have plenty of power...

D W · 01-28-2010, 09:05 AM

Originally posted by brofkand

That's definitely where I'm leaning. Small strobes are cool, but they can't match Alien Bees or Speed-O-Trons.

Now, can you (or anyone) recommend a good resource for comparing strobes, especially Ws ratings? I don't know much about W/s ratings or guide numbers.

Thanks!

Becareful with only comparing numbers claimed by the manufacturer.

Guide number is the amount of light actually hitting the subject. You don't see strobe manufacturer using this due to the different light modifier and reflectors available. Also it doesn't compare well with inflated speedlight GN's which give off an inferior quality of light out of the box.

Watt/sec is the power rating of the electrical energy of the unit BEFORE IT IS CONVERTED TO LIGHT. The problem with this is there are many ways to measure it and it doesn't account for the resistance of the circuit and the efficiency of the flashtube.

brofkand · 01-28-2010, 09:21 AM

I suppose I should come up with a budget, then I can get some recommendations.

Thanks! What is it with the current infatuation with small strobes? I don't see the attraction to be honest...inferior light, and to be honest I think it looks unprofessional to have SB-600s taped to door hinges while commanding $5000 for a shoot...I guess that's just me.

ramair455 · 01-28-2010, 08:23 PM

Originally posted by brofkand

Thanks! What is it with the current infatuation with small strobes? I don't see the attraction to be honest...inferior light, and to be honest I think it looks unprofessional to have SB-600s taped to door hinges while commanding $5000 for a shoot...I guess that's just me.

No, its not just you.

Kazy · 01-30-2010, 02:53 PM

Originally posted by brofkand

I suppose I should come up with a budget, then I can get some recommendations.

Thanks! What is it with the current infatuation with small strobes? I don't see the attraction to be honest...inferior light, and to be honest I think it looks unprofessional to have SB-600s taped to door hinges while commanding $5000 for a shoot...I guess that's just me.

The thing is though, strobes are much smaller and more portable and easier to carry around. People love them because they are small enough to always be with you and require little setup time.

I'm only a hobbyist but I always carry two flashes with me in my camera bag just in case. Can you say that with you say that with studio lights?

khardur · 01-30-2010, 04:02 PM

Originally posted by brofkand

I suppose I should come up with a budget, then I can get some recommendations.

Thanks! What is it with the current infatuation with small strobes? I don't see the attraction to be honest...inferior light, and to be honest I think it looks unprofessional to have SB-600s taped to door hinges while commanding $5000 for a shoot...I guess that's just me.

Quite honestly that sounds like the "it's not FF, it's no good" or "you're not shooting with Canon or Nikon, you're not a professional" arguments.
If someone has the talent that commands $5000 for a shoot, should they get less for using less expensive equipment? That's just good business right there on their part.

Now on to the original question: You're saying portable flashes are as much or more expensive as the studio strobes. Sure, $350+ for an AF540GZ, that's as expensive as the B1600.

But unless you need all that power, what's the difference? Well, for starters, almost 3 pounds difference. I imagine you'll need a heavier duty/more expensive stand to hold up the B1600.

On pricing, you're comparing apples and oranges. You said initially "unless you buy an undedicated, fully manual flash" - Well isn't that what the Alienbee is, essentially? (just a lot more power) So for $50-$70 you can get a used Vivitar all manual flash. So for that same $360 you could get 5 manual flashes. If you're not lighting up a huge studio or trying to overpower the sun all the time, you just opened up a lot more options to light your shots than you do with that one Alienbee.

Not that I'm saying the Alienbees aren't good, or aren't useful, actually they are very good and I would love to have some. But if someone does get $5k for a shoot and uses small flashes taped to doors and gets the shot, isn't that all that matters?

ltdstar · 01-31-2010, 05:56 PM

What do you want to do with the flashes? I think if you can, get both. Strobes are for studios work and locations (if want need the power and willing the carry battery packs) and flashes are for fast pace events such as weddings and don't have time to set up strobes. So it depends on the condition you want to use the light for.

Wheatfield · 01-31-2010, 06:45 PM

Advantage of shoe mount flash units: They are small.
Disadvantage: They eat batteries, and every picture contains a surprise.

Advantage of studio strobes: WYSIWYG, they don't eat batteries, you have access to all sorts of light modifiers beyond umbrellas.
Disadvantage: I can't think of any, actually.

ramair455 · 01-31-2010, 10:33 PM

Originally posted by ramair455

get some real studio lights like Alien Bees, you won't be sorry.

Yeah, get some real studio lights. Like real studio photographers....

PentaxPoke · 01-31-2010, 11:01 PM

Another vote here for Alien Bees!

Kazy · 02-01-2010, 04:45 AM

Fixed this list up a bit:

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Advantage of shoe mount flash units: They are small. Light, can take them anywhere. Easy to move until you get what you want. Easily adjustable, don't need big external power source and are self-contained.
Disadvantage: They eat batteries, and every picture contains a surprise. [ed. note-- really? I've never noticed]

Advantage of studio strobes: WYSIWYG, they don't eat batteries, you have access to all sorts of light modifiers beyond umbrellas.
Disadvantage: Heavy, require heavier duty lightstands, need external power source, can't move around as easily, take longer time to set up

The thing is, both have their uses. But the best thing I've read concerning it is "The best piece of equipment is the one you have with you."

GeneV · 02-01-2010, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by Kazy

Fixed this list up a bit:

The thing is, both have their uses. But the best thing I've read concerning it is "The best piece of equipment is the one you have with you."

If you are shooting in a location where you can 1)plug in a powerful light and 2) use only one light, then the Alien Bee wins hands down.

However, if you need to spread the light around, and/or you can't be bothered with a few hundred feet of extension cords, then the smaller strobes are the ticket. I have a case full of Vivtar 283s which cost about $100 total. A box of AA batteries is also next to nothing. I made a bracket to double them up on stands, if needed. I can spread these around the dance camps I shoot with wireless triggers and light up an entire gym fairly evenly without worrying about where the outlets are. I' not sure I can do that with a single studio light.

01-26-2010, 09:20 PM	#1
brofkand Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 836	Studio Strobes or Small Flashes? I realize that small flashes are all the rage nowadays. But they're expensive, unless you get undedicated fully manual models. For starting up a studio (or just needing somewhat portable lighting for on-location jobs), would you recommend studio strobes, hot lights, or small flashes? You can get a great deal of bang for the buck with Alien Bees or hot lights, but they're big and bulky and need to be plugged in to mains unless you want an even bigger and bulkier sealed lead-acid battery pack to carry around. Flashes are small, light, and portable, but are very expensive (relative to Alien Bees and hot lights, at least). What do you recommend for starting up a lighting kit?

01-28-2010, 09:05 AM	#5
D W Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Hogtown, ON, Canada Posts: 329	IT IS MORE THAN NUMBERS Originally posted by brofkand That's definitely where I'm leaning. Small strobes are cool, but they can't match Alien Bees or Speed-O-Trons. Now, can you (or anyone) recommend a good resource for comparing strobes, especially Ws ratings? I don't know much about W/s ratings or guide numbers. Thanks! Becareful with only comparing numbers claimed by the manufacturer. Guide number is the amount of light actually hitting the subject. You don't see strobe manufacturer using this due to the different light modifier and reflectors available. Also it doesn't compare well with inflated speedlight GN's which give off an inferior quality of light out of the box. Watt/sec is the power rating of the electrical energy of the unit BEFORE IT IS CONVERTED TO LIGHT. The problem with this is there are many ways to measure it and it doesn't account for the resistance of the circuit and the efficiency of the flashtube.

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01-26-2010, 10:25 PM	#2
ramair455 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Okc Photos: Gallery Posts: 284	get some real studio lights like Alien Bees, you won't be sorry.

01-28-2010, 08:18 AM	#3
brofkand Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 836 Original Poster	That's definitely where I'm leaning. Small strobes are cool, but they can't match Alien Bees or Speed-O-Trons. Now, can you (or anyone) recommend a good resource for comparing strobes, especially Ws ratings? I don't know much about W/s ratings or guide numbers. Thanks!

01-28-2010, 09:04 AM	#4
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	once you start using modifiers like doubly diffused softboxes, etc. speedlights aren't that useful... Decide on a budget, then choose the modifiers you want (e.g., Elinchrom currently has the best modifiers in the DO and El-Octa), then choose the strobes that work with them. WS ratings don't matter much indoors...even lowly 320WS B800's have plenty of power...

01-28-2010, 09:21 AM	#6
brofkand Pentaxian Join Date: May 2009 Location: North Carolina Posts: 836 Original Poster	I suppose I should come up with a budget, then I can get some recommendations. Thanks! What is it with the current infatuation with small strobes? I don't see the attraction to be honest...inferior light, and to be honest I think it looks unprofessional to have SB-600s taped to door hinges while commanding $5000 for a shoot...I guess that's just me.

01-28-2010, 08:23 PM	#7
ramair455 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Okc Photos: Gallery Posts: 284	Originally posted by brofkand Thanks! What is it with the current infatuation with small strobes? I don't see the attraction to be honest...inferior light, and to be honest I think it looks unprofessional to have SB-600s taped to door hinges while commanding $5000 for a shoot...I guess that's just me. No, its not just you.

01-30-2010, 02:53 PM	#8
Kazy Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 38	Originally posted by brofkand I suppose I should come up with a budget, then I can get some recommendations. Thanks! What is it with the current infatuation with small strobes? I don't see the attraction to be honest...inferior light, and to be honest I think it looks unprofessional to have SB-600s taped to door hinges while commanding $5000 for a shoot...I guess that's just me. The thing is though, strobes are much smaller and more portable and easier to carry around. People love them because they are small enough to always be with you and require little setup time. I'm only a hobbyist but I always carry two flashes with me in my camera bag just in case. Can you say that with you say that with studio lights?

01-30-2010, 04:02 PM	#9
khardur Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Massachusetts Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,560	Originally posted by brofkand I suppose I should come up with a budget, then I can get some recommendations. Thanks! What is it with the current infatuation with small strobes? I don't see the attraction to be honest...inferior light, and to be honest I think it looks unprofessional to have SB-600s taped to door hinges while commanding $5000 for a shoot...I guess that's just me. Quite honestly that sounds like the "it's not FF, it's no good" or "you're not shooting with Canon or Nikon, you're not a professional" arguments. If someone has the talent that commands $5000 for a shoot, should they get less for using less expensive equipment? That's just good business right there on their part. Now on to the original question: You're saying portable flashes are as much or more expensive as the studio strobes. Sure, $350+ for an AF540GZ, that's as expensive as the B1600. But unless you need all that power, what's the difference? Well, for starters, almost 3 pounds difference. I imagine you'll need a heavier duty/more expensive stand to hold up the B1600. On pricing, you're comparing apples and oranges. You said initially "unless you buy an undedicated, fully manual flash" - Well isn't that what the Alienbee is, essentially? (just a lot more power) So for $50-$70 you can get a used Vivitar all manual flash. So for that same $360 you could get 5 manual flashes. If you're not lighting up a huge studio or trying to overpower the sun all the time, you just opened up a lot more options to light your shots than you do with that one Alienbee. Not that I'm saying the Alienbees aren't good, or aren't useful, actually they are very good and I would love to have some. But if someone does get $5k for a shoot and uses small flashes taped to doors and gets the shot, isn't that all that matters?

01-31-2010, 05:56 PM	#10
ltdstar Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: AZ Posts: 285	What do you want to do with the flashes? I think if you can, get both. Strobes are for studios work and locations (if want need the power and willing the carry battery packs) and flashes are for fast pace events such as weddings and don't have time to set up strobes. So it depends on the condition you want to use the light for.

01-31-2010, 06:45 PM	#11
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Advantage of shoe mount flash units: They are small. Disadvantage: They eat batteries, and every picture contains a surprise. Advantage of studio strobes: WYSIWYG, they don't eat batteries, you have access to all sorts of light modifiers beyond umbrellas. Disadvantage: I can't think of any, actually.

01-31-2010, 10:33 PM	#12
ramair455 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Okc Photos: Gallery Posts: 284	Originally posted by ramair455 get some real studio lights like Alien Bees, you won't be sorry. Yeah, get some real studio lights. Like real studio photographers....

01-31-2010, 11:01 PM	#13
PentaxPoke Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,411	Another vote here for Alien Bees!

02-01-2010, 04:45 AM	#14
Kazy Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 38	Fixed this list up a bit: Originally posted by Wheatfield Advantage of shoe mount flash units: They are small. Light, can take them anywhere. Easy to move until you get what you want. Easily adjustable, don't need big external power source and are self-contained. Disadvantage: They eat batteries, and every picture contains a surprise. [ed. note-- really? I've never noticed] Advantage of studio strobes: WYSIWYG, they don't eat batteries, you have access to all sorts of light modifiers beyond umbrellas. Disadvantage: Heavy, require heavier duty lightstands, need external power source, can't move around as easily, take longer time to set up The thing is, both have their uses. But the best thing I've read concerning it is "The best piece of equipment is the one you have with you."

02-01-2010, 07:52 AM	#15
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Originally posted by Kazy Fixed this list up a bit: The thing is, both have their uses. But the best thing I've read concerning it is "The best piece of equipment is the one you have with you." If you are shooting in a location where you can 1)plug in a powerful light and 2) use only one light, then the Alien Bee wins hands down. However, if you need to spread the light around, and/or you can't be bothered with a few hundred feet of extension cords, then the smaller strobes are the ticket. I have a case full of Vivtar 283s which cost about $100 total. A box of AA batteries is also next to nothing. I made a bracket to double them up on stands, if needed. I can spread these around the dance camps I shoot with wireless triggers and light up an entire gym fairly evenly without worrying about where the outlets are. I' not sure I can do that with a single studio light.