Radio triggers and flash sync speed

sash · 02-17-2010, 07:40 PM

So a friend from work is willing to sell me his Vivitar 285 (old, non HV version).
He also knows that I am interested in getting some budget radio triggers so he lent me his Phottix PT-16 set too... just to play around. I am pretty new to photography and absolute noob with flash photography.

I noticed that with max sync speed of 1/180 I get a black bar on the bottom of the frame. Bummer.. read a lot about how we can’t push the shutter past 1/180 and I’m very disappointed that I might be locked to measly 1/125 shutter speed .
Now as a kicker, I do not get rear curtain showing if I use my Pentax 360FGZ in the wireless mode without radio triggers triggering the flash. I can’t test it with my friends Phottix PT-16 as I can’t attach it to my flash. I think I need one of those hot-shoe type of connectors to connect it to the wireless flash, right?

Question; Am I having this issue with slow sync speed because of the radio triggers or because of the flash?

Does anyone with Cactus V4 and Vivitar 285 have any experience with this?

Oh, I am using K20D...

Thank you very much!

LeDave · 02-17-2010, 07:57 PM

I think it's because it's not sync'd properly. Your shutter is closing too fast causing light to cut off from the sensor before it reaches the bottom area. It's a user or camera/flash fault, not the receiver or trigger.

kenyee · 02-17-2010, 08:17 PM

replace the battery in the transmitter...

BBear · 02-18-2010, 08:38 AM

Originally posted by sash

Question; Am I having this issue with slow sync speed because of the radio triggers or because of the flash?

Does anyone with Cactus V4 and Vivitar 285 have any experience with this?

I have the same setup, actually a collection of (6) 285's and cactus, which I still have but I upgraded to Cybersyncs...

And the thing is, the cactus are very cheap, economically as well as lack of quality.

I dont think the problem is the flashes, because I can use the same flashes with the cybersync at 1/180.

One "trick" you can do with the cactus, is using 1/3 EVs and set the shutter to 1/160, so its a bit faster than 1/125. I never had problems with 1/160 with the cactus, but had the same issue with 1/180.

GeneV · 02-18-2010, 09:15 AM

I don't have that problem with the CTR 301p either controlling a case full of Vivitar 283s. I think that, among the inexpensive triggers, the 301 is the better choice. Of course, I'm sure Cybersincs would be even better, but not so inexpensive.

wlachan · 02-18-2010, 10:00 AM

Any radio slave sync will introduce certain delay because they needed to "talk" with each other. This delay, when added with the flash sync, the max sync speed will be decreased. Some radio slaves have shorter delay, some longer. For instance, the same Metz 40MZ-3i I have can do 1/160s with Microsync on the DS, but the same flash can do 1/180s with Skyport, which again delays the max sync speed of 40D from 1/250s to 1/200s.

sash · 02-18-2010, 10:30 AM

Originally posted by LeDave

I think it's because it's not sync'd properly. Your shutter is closing too fast causing light to cut off from the sensor before it reaches the bottom area. It's a user or camera/flash fault, not the receiver or trigger.

Yeah,.. As I wrote in my message; I know that camera did not sync properly with the flash, and I’m aware that rear curtain is covering the sensor so fast that that portion of the sensor does not get properly exposed with the flash. I am puzzled why my sync speed is lower with radio triggers compared to when I trigger 360FGZ optically.

Originally posted by kenyee

replace the battery in the transmitter...

Hmm,.. Might try that.

Originally posted by BBear

I have the same setup, actually a collection of (6) 285's and cactus, which I still have but I upgraded to Cybersyncs...

And the thing is, the cactus are very cheap, economically as well as lack of quality.

I dont think the problem is the flashes, because I can use the same flashes with the cybersync at 1/180.

One "trick" you can do with the cactus, is using 1/3 EVs and set the shutter to 1/160, so its a bit faster than 1/125. I never had problems with 1/160 with the cactus, but had the same issue with 1/180.

Great info! Thanks!.. Cybersync system looks very nice, but it is going to blow my budget!

Sorry, beginners question; how do I get my shutter to 1/160? My shutter goes in these steps: 1/125, 1/180, 1/250,... I don’t think I get 1/160. Are there some sttings I need to do to get that?

Originally posted by GeneV

I don't have that problem with the CTR 301p either controlling a case full of Vivitar 283s. I think that, among the inexpensive triggers, the 301 is the better choice. Of course, I'm sure Cybersincs would be even better, but not so inexpensive.

Thanks for the suggestion. I am actually now considering CTR 301p system as the receivers have that hot shoe adapter.. so I do not need to mess about with cables. Cool!

Originally posted by wlachan

Any radio slave sync will introduce certain delay because they needed to "talk" with each other. This delay, when added with the flash sync, the max sync speed will be decreased. Some radio slaves have shorter delay, some longer. For instance, the same Metz 40MZ-3i I have can do 1/160s with Microsync on the DS, but the same flash can do 1/180s with Skyport, which again delays the max sync speed of 40D from 1/250s to 1/200s.

That’s what I was thinking too,.. feel bad for some Canon/Nikon guys who have to step down to 1/160 or less from possible 1/320 sync speeds they could get with Pocket Wizards.

**Frank_DK** · 02-19-2010, 05:43 AM

Jeg har cactus ver.4 og nikon sb 600 og jeg har ingen problemer med 1/180

BBear · 02-19-2010, 08:04 AM

Originally posted by sash

Sorry, beginners question; how do I get my shutter to 1/160? My shutter goes in these steps: 1/125, 1/180, 1/250,... I don’t think I get 1/160. Are there some sttings I need to do to get that?

You need to go inside the custom menu, and enable 1/3EV steps instead of 1/2EV steps...

sash · 02-19-2010, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by BBear

You need to go inside the custom menu, and enable 1/3EV steps instead of 1/2EV steps...

Thank you very much!

Wheatfield · 02-19-2010, 08:37 PM

FWIW, I use Pocket Wizards, and have no issues with flash sync. I suspect that this might be one of those things that you have to throw a pile of money at to solve.

GeneV · 02-20-2010, 03:00 AM

Let me also add that, while I find the 301s completely acceptable for my use, I am not saying they are perfect. As a result of this thread, I've gone back and looked at the last time I used them extensively (several hundred flashes). This is partly the result of decades of film bodies, I often reflexively set to 1/125 or lower when I sync a manual flash. However, there were quite a few shots at 1/180 as well.

There are a few misses at all speeds. I can't honestly say whether there are more misses due to higher speeds, because the total number of misses due to sync is very low--less than 10 out of around 400 flashes. This was running around a large gym, photographing more than a hundred people with all sorts of obstacles and sources of interference for the transmitters and often exceeding the recommended distance. I still got around 98% success. Perhaps with Pocket Wizards or Cybersyncs, it would have been 100%, so I'm not saying you don't get more when you pay more.

02-17-2010, 07:40 PM	#1
sash Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 26	Radio triggers and flash sync speed So a friend from work is willing to sell me his Vivitar 285 (old, non HV version). He also knows that I am interested in getting some budget radio triggers so he lent me his Phottix PT-16 set too... just to play around. I am pretty new to photography and absolute noob with flash photography. I noticed that with max sync speed of 1/180 I get a black bar on the bottom of the frame. Bummer.. read a lot about how we can’t push the shutter past 1/180 and I’m very disappointed that I might be locked to measly 1/125 shutter speed . Now as a kicker, I do not get rear curtain showing if I use my Pentax 360FGZ in the wireless mode without radio triggers triggering the flash. I can’t test it with my friends Phottix PT-16 as I can’t attach it to my flash. I think I need one of those hot-shoe type of connectors to connect it to the wireless flash, right? Question; Am I having this issue with slow sync speed because of the radio triggers or because of the flash? Does anyone with Cactus V4 and Vivitar 285 have any experience with this? Oh, I am using K20D... Thank you very much!

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02-17-2010, 07:57 PM	#2
LeDave Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minneapolis - St. Paul Photos: Gallery Posts: 3,067	I think it's because it's not sync'd properly. Your shutter is closing too fast causing light to cut off from the sensor before it reaches the bottom area. It's a user or camera/flash fault, not the receiver or trigger.

02-17-2010, 08:17 PM	#3
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	replace the battery in the transmitter...

02-18-2010, 08:38 AM	#4
BBear Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: CT / NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 822	Originally posted by sash Question; Am I having this issue with slow sync speed because of the radio triggers or because of the flash? Does anyone with Cactus V4 and Vivitar 285 have any experience with this? I have the same setup, actually a collection of (6) 285's and cactus, which I still have but I upgraded to Cybersyncs... And the thing is, the cactus are very cheap, economically as well as lack of quality. I dont think the problem is the flashes, because I can use the same flashes with the cybersync at 1/180. One "trick" you can do with the cactus, is using 1/3 EVs and set the shutter to 1/160, so its a bit faster than 1/125. I never had problems with 1/160 with the cactus, but had the same issue with 1/180.

02-18-2010, 09:15 AM	#5
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	I don't have that problem with the CTR 301p either controlling a case full of Vivitar 283s. I think that, among the inexpensive triggers, the 301 is the better choice. Of course, I'm sure Cybersincs would be even better, but not so inexpensive.

02-18-2010, 10:00 AM	#6
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Any radio slave sync will introduce certain delay because they needed to "talk" with each other. This delay, when added with the flash sync, the max sync speed will be decreased. Some radio slaves have shorter delay, some longer. For instance, the same Metz 40MZ-3i I have can do 1/160s with Microsync on the DS, but the same flash can do 1/180s with Skyport, which again delays the max sync speed of 40D from 1/250s to 1/200s.

02-18-2010, 10:30 AM	#7
sash Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 26 Original Poster	Originally posted by LeDave I think it's because it's not sync'd properly. Your shutter is closing too fast causing light to cut off from the sensor before it reaches the bottom area. It's a user or camera/flash fault, not the receiver or trigger. Yeah,.. As I wrote in my message; I know that camera did not sync properly with the flash, and I’m aware that rear curtain is covering the sensor so fast that that portion of the sensor does not get properly exposed with the flash. I am puzzled why my sync speed is lower with radio triggers compared to when I trigger 360FGZ optically. Originally posted by kenyee replace the battery in the transmitter... Hmm,.. Might try that. Originally posted by BBear I have the same setup, actually a collection of (6) 285's and cactus, which I still have but I upgraded to Cybersyncs... And the thing is, the cactus are very cheap, economically as well as lack of quality. I dont think the problem is the flashes, because I can use the same flashes with the cybersync at 1/180. One "trick" you can do with the cactus, is using 1/3 EVs and set the shutter to 1/160, so its a bit faster than 1/125. I never had problems with 1/160 with the cactus, but had the same issue with 1/180. Great info! Thanks!.. Cybersync system looks very nice, but it is going to blow my budget! Sorry, beginners question; how do I get my shutter to 1/160? My shutter goes in these steps: 1/125, 1/180, 1/250,... I don’t think I get 1/160. Are there some sttings I need to do to get that? Originally posted by GeneV I don't have that problem with the CTR 301p either controlling a case full of Vivitar 283s. I think that, among the inexpensive triggers, the 301 is the better choice. Of course, I'm sure Cybersincs would be even better, but not so inexpensive. Thanks for the suggestion. I am actually now considering CTR 301p system as the receivers have that hot shoe adapter.. so I do not need to mess about with cables. Cool! Originally posted by wlachan Any radio slave sync will introduce certain delay because they needed to "talk" with each other. This delay, when added with the flash sync, the max sync speed will be decreased. Some radio slaves have shorter delay, some longer. For instance, the same Metz 40MZ-3i I have can do 1/160s with Microsync on the DS, but the same flash can do 1/180s with Skyport, which again delays the max sync speed of 40D from 1/250s to 1/200s. That’s what I was thinking too,.. feel bad for some Canon/Nikon guys who have to step down to 1/160 or less from possible 1/320 sync speeds they could get with Pocket Wizards.

02-19-2010, 05:43 AM	#8
Frank_DK Site Supporter Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Naestved Denmark Photos: Gallery Posts: 19	Jeg har cactus ver.4 og nikon sb 600 og jeg har ingen problemer med 1/180

02-19-2010, 08:04 AM	#9
BBear Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: CT / NY Photos: Gallery Posts: 822	Originally posted by sash Sorry, beginners question; how do I get my shutter to 1/160? My shutter goes in these steps: 1/125, 1/180, 1/250,... I don’t think I get 1/160. Are there some sttings I need to do to get that? You need to go inside the custom menu, and enable 1/3EV steps instead of 1/2EV steps...

02-19-2010, 01:55 PM	#10
sash Junior Member Join Date: May 2009 Location: Toronto Posts: 26 Original Poster	Originally posted by BBear You need to go inside the custom menu, and enable 1/3EV steps instead of 1/2EV steps... Thank you very much!

02-19-2010, 08:37 PM	#11
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	FWIW, I use Pocket Wizards, and have no issues with flash sync. I suspect that this might be one of those things that you have to throw a pile of money at to solve.

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02-20-2010, 03:00 AM	#12
GeneV Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Albuquerque NM Photos: Albums Posts: 9,830	Let me also add that, while I find the 301s completely acceptable for my use, I am not saying they are perfect. As a result of this thread, I've gone back and looked at the last time I used them extensively (several hundred flashes). This is partly the result of decades of film bodies, I often reflexively set to 1/125 or lower when I sync a manual flash. However, there were quite a few shots at 1/180 as well. There are a few misses at all speeds. I can't honestly say whether there are more misses due to higher speeds, because the total number of misses due to sync is very low--less than 10 out of around 400 flashes. This was running around a large gym, photographing more than a hundred people with all sorts of obstacles and sources of interference for the transmitters and often exceeding the recommended distance. I still got around 98% success. Perhaps with Pocket Wizards or Cybersyncs, it would have been 100%, so I'm not saying you don't get more when you pay more.