Pentax AF540FGZ Actual Performance??

stewart_photo · 07-14-2007, 02:07 PM

Originally posted by Entropy

Sunpak 30DX - Good chance it may destroy your camera. Older flashes (Thyristor or not) have very high trigger voltages. Modern DSLRs need flashes with much lower trigger voltages (Canons are limited to 6V for example), older flashes will destroy them. I've heard the Pentax K10D is far more tolerant of high trigger voltages than other DSLRs, but I would not risk it.

Pentax Germany has said that Pentax DSLR's, such as the istD and istDS, can safely handle a maximum (middle positive) voltage of 30 volts. That specification was also recently reaffirmed by Wim van Kleef, Pentax Digital Camera Support Team, Pentax USA. Pentax Germany also said the K10D, which shares similar circuitry, was built to even higher voltage tolerances, but could not say how high since that spec has not been officially released yet.

Very early versions of the Sunpak Auto 30DX had a trigger voltage of 10.4v, with later production models using between 4.6v to 7.5v. As such, it should be perfectly safe to use the Sunpak with the K10D. Since he is familar with using it manually, it should work just fine with the K10D as well. The Canon Speedlite 420 EX has a trigger voltage between 3.4v and 5.6v (with some users reporting voltages as high as 7.4v). The Canon should be safe to use with the K10D also, but may not work (as stated in my previous related message).

stewart

GridUser · 07-16-2007, 06:16 AM

Thanx for all the help, folks. I think I'm going to hold off on using an external flash for a while. I'm a babe-in-the-woods as far as the jargon everybody's bantering about, so I need time to digest that and ask more questions. I hope its OK to ask a lot of dumb newbie-type questions in this thread and forum. If it isn't please tell me and let me know where I should go to "bug" you cmaera-savvy people.

I know the Sunpak says it is an auto-thyristor (whatever that means) but I never trusted it in auto mode (at least I don't remember doing so. I always had to adjust the exposure, I can't remember if it was up or down anymore, becaue it was overexposing shots. On a film camera, that gets expensive. The Canon flash has a lot of red lights and such on the front of it, so I assumed it was automatic in some sense of the word (though I don't know TTL from P-TTL from E-TTL, I must admit). Even it tends to overexpose straight-on shots on my Pro-1, so I tended to fiddle with the exposure on that camera, as well. I usually changed the exposure by -1.5 to -2 (I think - or maybe it was +1.5 to +2 - I don't remember). Why can't they make truly automatic cameras and flashes that truly work together? These electronic doodads are so sophisticated nowadays, yet the "simplest" things seem to be out-of-reach.

stewart_photo · 07-16-2007, 07:12 AM

Pentaxforums.com is perfect for all types of questions. However, to ensure the maximum number of people see those questions, you may want to start a new thread for each topic. Asking a question here in this particular thread, for example, will mainly be seen only by those interested in the Pentax AF540FGZ (the topic of this thread). But, starting a thread with a title that says "Does SunpakAuto 30DX flash work with K10D?" will be noticed by more people with both a Sunpak flash and a K10D, hence noticed by more with the experience to better answer that question.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

stewart

GridUser · 07-17-2007, 05:51 AM

Thanx for the tip. I have been on forums before and get the feeling that people don't like it when new threads are constantly started when people haven't bothered to find and read other threads that might answer the question. I guess I'm being paranoid.

Deni · 07-17-2007, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by GridUser

I have been on forums before and get the feeling that people don't like it when new threads are constantly started

That's because they're selfish

.

stewart_photo · 07-17-2007, 07:24 AM

Originally posted by GridUser

I have been on forums before and get the feeling that people don't like it when new threads are constantly started when people haven't bothered to find and read other threads that might answer the question.

Of course, it's obviously a good idea to put related messages into an existing thread. But, since the Sunpak & Canon flash units are related to this thread only in that they are flash units, questions about them were unique enough to probably warrant a new thread.

As far as other people are concerned, when they own this forum, they can dictate how it is used. Until then, as long as you're following the forum rules, you have my express permission, for what very little that is worth here, to tell them to kiss off. They have no more right to tell anybody how to use this forum than you or I do. The owners and moderators operated this forum, not anyone else.

And when those people start ranting about how they won't help anybody who does this or that, don't worry about it. Someone else, like myself, will be right along to offer that help - which really upsets those petty forum dictators.

stewart

Peter Zack · 07-17-2007, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by stewart_photo

Pentaxforums.com is perfect for all types of questions. However, to ensure the maximum number of people see those questions, you may want to start a new thread for each topic. Asking a question here in this particular thread, for example, will mainly be seen only by those interested in the Pentax AF540FGZ (the topic of this thread). But, starting a thread with a title that says "Does SunpakAuto 30DX flash work with K10D?" will be noticed by more people with both a Sunpak flash and a K10D, hence noticed by more with the experience to better answer that question.

Anyway, welcome to the forum.

stewart

Totally agreed and also don't forget to go to the home page and select the correct sub-forum for the topic you want to post the message to. Many newer users here just post all questions in: "General Pentax Photography" which is often not the correct sub-forum. Creating a good title will also ensue that others can search for the answers they need (which may have been previously answered, like 'Does this M42 lens fit my K100D?') instead of re-posting the same topic over and over again.

FotoPete · 07-17-2007, 11:00 AM

Yup I currently use a Sunpak autozoon 333 thyristor and it works great. the recycle times are great as is the ability to tilt/swivel. I'm currently thinking about getting a K100D soon so I bought a Vivitar Series 1 600N. Yea its nikon but the M/P/O version was really beat up and I don't really care for TTL because all my lenses are manual anyways. But if you are skeptical about the choice of a fully P-TTL flash, save yourself a couple hundred and stick with your Sunpak or go for a second hand device. One you are comfortable with it, then decide if you need the extra automated functions.

dopeytree · 07-29-2007, 09:08 AM

you guys dont have your camera's set to -2ev in the flash settings do you or anything silly? i seem to remember this being a default or maybe -1ev for the pop up flash?

Entropy · 07-29-2007, 04:04 PM

Defaults are no exposure compensation. If your camera is set otherwise, you're probably the one that changed it and forgot.

In my case, even with it cranked to +1 at all times, the 540 significantly underexposes. What is especially annoying:
1) Since it only occurs with the 540, it would make the most sense to dial in the compensation on the flash. But the 540 has a +1 limit to its onboard exposure compensation.
2) Even if the 540 didn't have that stupid +1 limit, it forgets its settings every time you turn it off.

The Vivitar 285HV I ordered as part of a Strobist kit from MPEX came in Friday. I haven't had too much time to play with it, but so far in most situations it blows away the 540 at approximately 1/4 the price (for the flash itself) and 1/2-2/3 the price (for a full kit including flash, batteries, battery charger, light stand, reflector umbrella, umbrella holder, and sync cables.)

switters · 07-30-2007, 08:43 AM

Entropy,

I think we've been going back and forth about the AF540 over on the Flickr: Strobist group.

I just came across your post here and must say I was relieved to see you mention that the AF540 performs very well when bounced in P-TTL mode. There is rarely, if ever a time I use direct on-camera flash. When it's on camera I'm always bouncing it off of a Flip-It panel, a wall, or both.

In fact, the only reason I want/need a P-TTL flash is because when I shoot portraits of young children (which is about 50% of what I do with my camera right now) I find TTL operation to be very convenient (on my Canon 20D at least). I shoot in manual and often find myself changing the setting as necessary. Using auto mode with the flash means another setting I'd have to take the time to change, which slows me down. I'm really hoping P-TTL on the 540 works when bounced as you suggest.

It occurs to me, though, that I have an option with the K10D that I didn't have with the Canon 20D (which is one of the many reasons I'm switching over!). I could put it in the mode where I choose the aperture & shutter speed and the camera adjusts the ISO as necessary. If I did this, I could use the AF540 in "auto" mode without having to change the aperture setting on the flash. Two questions though: 1) does "auto" mode work with high-speed sync?, and 2) does "auto" mode work with bounced flash on the AF540?

In terms of Strobist off-camera use, I also have a used SB-26 that I picked up for $90. I preferred it to the Viv 285 because it has a lower minimum power output (1/64 vs. 1/16). I intend to use a hotshoe-to-PC cable to connect my K10D to the SB-26, and let the SB-26 fire the AF540 in "slave" mode. Sure, it's an expensive flash to use as a slave in this set-up (especially since I could get another SB-26 used or a 285HV)... but I need it for the on-camera P-TTL stuff so it makes sense.

I'm pretty excited because on Thursday I receive my K10D & AF540 + several lenses to try out (DA 21, DA 40, DA 70, 35/2, 50/1.4). I'm only going to keep 2, maybe 3 max, but none of the local stores carry them so I figured I'd just return the ones (to B&H) I don't want to keep.

Entropy · 07-30-2007, 04:00 PM

I wouldn't say "very well", but at least my test shots yesterday were acceptable even with no FEC or EC. I have no idea why, previously even when bounced it would wind up not even touching the right half of the histogram, and often not even touching the right 3/4. Now it goes slightly into the right half, but more importantly it was identical to both the 540 and the 285HV in auto mode.

07-29-2007, 09:08 AM	#24
dopeytree Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Somerset, UK Photos: Gallery Posts: 619	flash settings you guys dont have your camera's set to -2ev in the flash settings do you or anything silly? i seem to remember this being a default or maybe -1ev for the pop up flash?

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07-14-2007, 02:07 PM	#16
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864 Original Poster	Originally posted by Entropy Sunpak 30DX - Good chance it may destroy your camera. Older flashes (Thyristor or not) have very high trigger voltages. Modern DSLRs need flashes with much lower trigger voltages (Canons are limited to 6V for example), older flashes will destroy them. I've heard the Pentax K10D is far more tolerant of high trigger voltages than other DSLRs, but I would not risk it. Pentax Germany has said that Pentax DSLR's, such as the istD and istDS, can safely handle a maximum (middle positive) voltage of 30 volts. That specification was also recently reaffirmed by Wim van Kleef, Pentax Digital Camera Support Team, Pentax USA. Pentax Germany also said the K10D, which shares similar circuitry, was built to even higher voltage tolerances, but could not say how high since that spec has not been officially released yet. Very early versions of the Sunpak Auto 30DX had a trigger voltage of 10.4v, with later production models using between 4.6v to 7.5v. As such, it should be perfectly safe to use the Sunpak with the K10D. Since he is familar with using it manually, it should work just fine with the K10D as well. The Canon Speedlite 420 EX has a trigger voltage between 3.4v and 5.6v (with some users reporting voltages as high as 7.4v). The Canon should be safe to use with the K10D also, but may not work (as stated in my previous related message). stewart

07-16-2007, 06:16 AM	#17
GridUser Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bettendorf, IA Posts: 30	Thanx for all the help, folks. I think I'm going to hold off on using an external flash for a while. I'm a babe-in-the-woods as far as the jargon everybody's bantering about, so I need time to digest that and ask more questions. I hope its OK to ask a lot of dumb newbie-type questions in this thread and forum. If it isn't please tell me and let me know where I should go to "bug" you cmaera-savvy people. I know the Sunpak says it is an auto-thyristor (whatever that means) but I never trusted it in auto mode (at least I don't remember doing so. I always had to adjust the exposure, I can't remember if it was up or down anymore, becaue it was overexposing shots. On a film camera, that gets expensive. The Canon flash has a lot of red lights and such on the front of it, so I assumed it was automatic in some sense of the word (though I don't know TTL from P-TTL from E-TTL, I must admit). Even it tends to overexpose straight-on shots on my Pro-1, so I tended to fiddle with the exposure on that camera, as well. I usually changed the exposure by -1.5 to -2 (I think - or maybe it was +1.5 to +2 - I don't remember). Why can't they make truly automatic cameras and flashes that truly work together? These electronic doodads are so sophisticated nowadays, yet the "simplest" things seem to be out-of-reach.

07-16-2007, 07:12 AM	#18
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864 Original Poster	Pentaxforums.com is perfect for all types of questions. However, to ensure the maximum number of people see those questions, you may want to start a new thread for each topic. Asking a question here in this particular thread, for example, will mainly be seen only by those interested in the Pentax AF540FGZ (the topic of this thread). But, starting a thread with a title that says "Does SunpakAuto 30DX flash work with K10D?" will be noticed by more people with both a Sunpak flash and a K10D, hence noticed by more with the experience to better answer that question. Anyway, welcome to the forum. stewart

07-17-2007, 05:51 AM	#19
GridUser Junior Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bettendorf, IA Posts: 30	Thanx for the tip. I have been on forums before and get the feeling that people don't like it when new threads are constantly started when people haven't bothered to find and read other threads that might answer the question. I guess I'm being paranoid.

07-17-2007, 06:27 AM	#20
Deni Veteran Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Tirana, Albania, South Europe, Planet Earth Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 621	Originally posted by GridUser I have been on forums before and get the feeling that people don't like it when new threads are constantly started That's because they're selfish .

07-17-2007, 07:24 AM	#21
stewart_photo Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Heidelberg, Germany Posts: 1,864 Original Poster	Originally posted by GridUser I have been on forums before and get the feeling that people don't like it when new threads are constantly started when people haven't bothered to find and read other threads that might answer the question. Of course, it's obviously a good idea to put related messages into an existing thread. But, since the Sunpak & Canon flash units are related to this thread only in that they are flash units, questions about them were unique enough to probably warrant a new thread. As far as other people are concerned, when they own this forum, they can dictate how it is used. Until then, as long as you're following the forum rules, you have my express permission, for what very little that is worth here, to tell them to kiss off. They have no more right to tell anybody how to use this forum than you or I do. The owners and moderators operated this forum, not anyone else. And when those people start ranting about how they won't help anybody who does this or that, don't worry about it. Someone else, like myself, will be right along to offer that help - which really upsets those petty forum dictators. stewart

07-17-2007, 07:57 AM	#22
Peter Zack Pentaxian Moderator Emeritus Join Date: May 2007 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 10,643	Originally posted by stewart_photo Pentaxforums.com is perfect for all types of questions. However, to ensure the maximum number of people see those questions, you may want to start a new thread for each topic. Asking a question here in this particular thread, for example, will mainly be seen only by those interested in the Pentax AF540FGZ (the topic of this thread). But, starting a thread with a title that says "Does SunpakAuto 30DX flash work with K10D?" will be noticed by more people with both a Sunpak flash and a K10D, hence noticed by more with the experience to better answer that question. Anyway, welcome to the forum. stewart Totally agreed and also don't forget to go to the home page and select the correct sub-forum for the topic you want to post the message to. Many newer users here just post all questions in: "General Pentax Photography" which is often not the correct sub-forum. Creating a good title will also ensue that others can search for the answers they need (which may have been previously answered, like 'Does this M42 lens fit my K100D?') instead of re-posting the same topic over and over again.

07-17-2007, 11:00 AM	#23
FotoPete Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Toronto Photos: Gallery Posts: 1,774	Yup I currently use a Sunpak autozoon 333 thyristor and it works great. the recycle times are great as is the ability to tilt/swivel. I'm currently thinking about getting a K100D soon so I bought a Vivitar Series 1 600N. Yea its nikon but the M/P/O version was really beat up and I don't really care for TTL because all my lenses are manual anyways. But if you are skeptical about the choice of a fully P-TTL flash, save yourself a couple hundred and stick with your Sunpak or go for a second hand device. One you are comfortable with it, then decide if you need the extra automated functions.

07-29-2007, 04:04 PM	#25
Entropy Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 976	Defaults are no exposure compensation. If your camera is set otherwise, you're probably the one that changed it and forgot. In my case, even with it cranked to +1 at all times, the 540 significantly underexposes. What is especially annoying: 1) Since it only occurs with the 540, it would make the most sense to dial in the compensation on the flash. But the 540 has a +1 limit to its onboard exposure compensation. 2) Even if the 540 didn't have that stupid +1 limit, it forgets its settings every time you turn it off. The Vivitar 285HV I ordered as part of a Strobist kit from MPEX came in Friday. I haven't had too much time to play with it, but so far in most situations it blows away the 540 at approximately 1/4 the price (for the flash itself) and 1/2-2/3 the price (for a full kit including flash, batteries, battery charger, light stand, reflector umbrella, umbrella holder, and sync cables.)

07-30-2007, 08:43 AM	#26
switters Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Posts: 346	Entropy, I think we've been going back and forth about the AF540 over on the Flickr: Strobist group. I just came across your post here and must say I was relieved to see you mention that the AF540 performs very well when bounced in P-TTL mode. There is rarely, if ever a time I use direct on-camera flash. When it's on camera I'm always bouncing it off of a Flip-It panel, a wall, or both. In fact, the only reason I want/need a P-TTL flash is because when I shoot portraits of young children (which is about 50% of what I do with my camera right now) I find TTL operation to be very convenient (on my Canon 20D at least). I shoot in manual and often find myself changing the setting as necessary. Using auto mode with the flash means another setting I'd have to take the time to change, which slows me down. I'm really hoping P-TTL on the 540 works when bounced as you suggest. It occurs to me, though, that I have an option with the K10D that I didn't have with the Canon 20D (which is one of the many reasons I'm switching over!). I could put it in the mode where I choose the aperture & shutter speed and the camera adjusts the ISO as necessary. If I did this, I could use the AF540 in "auto" mode without having to change the aperture setting on the flash. Two questions though: 1) does "auto" mode work with high-speed sync?, and 2) does "auto" mode work with bounced flash on the AF540? In terms of Strobist off-camera use, I also have a used SB-26 that I picked up for $90. I preferred it to the Viv 285 because it has a lower minimum power output (1/64 vs. 1/16). I intend to use a hotshoe-to-PC cable to connect my K10D to the SB-26, and let the SB-26 fire the AF540 in "slave" mode. Sure, it's an expensive flash to use as a slave in this set-up (especially since I could get another SB-26 used or a 285HV)... but I need it for the on-camera P-TTL stuff so it makes sense. I'm pretty excited because on Thursday I receive my K10D & AF540 + several lenses to try out (DA 21, DA 40, DA 70, 35/2, 50/1.4). I'm only going to keep 2, maybe 3 max, but none of the local stores carry them so I figured I'd just return the ones (to B&H) I don't want to keep.

07-30-2007, 04:00 PM	#27
Entropy Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Owego, NY Posts: 976	I wouldn't say "very well", but at least my test shots yesterday were acceptable even with no FEC or EC. I have no idea why, previously even when bounced it would wind up not even touching the right half of the histogram, and often not even touching the right 3/4. Now it goes slightly into the right half, but more importantly it was identical to both the 540 and the 285HV in auto mode.