Flash Tilt and Swivel

**smh2005** · 04-08-2010, 09:06 AM

I attended Joe McNally's (Kelby) flash seminar in Philadelphia yesterday. It was awesome for me, a very experienced amateur photographer who has very little flash experience (it has always scared me, plus I've been too cheap to buy flashes!).

He demonstrated taking a group photo like this: he stood with his back to a white wall, standing very close to the wall. The group was in the middle of the space arrayed like you'd expect. The trick was to aim the flash so it pointed backward, above his head toward the wall. The result was nice even illumination.

My question is, can this be done with the Pentax 540 and/or Metz 58 flashes?

aleonx3 · 04-08-2010, 09:11 AM

Yes, you should be able to use either one of the flashes mentioned - the technique is called bounced flash - pretty much everything that can reflect light.

Ratmagiclady · 04-08-2010, 11:58 AM

All you need is a cooperative *wall.*

If you want to learn flash, learn that where the sensor, (if automated, this may be in the flash or within the camera) is pointing, and where the head is pointing.

This is part of why bringing your own bounce card is so nice. But, yes, you might just find yourself backed up to a nice white-painted concrete wall. Or under a nice ceiling. If that flash is on the camera, keep your eyes on a swivel, think of the light as it goes where it goes.

Arpe · 04-08-2010, 05:53 PM

trouble is finding that wall, unless you take one with you.

**Ash** · 04-08-2010, 06:09 PM

Which is why a reflective umbrella on a stand is so useful.
The 540 can be operated wirelessly: just mount on the stand pointing into the reflective surface (or through a shoot-through umbrella), and shoot away. Problem only arises if you want to trigger a flash placed behind the camera, in which case you'll need two flashes, one on the mount to point towards the other (remote flash).

**EsBee** · 04-08-2010, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by Ash

Which is why a reflective umbrella on a stand is so useful.
The 540 can be operated wirelessly: just mount on the stand pointing into the reflective surface (or through a shoot-through umbrella), and shoot away. Problem only arises if you want to trigger a flash placed behind the camera, in which case you'll need two flashes, one on the mount to point towards the other (remote flash).

Not true. I just tested a K20D with its pop-up as master trigger a 540 sitting about 10 feet behind the camera go off every time in several of my tries.

**Ash** · 04-08-2010, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by EsBee

Not true. I just tested a K20D with its pop-up as master trigger a 540 sitting about 10 feet behind the camera go off every time in several of my tries.

That of course depends on how the popup trigger flash reflects off surrounding surfaces. In a closed room with bright walls, no problem. Outside, with no line of sight and nothing to reflect back onto the 540 sensor, it won't do.

**EsBee** · 04-09-2010, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by Ash

That of course depends on how the popup trigger flash reflects off surrounding surfaces. In a closed room with bright walls, no problem. Outside, with no line of sight and nothing to reflect back onto the 540 sensor, it won't do.

Yes, but you'd be hard-pressed to see anyone use a flash from BEHIND the camera outdoors. So that application is a moot point.

**Ash** · 04-09-2010, 07:20 AM

Originally posted by EsBee

Yes, but you'd be hard-pressed to see anyone use a flash from BEHIND the camera outdoors. So that application is a mute point.

Well I can say that I've done that - several times. Flash off to one side and just behind camera diffused by reflective umbrella, not in direct path of the popup flash with these results:

**EsBee** · 04-09-2010, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by Ash

Well I can say that I've done that - several times. Flash off to one side and just behind camera diffused by reflective umbrella, not in direct path of the popup flash with these results:

On a side isn't the same as behind nevertheless, nice results if that's what it took.

GerryL · 04-09-2010, 09:45 AM

You could also use a bounce card if the wall is dark colored or far away or the ceiling is too high. A diffuser helps too together with the bounce card.

04-08-2010, 09:06 AM	#1
smh2005 Site Supporter Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: Connecticut Posts: 22	Flash Tilt and Swivel I attended Joe McNally's (Kelby) flash seminar in Philadelphia yesterday. It was awesome for me, a very experienced amateur photographer who has very little flash experience (it has always scared me, plus I've been too cheap to buy flashes!). He demonstrated taking a group photo like this: he stood with his back to a white wall, standing very close to the wall. The group was in the middle of the space arrayed like you'd expect. The trick was to aim the flash so it pointed backward, above his head toward the wall. The result was nice even illumination. My question is, can this be done with the Pentax 540 and/or Metz 58 flashes?

04-09-2010, 06:19 AM	#8
EsBee Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: National Capital Region Posts: 739	Originally posted by Ash That of course depends on how the popup trigger flash reflects off surrounding surfaces. In a closed room with bright walls, no problem. Outside, with no line of sight and nothing to reflect back onto the 540 sensor, it won't do. Yes, but you'd be hard-pressed to see anyone use a flash from BEHIND the camera outdoors. So that application is a moot point. Last edited by EsBee; 04-09-2010 at 06:41 AM.

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04-08-2010, 09:11 AM	#2
aleonx3 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Brampton, Ontario Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 3,996	Yes, you should be able to use either one of the flashes mentioned - the technique is called bounced flash - pretty much everything that can reflect light.

04-08-2010, 11:58 AM	#3
Ratmagiclady Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: GA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 13,563	All you need is a cooperative wall. If you want to learn flash, learn that where the sensor, (if automated, this may be in the flash or within the camera) is pointing, and where the head is pointing. This is part of why bringing your own bounce card is so nice. But, yes, you might just find yourself backed up to a nice white-painted concrete wall. Or under a nice ceiling. If that flash is on the camera, keep your eyes on a swivel, think of the light as it goes where it goes.

04-08-2010, 05:53 PM	#4
Arpe Pentaxian Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: New Zealand Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 4,452	trouble is finding that wall, unless you take one with you.

04-08-2010, 06:09 PM	#5
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Which is why a reflective umbrella on a stand is so useful. The 540 can be operated wirelessly: just mount on the stand pointing into the reflective surface (or through a shoot-through umbrella), and shoot away. Problem only arises if you want to trigger a flash placed behind the camera, in which case you'll need two flashes, one on the mount to point towards the other (remote flash).

04-08-2010, 09:12 PM	#6
EsBee Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: National Capital Region Posts: 739	Originally posted by Ash Which is why a reflective umbrella on a stand is so useful. The 540 can be operated wirelessly: just mount on the stand pointing into the reflective surface (or through a shoot-through umbrella), and shoot away. Problem only arises if you want to trigger a flash placed behind the camera, in which case you'll need two flashes, one on the mount to point towards the other (remote flash). Not true. I just tested a K20D with its pop-up as master trigger a 540 sitting about 10 feet behind the camera go off every time in several of my tries.

04-08-2010, 10:54 PM	#7
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by EsBee Not true. I just tested a K20D with its pop-up as master trigger a 540 sitting about 10 feet behind the camera go off every time in several of my tries. That of course depends on how the popup trigger flash reflects off surrounding surfaces. In a closed room with bright walls, no problem. Outside, with no line of sight and nothing to reflect back onto the 540 sensor, it won't do.

04-09-2010, 07:20 AM	#9
Ash Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Toowoomba, Queensland Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,920	Originally posted by EsBee Yes, but you'd be hard-pressed to see anyone use a flash from BEHIND the camera outdoors. So that application is a mute point. Well I can say that I've done that - several times. Flash off to one side and just behind camera diffused by reflective umbrella, not in direct path of the popup flash with these results:

04-09-2010, 07:43 AM	#10
EsBee Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: National Capital Region Posts: 739	Originally posted by Ash Well I can say that I've done that - several times. Flash off to one side and just behind camera diffused by reflective umbrella, not in direct path of the popup flash with these results: On a side isn't the same as behind nevertheless, nice results if that's what it took.

04-09-2010, 09:45 AM	#11
GerryL Veteran Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: CA Posts: 2,731	You could also use a bounce card if the wall is dark colored or far away or the ceiling is too high. A diffuser helps too together with the bounce card.