Metz 60 CT 4 Flash Question

wlachan · 04-26-2010, 02:45 PM

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

It does so when you use manual lenses, aka M or K lenses! I forgot about that. These will always be recognized as having f/1.0 with those flash guns that have digital settings and the Auto-mode will accordingly always fall to f/1.0. I talked to Metz about that two years ago or so and they did not even know about that behaviour, which is the same with the 3702M2. The only solution would be to use the simple SAC 300 hot shoe adaptor.

Those flashes which have a mechanical dial for setting the aperture are immune against this odd behaviour (namely the 45 and 60 series).

Thanks for reminding me about this strangeness!

Ben

But I was using DS with FA primes. Anyway, it was history now and 3701 should be avoid these days.

Ben_Edict · 04-26-2010, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by wlachan

But I was using DS with FA primes. Anyway, it was history now and 3701 should be avoid these days.

With the 3701 and the istDS you've got TTL, not P-TTL. TTL on the istDS was just, eeeh, somewhat poorly performing in my own experience. The Pentax AFT 280 was slightly better, the FTZ400 even worse than the Metz SCAs.

But how the 3701 affected Auto-mode (Beyond the problems with the manual aperture lenses), I have no idea. On my 54MZ3/4 flashes or the MZ50 and 45series flashes, the 3701 performed completely similar to the 3702, except for the missing P-TTL. I am still using one 3701 on an older 54MZ-3 (which cannot P-TTL with whatever adapter) and it works reliably in Auto.

Maybe there are different revisions for the 3701 as well?

Ben

wlachan · 04-26-2010, 03:10 PM

Possible. I think mine were the M only. I don't have the data with me anymore. I remember the flash would display iso/aperture correctly, but the exposure was not. I double confirmed with my flash meter too. Perhaps the 40MZ series were just too old for DSLRs.

bodhi08 · 04-28-2010, 11:54 PM

So I've got my Metz Mecablitz 60 CT-4 with "SCA 346/2 AF [M4]" and "SCA 300A".

How to use this flash?

How can I set it in auto?

It seems that it does not communicate well with the camera because my pics are overexposed.

cheers

Ben_Edict · 04-29-2010, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by bodhi08

So I've got my Metz Mecablitz 60 CT-4 with "SCA 346/2 AF [M4]" and "SCA 300A".

How to use this flash?

How can I set it in auto?

It seems that it does not communicate well with the camera because my pics are overexposed.

cheers

Read the manual: http://www.metzflash.co.uk/pdffiles/60_CT-4GB.pdf

The SCA 346 is a Nikon adapter by the way and will not comunicate with your Pentax anyway. So xyou have to manually choose the Auto-setting on the flash.

Ben

JeffJS · 04-29-2010, 09:07 PM

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

Read the manual: http://www.metzflash.co.uk/pdffiles/60_CT-4GB.pdf

The SCA 346 is a Nikon adapter by the way and will not comunicate with your Pentax anyway. So you have to manually choose the Auto-setting on the flash.

Ben

Going to have to anyway.. The 60 CT-x flashes do not support P-TTL as far as I know.

bodhi08 · 04-29-2010, 10:46 PM

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

Read the manual: http://www.metzflash.co.uk/pdffiles/60_CT-4GB.pdf

The SCA 346 is a Nikon adapter by the way and will not comunicate with your Pentax anyway. So xyou have to manually choose the Auto-setting on the flash.

Ben

Manually choose the auto-setting?
Isn't it the same as a full manual flash?

How to use this flash as a fill in flash?
Seems that it has a bit too much power.

I know nothing about flash but I'm having fun playing around with this flash.

Wheatfield · 04-29-2010, 11:38 PM

Originally posted by bodhi08

Manually choose the auto-setting?
Isn't it the same as a full manual flash?

How to use this flash as a fill in flash?
Seems that it has a bit too much power.

I know nothing about flash but I'm having fun playing around with this flash.

You should probably seek out an owners manual.
Anyway, you can use the 60 CT4 as an autoflash by using a PC cable, either to the PC socket if your camera has one, or else to a PC adapter on the hot shoe.
If you use the latter, a Safe-Sync style of adapter would be prudent.
Using the flash this way, you set the shutter speed of your camera to X (or slower), chose an aperture to shoot at, and set your flash to match the chosen aperture and ISO.
The flash will choose the amount of light, and will probably do so as accurately as a TTL type flash.

Ben_Edict · 04-30-2010, 02:34 AM

Originally posted by bodhi08

Manually choose the auto-setting?
Isn't it the same as a full manual flash?

How to use this flash as a fill in flash?
Seems that it has a bit too much power.

I know nothing about flash but I'm having fun playing around with this flash.

You do not even need the pc-cable, you can use the Nikon adapter you bought with the flash.

READ THE MANUAL. There you will find, how the dial and the buttons on the flash work. You simply dial in the ISO and aperture settings on the Metz's back you have set on camera. Then the flash will control its light output during exposure and the image will be fine in most cases. It will also go down with the output if required (short distance between flash and subject, or instance).

For fill flash you would usually determine the aperture, ISO and shutter speed of the camera to match the general light level and than add flash with about 1 or 1.5 f-stops underexpsore. This will just add some light to the shadow areas without being obvious. Therefore you can either dial in a higher ISO setting on the flash, than on the camera or you dial in a smaller f-number on the flash, than on the camera. In both cases the flash will give a lower output than would be required and thus provide the ideal fill.

Ben

bodhi08 · 04-30-2010, 04:34 AM

Ben:
Thanks.

You saved my bacon

I tried what you suggested with great success.
I simply dial in the ISO and aperture and it works

I even tried to bounce it off a high ceiling (about 3-4 meters high) and it worked. But I dialed 2 stops smaller f-number to get the result that I want.

I was using shutter speed 1/60.
I change the shutter speed to 1/160 and the result is similar (not underexposed).
Does the flash know that the camera's shutter is set to 1/60 or 1/160?
It seems that the flash auto-compensate for faster shutter speed.
Is this right?

The fastest shutter speed is 1/160. Above that, the flash won't fire.
What's the reason behind this?

cheers

Wheatfield · 04-30-2010, 06:24 AM

Originally posted by bodhi08

Ben:

The fastest shutter speed is 1/160. Above that, the flash won't fire.
What's the reason behind this?

cheers

Pentax turns off the flash trigger above the flash sync speed.

JeffJS · 04-30-2010, 06:58 AM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

Pentax turns off the flash trigger above the flash sync speed.

Which on the K7 is 1/180 sec.

bodhi08 · 04-30-2010, 08:32 AM

Originally posted by JeffJS

Which on the K7 is 1/180 sec.

That's strange because I tried to choose 1/180s but I could not. I was using the TAv and M mode and it went straight from 1/160s to 1/200s (no 1/180s).

Am I missing something?

cheers

Wheatfield · 04-30-2010, 09:05 AM

I don't have my K7 in front of me, but I don't think you can select 1/180 of a second off the shutter speed dial.
To get that speed you have to select X on the mode dial.
You may be able to get 1/180 if you have your shutter speed adjustment set to 1/3 stops rather than 1/2, so I am willing to be wrong on this.
My camera is too far away to check this easily.

JeffJS · 04-30-2010, 12:49 PM

Originally posted by Wheatfield

I don't have my K7 in front of me, but I don't think you can select 1/180 of a second off the shutter speed dial.
To get that speed you have to select X on the mode dial.
You may be able to get 1/180 if you have your shutter speed adjustment set to 1/3 stops rather than 1/2, so I am willing to be wrong on this.
My camera is too far away to check this easily.

Manual mode, on camera flash, 1/180 sec selected via dial. x Sync also fires at 1/180 second.

04-29-2010, 06:27 AM	#20
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by bodhi08 So I've got my Metz Mecablitz 60 CT-4 with "SCA 346/2 AF [M4]" and "SCA 300A". How to use this flash? How can I set it in auto? It seems that it does not communicate well with the camera because my pics are overexposed. cheers Read the manual: http://www.metzflash.co.uk/pdffiles/60_CT-4GB.pdf The SCA 346 is a Nikon adapter by the way and will not comunicate with your Pentax anyway. So xyou have to manually choose the Auto-setting on the flash. Ben Last edited by Ben_Edict; 04-29-2010 at 06:34 AM.

04-30-2010, 12:49 PM	#30
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by Wheatfield I don't have my K7 in front of me, but I don't think you can select 1/180 of a second off the shutter speed dial. To get that speed you have to select X on the mode dial. You may be able to get 1/180 if you have your shutter speed adjustment set to 1/3 stops rather than 1/2, so I am willing to be wrong on this. My camera is too far away to check this easily. Manual mode, on camera flash, 1/180 sec selected via dial. x Sync also fires at 1/180 second. Attached Images

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04-26-2010, 02:45 PM	#16
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Originally posted by Ben_Edict It does so when you use manual lenses, aka M or K lenses! I forgot about that. These will always be recognized as having f/1.0 with those flash guns that have digital settings and the Auto-mode will accordingly always fall to f/1.0. I talked to Metz about that two years ago or so and they did not even know about that behaviour, which is the same with the 3702M2. The only solution would be to use the simple SAC 300 hot shoe adaptor. Those flashes which have a mechanical dial for setting the aperture are immune against this odd behaviour (namely the 45 and 60 series). Thanks for reminding me about this strangeness! Ben But I was using DS with FA primes. Anyway, it was history now and 3701 should be avoid these days.

04-26-2010, 02:51 PM	#17
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by wlachan But I was using DS with FA primes. Anyway, it was history now and 3701 should be avoid these days. With the 3701 and the istDS you've got TTL, not P-TTL. TTL on the istDS was just, eeeh, somewhat poorly performing in my own experience. The Pentax AFT 280 was slightly better, the FTZ400 even worse than the Metz SCAs. But how the 3701 affected Auto-mode (Beyond the problems with the manual aperture lenses), I have no idea. On my 54MZ3/4 flashes or the MZ50 and 45series flashes, the 3701 performed completely similar to the 3702, except for the missing P-TTL. I am still using one 3701 on an older 54MZ-3 (which cannot P-TTL with whatever adapter) and it works reliably in Auto. Maybe there are different revisions for the 3701 as well? Ben

04-26-2010, 03:10 PM	#18
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Possible. I think mine were the M only. I don't have the data with me anymore. I remember the flash would display iso/aperture correctly, but the exposure was not. I double confirmed with my flash meter too. Perhaps the 40MZ series were just too old for DSLRs.

04-28-2010, 11:54 PM	#19
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180 Original Poster	So I've got my Metz Mecablitz 60 CT-4 with "SCA 346/2 AF [M4]" and "SCA 300A". How to use this flash? How can I set it in auto? It seems that it does not communicate well with the camera because my pics are overexposed. cheers

04-29-2010, 09:07 PM	#21
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by Ben_Edict Read the manual: http://www.metzflash.co.uk/pdffiles/60_CT-4GB.pdf The SCA 346 is a Nikon adapter by the way and will not comunicate with your Pentax anyway. So you have to manually choose the Auto-setting on the flash. Ben Going to have to anyway.. The 60 CT-x flashes do not support P-TTL as far as I know.

04-29-2010, 10:46 PM	#22
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180 Original Poster	Originally posted by Ben_Edict Read the manual: http://www.metzflash.co.uk/pdffiles/60_CT-4GB.pdf The SCA 346 is a Nikon adapter by the way and will not comunicate with your Pentax anyway. So xyou have to manually choose the Auto-setting on the flash. Ben Manually choose the auto-setting? Isn't it the same as a full manual flash? How to use this flash as a fill in flash? Seems that it has a bit too much power. I know nothing about flash but I'm having fun playing around with this flash.

04-29-2010, 11:38 PM	#23
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by bodhi08 Manually choose the auto-setting? Isn't it the same as a full manual flash? How to use this flash as a fill in flash? Seems that it has a bit too much power. I know nothing about flash but I'm having fun playing around with this flash. You should probably seek out an owners manual. Anyway, you can use the 60 CT4 as an autoflash by using a PC cable, either to the PC socket if your camera has one, or else to a PC adapter on the hot shoe. If you use the latter, a Safe-Sync style of adapter would be prudent. Using the flash this way, you set the shutter speed of your camera to X (or slower), chose an aperture to shoot at, and set your flash to match the chosen aperture and ISO. The flash will choose the amount of light, and will probably do so as accurately as a TTL type flash.

04-30-2010, 02:34 AM	#24
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by bodhi08 Manually choose the auto-setting? Isn't it the same as a full manual flash? How to use this flash as a fill in flash? Seems that it has a bit too much power. I know nothing about flash but I'm having fun playing around with this flash. You do not even need the pc-cable, you can use the Nikon adapter you bought with the flash. READ THE MANUAL. There you will find, how the dial and the buttons on the flash work. You simply dial in the ISO and aperture settings on the Metz's back you have set on camera. Then the flash will control its light output during exposure and the image will be fine in most cases. It will also go down with the output if required (short distance between flash and subject, or instance). For fill flash you would usually determine the aperture, ISO and shutter speed of the camera to match the general light level and than add flash with about 1 or 1.5 f-stops underexpsore. This will just add some light to the shadow areas without being obvious. Therefore you can either dial in a higher ISO setting on the flash, than on the camera or you dial in a smaller f-number on the flash, than on the camera. In both cases the flash will give a lower output than would be required and thus provide the ideal fill. Ben

04-30-2010, 04:34 AM	#25
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180 Original Poster	Ben: Thanks. You saved my bacon I tried what you suggested with great success. I simply dial in the ISO and aperture and it works I even tried to bounce it off a high ceiling (about 3-4 meters high) and it worked. But I dialed 2 stops smaller f-number to get the result that I want. I was using shutter speed 1/60. I change the shutter speed to 1/160 and the result is similar (not underexposed). Does the flash know that the camera's shutter is set to 1/60 or 1/160? It seems that the flash auto-compensate for faster shutter speed. Is this right? The fastest shutter speed is 1/160. Above that, the flash won't fire. What's the reason behind this? cheers

04-30-2010, 06:24 AM	#26
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by bodhi08 Ben: The fastest shutter speed is 1/160. Above that, the flash won't fire. What's the reason behind this? cheers Pentax turns off the flash trigger above the flash sync speed.

04-30-2010, 06:58 AM	#27
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by Wheatfield Pentax turns off the flash trigger above the flash sync speed. Which on the K7 is 1/180 sec.

04-30-2010, 08:32 AM	#28
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180 Original Poster	Originally posted by JeffJS Which on the K7 is 1/180 sec. That's strange because I tried to choose 1/180s but I could not. I was using the TAv and M mode and it went straight from 1/160s to 1/200s (no 1/180s). Am I missing something? cheers

04-30-2010, 09:05 AM	#29
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	I don't have my K7 in front of me, but I don't think you can select 1/180 of a second off the shutter speed dial. To get that speed you have to select X on the mode dial. You may be able to get 1/180 if you have your shutter speed adjustment set to 1/3 stops rather than 1/2, so I am willing to be wrong on this. My camera is too far away to check this easily.