Metz 60 CT 4 Flash Question

bodhi08 · 04-22-2010, 03:21 AM

I have a K7.

I'm thinking of buying a (bargain) Metz Mecablitz 60 CT-4 with Battery Pack and SCA Adapter included in the package.
The previous owner was using this flash for his Nikon system so the adapter is for Nikon. The adapter included with the flash is a "SCA 346/2 AF [M4]" and the cable is a "SCA 300A".

Option 1:
to use this adapter directly with my K7.
Is it possible?
If so, what function will I lose?

Option 2:
I can get the SCA 372 adapter at bargain price (~$50). Is it better to use this adapter instead?
Will I lose any function?

Option 3:
To get SCA 3702 and cable SCA 3000 C as per Metz website recommendation.
The price for SCA 3702 and cable SCA 3000 C is 119 each (a total of of 238 for both).

Which is the best option (considering I do not want to spend too much on the adapter + cable)?

cheers

Last edited by bodhi08; 04-22-2010 at 04:05 AM.

kenyee · 04-22-2010, 05:48 AM

I've used that combo on my K20D but it doesn't fire up the AF assist lamp in the 346. The 372 might (I've never tried it, but it you do, please post back w/ your results)...

JeffJS · 04-23-2010, 10:45 AM

IIRC, the Metz 3702 does work to light up the AF assist lamp on my 50MZ5 IIRC. However, these are NOT P-TTL compatible and you'll have to manually set the flash to use it. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but this combo is going to Function exactly as any other Non PTTL flash would on the Pentax.

Have fun carrying that dry-cell around

Wheatfield · 04-23-2010, 06:23 PM

I don't know if this will help or not, since I can't answer any of your technical questions, but...
I use an even older Metz 60-CT2 as my front line wedding flash.
It's a big, semi smart auto flash that plugs into the PC socket.
It works just fine thank you, doing exactly what it is supposed to do.
If the CT4 you are looking at has a PC cord, it will be a good, powerful flash that will keep going and going and going.....
I'd rather carry the battery pack (I use a dry fit) than change out AA batteries in a Rube Goldberg mounted hot shoe flash any day.

bodhi08 · 04-26-2010, 03:48 AM

Thanks for all the replies.

kenyee:
I'll let you know when I've tried the SCA 372.

JeffJS:
I'm planning to use it in Auto mode. I heard it is accurate enough (even more accurate than the P-TTL mode).

Wheatfield:
Where did you get the PC cord for this flash?
Have you tried making you own battery pack?
I google some info on the battery pack and some people have made their own battery pack from AA batteries (if I'm not mistaken)

wlachan · 04-26-2010, 04:04 AM

372 is an analog shoe which will not fire the AF assist. 3701 was design for Z/PZ film cameras or earlier and will not work properly with any DSLRs. 3702 has M/M2/M3 and I am not sure their exact differences, but P-TTL & HSS will not work. You will have AF assist and that's it. If you don't need that, you might save the $ and use the plain 301 shoe. What 372 will offer is the camera will detect the flash and set the shutter automatically and not beyond 1/180s. However, it is kind of dumb and not quite useful if you do your own shutter/aperture adjustment.

kenyee · 04-26-2010, 08:54 AM

Thanks wlachan...good to know.. :-)
Someone else mentioned that the 3702M2 (the latest AFAIK) will work w/ the latest Metz 45 Digital version for P-TTL, but this is fairly costly. I'm hoping that people buy and sell more of these Metz45 digitals, but I doubt that'll happen...

JeffJS · 04-26-2010, 09:59 AM

Originally posted by bodhi08

Thanks for all the replies.

kenyee:
I'll let you know when I've tried the SCA 372.

JeffJS:
I'm planning to use it in Auto mode. I heard it is accurate enough (even more accurate than the P-TTL mode).

Wheatfield:
Where did you get the PC cord for this flash?
Have you tried making you own battery pack?
I google some info on the battery pack and some people have made their own battery pack from AA batteries (if I'm not mistaken)

I've found that it works quite well in auto mode (any flash does) but I also decided that I don't care for the side shadows that the side mounted flash throws.

You can usually find accessories and battery packs for the Metz 60 flashes on ebay.

Wheatfield · 04-26-2010, 10:46 AM

Originally posted by bodhi08

Wheatfield:
Where did you get the PC cord for this flash?
Have you tried making you own battery pack?
I google some info on the battery pack and some people have made their own battery pack from AA batteries (if I'm not mistaken)

I got my PC cord from my local camera store.
I use an original equipment Metz 60 battery pack which carries a 6 volt "dry fit" lead acid battery. I can't see any point in cobbling together a battery pack for the Metz 60 flash when it is not going to be an improvement on the stock pack.

kenyee · 04-26-2010, 12:33 PM

The wink light subflash indeed is terrible.

AFAIK, the 60 needs to be used w/ the Metz pack that comes w/ it...some of the charging circuitry is inside as well as the battery...

Ben_Edict · 04-26-2010, 01:51 PM

Originally posted by wlachan

372 is an analog shoe which will not fire the AF assist. 3701 was design for Z/PZ film cameras or earlier and will not work properly with any DSLRs. 3702 has M/M2/M3 and I am not sure their exact differences, but P-TTL & HSS will not work. You will have AF assist and that's it. If you don't need that, you might save the $ and use the plain 301 shoe. What 372 will offer is the camera will detect the flash and set the shutter automatically and not beyond 1/180s. However, it is kind of dumb and not quite useful if you do your own shutter/aperture adjustment.

The 3701 SCA adapter is just fine for that use, as the 60CTseries won't support P-TTL, whatever SCA adapter one uses. The 3701 can be found quite cheap on ebay, whereas the necessary SCA 3000 controller is a rare find and mostly not much cheaper than the new one, which is still available.

The older 372 is, just as wlachan wrote from analogue days and won't give you much advantage over using the simple pc-cord. Whether any of these adapters sets the sync-speed is also dependent (but I overlook that myself at times) on your camera settings. As I always have long speed synching enabled, the camera will not go to 1/180s, even with the P-TTL compatible SCA flashes and adapters.

Ben

Ben_Edict · 04-26-2010, 01:53 PM

Originally posted by kenyee

The wink light subflash indeed is terrible.

AFAIK, the 60 needs to be used w/ the Metz pack that comes w/ it...some of the charging circuitry is inside as well as the battery...

You can simply replace the lead battery, if the old one is weak. That's easy and cheap.

Ben

Ben_Edict · 04-26-2010, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by kenyee

Thanks wlachan...good to know.. :-)
Someone else mentioned that the 3702M2 (the latest AFAIK) will work w/ the latest Metz 45 Digital version for P-TTL, but this is fairly costly. I'm hoping that people buy and sell more of these Metz45 digitals, but I doubt that'll happen...

The SCA 3702M2 is the adapter reversion, that supports P-TTL on a few select Metz SCA flash guns, like the 45 CL-4digital, the 76 MZ-5 digital or the 54 MZ-4(i). I have never seen one of those 45digitals or 76digitals secondhand and even the 54 MZ-4 is rather rare on the secondhand market.

Ben

wlachan · 04-26-2010, 02:32 PM

Originally posted by Ben_Edict

The 3701 SCA adapter is just fine for that use, as the 60CTseries won't support P-TTL, whatever SCA adapter one uses. The 3701 can be found quite cheap on ebay, whereas the necessary SCA 3000 controller is a rare find and mostly not much cheaper than the new one, which is still available.

I used to have a pair of 3701 with 40MZ-3i flashes. For some unknown reason, it messes up the plain A flash which was totally useless. I would have assume it might do the same with other 3000 flashes.

Ben_Edict · 04-26-2010, 02:41 PM

Originally posted by wlachan

I used to have a pair of 3701 with 40MZ-3i flashes. For some unknown reason, it messes up the plain A flash which was totally useless. I would have assume it might do the same with other 3000 flashes.

It does so when you use manual lenses, aka M or K lenses! I forgot about that. These will always be recognized as having f/1.0 with those flash guns that have digital settings and the Auto-mode will accordingly always fall to f/1.0. I talked to Metz about that two years ago or so and they did not even know about that behaviour, which is the same with the 3702M2. The only solution would be to use the simple SAC 300 hot shoe adaptor.

Those flashes which have a mechanical dial for setting the aperture are immune against this odd behaviour (namely the 45 and 60 series).

Thanks for reminding me about this strangeness!

Ben

04-22-2010, 03:21 AM	#1
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180	Metz 60 CT 4 Flash Question I have a K7. I'm thinking of buying a (bargain) Metz Mecablitz 60 CT-4 with Battery Pack and SCA Adapter included in the package. The previous owner was using this flash for his Nikon system so the adapter is for Nikon. The adapter included with the flash is a "SCA 346/2 AF [M4]" and the cable is a "SCA 300A". Option 1: to use this adapter directly with my K7. Is it possible? If so, what function will I lose? Option 2: I can get the SCA 372 adapter at bargain price (~$50). Is it better to use this adapter instead? Will I lose any function? Option 3: To get SCA 3702 and cable SCA 3000 C as per Metz website recommendation. The price for SCA 3702 and cable SCA 3000 C is 119 each (a total of of 238 for both). Which is the best option (considering I do not want to spend too much on the adapter + cable)? cheers Last edited by bodhi08; 04-22-2010 at 04:05 AM.

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04-22-2010, 05:48 AM	#2
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	I've used that combo on my K20D but it doesn't fire up the AF assist lamp in the 346. The 372 might (I've never tried it, but it you do, please post back w/ your results)...

04-23-2010, 10:45 AM	#3
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	IIRC, the Metz 3702 does work to light up the AF assist lamp on my 50MZ5 IIRC. However, these are NOT P-TTL compatible and you'll have to manually set the flash to use it. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but this combo is going to Function exactly as any other Non PTTL flash would on the Pentax. Have fun carrying that dry-cell around

04-23-2010, 06:23 PM	#4
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	I don't know if this will help or not, since I can't answer any of your technical questions, but... I use an even older Metz 60-CT2 as my front line wedding flash. It's a big, semi smart auto flash that plugs into the PC socket. It works just fine thank you, doing exactly what it is supposed to do. If the CT4 you are looking at has a PC cord, it will be a good, powerful flash that will keep going and going and going..... I'd rather carry the battery pack (I use a dry fit) than change out AA batteries in a Rube Goldberg mounted hot shoe flash any day.

04-26-2010, 03:48 AM	#5
bodhi08 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Perth, Australia Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 180 Original Poster	Thanks for all the replies. kenyee: I'll let you know when I've tried the SCA 372. JeffJS: I'm planning to use it in Auto mode. I heard it is accurate enough (even more accurate than the P-TTL mode). Wheatfield: Where did you get the PC cord for this flash? Have you tried making you own battery pack? I google some info on the battery pack and some people have made their own battery pack from AA batteries (if I'm not mistaken)

04-26-2010, 04:04 AM	#6
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	372 is an analog shoe which will not fire the AF assist. 3701 was design for Z/PZ film cameras or earlier and will not work properly with any DSLRs. 3702 has M/M2/M3 and I am not sure their exact differences, but P-TTL & HSS will not work. You will have AF assist and that's it. If you don't need that, you might save the $ and use the plain 301 shoe. What 372 will offer is the camera will detect the flash and set the shutter automatically and not beyond 1/180s. However, it is kind of dumb and not quite useful if you do your own shutter/aperture adjustment.

04-26-2010, 08:54 AM	#7
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	Thanks wlachan...good to know.. :-) Someone else mentioned that the 3702M2 (the latest AFAIK) will work w/ the latest Metz 45 Digital version for P-TTL, but this is fairly costly. I'm hoping that people buy and sell more of these Metz45 digitals, but I doubt that'll happen...

04-26-2010, 09:59 AM	#8
JeffJS Inactive Account Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Michigan, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 7,484	Originally posted by bodhi08 Thanks for all the replies. kenyee: I'll let you know when I've tried the SCA 372. JeffJS: I'm planning to use it in Auto mode. I heard it is accurate enough (even more accurate than the P-TTL mode). Wheatfield: Where did you get the PC cord for this flash? Have you tried making you own battery pack? I google some info on the battery pack and some people have made their own battery pack from AA batteries (if I'm not mistaken) I've found that it works quite well in auto mode (any flash does) but I also decided that I don't care for the side shadows that the side mounted flash throws. You can usually find accessories and battery packs for the Metz 60 flashes on ebay.

04-26-2010, 10:46 AM	#9
Wheatfield Moderator Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: The wheatfields of Canada Posts: 15,981	Originally posted by bodhi08 Wheatfield: Where did you get the PC cord for this flash? Have you tried making you own battery pack? I google some info on the battery pack and some people have made their own battery pack from AA batteries (if I'm not mistaken) I got my PC cord from my local camera store. I use an original equipment Metz 60 battery pack which carries a 6 volt "dry fit" lead acid battery. I can't see any point in cobbling together a battery pack for the Metz 60 flash when it is not going to be an improvement on the stock pack.

04-26-2010, 12:33 PM	#10
kenyee Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Boston, PRofMA Photos: Albums Posts: 3,026	The wink light subflash indeed is terrible. AFAIK, the 60 needs to be used w/ the Metz pack that comes w/ it...some of the charging circuitry is inside as well as the battery...

04-26-2010, 01:51 PM	#11
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by wlachan 372 is an analog shoe which will not fire the AF assist. 3701 was design for Z/PZ film cameras or earlier and will not work properly with any DSLRs. 3702 has M/M2/M3 and I am not sure their exact differences, but P-TTL & HSS will not work. You will have AF assist and that's it. If you don't need that, you might save the $ and use the plain 301 shoe. What 372 will offer is the camera will detect the flash and set the shutter automatically and not beyond 1/180s. However, it is kind of dumb and not quite useful if you do your own shutter/aperture adjustment. The 3701 SCA adapter is just fine for that use, as the 60CTseries won't support P-TTL, whatever SCA adapter one uses. The 3701 can be found quite cheap on ebay, whereas the necessary SCA 3000 controller is a rare find and mostly not much cheaper than the new one, which is still available. The older 372 is, just as wlachan wrote from analogue days and won't give you much advantage over using the simple pc-cord. Whether any of these adapters sets the sync-speed is also dependent (but I overlook that myself at times) on your camera settings. As I always have long speed synching enabled, the camera will not go to 1/180s, even with the P-TTL compatible SCA flashes and adapters. Ben

04-26-2010, 01:53 PM	#12
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by kenyee The wink light subflash indeed is terrible. AFAIK, the 60 needs to be used w/ the Metz pack that comes w/ it...some of the charging circuitry is inside as well as the battery... You can simply replace the lead battery, if the old one is weak. That's easy and cheap. Ben

04-26-2010, 01:58 PM	#13
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by kenyee Thanks wlachan...good to know.. :-) Someone else mentioned that the 3702M2 (the latest AFAIK) will work w/ the latest Metz 45 Digital version for P-TTL, but this is fairly costly. I'm hoping that people buy and sell more of these Metz45 digitals, but I doubt that'll happen... The SCA 3702M2 is the adapter reversion, that supports P-TTL on a few select Metz SCA flash guns, like the 45 CL-4digital, the 76 MZ-5 digital or the 54 MZ-4(i). I have never seen one of those 45digitals or 76digitals secondhand and even the 54 MZ-4 is rather rare on the secondhand market. Ben

04-26-2010, 02:32 PM	#14
wlachan Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Canada Photos: Albums Posts: 2,625	Originally posted by Ben_Edict The 3701 SCA adapter is just fine for that use, as the 60CTseries won't support P-TTL, whatever SCA adapter one uses. The 3701 can be found quite cheap on ebay, whereas the necessary SCA 3000 controller is a rare find and mostly not much cheaper than the new one, which is still available. I used to have a pair of 3701 with 40MZ-3i flashes. For some unknown reason, it messes up the plain A flash which was totally useless. I would have assume it might do the same with other 3000 flashes.

04-26-2010, 02:41 PM	#15
Ben_Edict Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: SouthWest "Regio" Photos: Albums Posts: 3,309	Originally posted by wlachan I used to have a pair of 3701 with 40MZ-3i flashes. For some unknown reason, it messes up the plain A flash which was totally useless. I would have assume it might do the same with other 3000 flashes. It does so when you use manual lenses, aka M or K lenses! I forgot about that. These will always be recognized as having f/1.0 with those flash guns that have digital settings and the Auto-mode will accordingly always fall to f/1.0. I talked to Metz about that two years ago or so and they did not even know about that behaviour, which is the same with the 3702M2. The only solution would be to use the simple SAC 300 hot shoe adaptor. Those flashes which have a mechanical dial for setting the aperture are immune against this odd behaviour (namely the 45 and 60 series). Thanks for reminding me about this strangeness! Ben