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03-17-2013, 04:58 AM   #31
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QuoteOriginally posted by Jean Poitiers Quote
Some good advice here ... and here's my 2 cents worth ... Get A K-5 and buy better glass ... I wish that I had a big hobby budget which allow my to get some limiteds ... J
...but are you being somehow held back by your current lenses?

I'm on fairly normal lenses and I'm not being held back by them. I still have yet to exploit their full potential and not too often I'm left wanting more, aside from perhaps a larger aperture than what the FA35 has.

03-17-2013, 05:08 AM   #32
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I just asked if the 85 mm is far better than DA 70. I understood your point, I will buy k 5, or k 5 ii and I will spend my future money on DA limited, but I can't affor more then 2 primes lens, so this is the reason why I am so nervous, and I don't want to spend my money wrong on these lens. My budget is for a body and 2 lenses( a wide/ultra wide and priority a portrait lens). What would be your choose? The lower the price, the better for me.
03-17-2013, 06:25 AM   #33
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pitagora Quote
I just asked if the 85 mm is far better than DA 70. I understood your point, I will buy k 5, or k 5 ii and I will spend my future money on DA limited, but I can't affor more then 2 primes lens, so this is the reason why I am so nervous, and I don't want to spend my money wrong on these lens. My budget is for a body and 2 lenses( a wide/ultra wide and priority a portrait lens). What would be your choose? The lower the price, the better for me.
QuoteOriginally posted by First Poster Quote
The lower the price, the better for me.
Well, you should not only be looking at limiteds. They often aren't the best bang for the buck, though they are ok. You should also look at used and non-limiteds.

If you can swing it, an FA77 is fine for the portrait, unless you want the crop equivalent of a portrait (ie: 50mm). Also look into the Sigma 85 1.4. It's bigger, but everything I've seen out of it is stunning. If you don't mind manual focus, search around for an M85 F2.

On the wide end, you need to specify what focal length because smaller changes in number equate to bigger actual changes.

Plus there are so many factors that you're not mentioning, so it's kind of hard to give you any recommendation. To me, it looks like you're trying to overcam yourself before you even know what you really want and why and how to really use the equipment.
03-17-2013, 07:09 AM   #34
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QuoteOriginally posted by Pitagora Quote
I will buy k 5, or k 5 ii and I will spend my future money on DA limited, but I can't affor more then 2 primes lens, so this is the reason why I am so nervous, and I don't want to spend my money wrong on these lens.
Well, I think you have already got several good answers and tips, if you just choose to acknowledge them.

If you are nervous and have a limited budget for your first DSLR gear, that is all the more reason to spend less money on your first DSLR body and more on the lenses.

As already mentioned by Dark_Mist, snake, myself and some others, your experience and your taste for DSLR gear will change in time, and you probably will end up liking something different. Quality glass is a different matter.

When you're just starting, it's perfectly ok to try out different cameras before learning what is it that you really want, based on your own experience. Before you get some experience you won't know that, and the more professional specs of the pricier camera bodies won't matter.

Therefore it makes no sense to invest a lot in your first ever DSLR body and then trying to grab whatever excuse for a lens we can barely afford.
Believe us, we've been there, done that, and many of us have paid the extra for learning the lessons the hard way.

Right now there are some very nice offers on K-30 bodies, for example. That would be a great choice for you, and then you could spend the money saved on a better, or another lens. Or, if you insist on getting the K5 on a limited budget, go for a used K5, and then spend the rest on a lens and a tripod. You'll need a bag, too, obviously.

The point is, use less money on the first body and more on the lens(es), and you don't have to agonize which of your favourite lenses to get. Like already mentioned, the sensor in K-30 and K-5 is the same, so choosing the K-30 is not necessarily a quality drop. But a slow kit lens and often a cheap prime lens is. Remember also that there's more to a lens than just the optical characteristics of it.

QuoteQuote:
I just asked if the 85 mm is far better than DA 70.
"Far better" is subjective. In other words, it depends. The DA 70mm is a small, metal built but a bit noisy lens which, apart from slight tendency for colour fringing at full open aperture is a nice short telephoto lens. It's probably sharp and good enough for your needs, and the 70mm in a crop sensor camera gives you a film/full frame equivalent of 105mm, which is a nice classic focal length (field of view) for portraiture. The "bokeh" is also decent enough for portraits, even outdoors.

With the 85mm you'd be using the equivalent of 128mm, which means you'd need more distance between you and the subject. Might become an issue in small spaces. Although it is a nice lens, too. As well as the Sigma equivalent, or any of the Sigma macro versions. They are all good. Like snake mentioned, the DA's are just one way to go, but there is not much point in getting too fixed on those. Sometimes they're considered to be a bit pricey for what they are, even though they are good lenses, and will keep their value pretty well. Nevertheless, you might find something more suitable for you needs in other models as well. Either regular Pentax or Sigma, for example.

Here again, whichever quality lens you go for, you are not likely to regret it much in the long run. Your camera bodies may change, but you are likely to hang on to your lenses, as long as you can. It's a matter of taste, and if you don't overspend on your first DSLR body, it'll be easier to buy a set of different lenses. The so called nifty fifty as a used lens would be a nice all-around lens, too, so go and get one. Or perhaps the nice Sigma 1.4/50mm (or 30mm) prime lens. Oh and whichever lens you'll go for, remember to practise a lot with each one.


Last edited by EchoOscar; 03-17-2013 at 07:18 AM.
03-17-2013, 07:11 AM   #35
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QuoteOriginally posted by snake Quote
Plus there are so many factors that you're not mentioning, so it's kind of hard to give you any recommendation. To me, it looks like you're trying to overcam yourself before you even know what you really want and why and how to really use the equipment.
Exactly.
03-17-2013, 07:36 AM   #36
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@echooscar and snake, thank you very much, because of you I decided to buy an used k 5, but I don't know if I should go with the kit lenses too, before buy the primes, or go directly with primes? Do you recommend me zooms for the first time, or fixed lenses? I like the DA 70 and FA 77, bu the 77 is much pricy. On pentax site I saw they take sharp pictures with zooms, 17-70, or something like that. I know if I go with zooms I loose the sharpness from the fixed, but with a zoom I can cover 2 fixed.
What do you think guys, can you recommend me a very good zoom, sharp enough for a beginner?
03-17-2013, 09:09 AM   #37
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It's not solely a matter of "zoom" vs. "prime".

I think you need to learn what such things as aperture/F-stop mean, as well as learn that different lenses also have different rendering that's not hard-coded in the numeric specifications.

The problem is, it's obvious you need to learn things and it might be slightly harsh to say it, but you're not going to learn anything by asking for people to spoonfeed it to you. You need to do the research like we all did. Unless the plan is to just set to "auto" mode and let the camera do the work and hope you get something.

And I don't really know what "sharp enough for a beginner" is. Really, I'm being constructive here, but none of this makes sense and in three pages, we've made little progress in helping you understand anything or get some headway in learning what the specs mean and what to look for.

We're all trying to help you, but it's very difficult when you're trying to shortcut every answer and only selectively hearing part of the story.
03-17-2013, 12:10 PM   #38
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i don't know where to find information explained like for begginers. in a few words, @snake will be good a zoom like 17-70, or other for me, right now?

03-17-2013, 12:15 PM   #39
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The kit lens is okay as a practise lens. If you can find a K5 that comes with the kit lens for a good price, go for it. Then take a moment to just shoot and practise, and try every feature and mode in the camera, until you understand what each setting and dial does to the photos. It'll be fun and frustrating at the same time. Do not try to hurry things, just practise, and for that just one lens will do.

Don't worry about the "sharp enough" lens quite yet. The kit lens will do, until you get a hang of the basics. Like I said a page or two earlier, chances are your first photos won't be too sharp even with a super sharp lens, until you are familiar with the basics. Like shutter speed, aperture and so on, and how they relate to each other. Your first shots might be sharp, with good luck and under ideal conditions, but prepare for a challenge.

Hopefully you're already familiar with an old rule of thumb that says that, when shooting handheld, you should use a shutter speed (part of a second) that is as big a number or greater than the focal length of your lens. So, for example, if you're shooting a sunset landscape without a tripod with a 50mm lens, you should use 1/60 of a second shutter speed or shorter, aka 1/125 and onwards. If you were using a shutter speed longer than that, say, 1/30 of a second, your photo would come out blurred. Despite all the fancy bits inside your camera body. But if you are using a tripod, you can also use a longer shutter speed, and still get relatively sharp photos, depending on your subject.

Should you use your new camera in the "P" or some other "Full Auto" mode only, you'd get little control over what kind of exposure the camera will use, and your photos may not end up looking like you expected. In that case, not even the sharpest lens will help you. So once more, the key issue here is to practise, practise, practise, whatever lens you'll buy.

But like snake implied, we could be going on and on for (p)ages here. We cannot (and shouldn't) make your decisions for you.
Let's talk some more after you've actually got yourself a camera and a lens. Then, spend a weekend or a week practising with it.
Just go and do it. Nothing beats first hand experience with your own camera.

PS.
If it's possible in your area, try renting. Renting a lens for the weekend is a nice way to try different lenses.
03-17-2013, 12:22 PM   #40
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QuoteOriginally posted by pitagora Quote
i don't know where to find information explained like for begginers. in a few words, @snake will be good a zoom like 17-70, or other for me, right now?
I don't know. You've not given us information on what you want to use it for.
03-17-2013, 02:09 PM   #41
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i gonna use this camera for landscape, portraits, arhitectural, and street photograpy in holidays. i want to know how to use the shutter speed in certain situations, the aperture, iso etc. hwhat is the focal distance , what is the ideal focal distance for my needs etc.
03-17-2013, 02:34 PM   #42
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QuoteOriginally posted by pitagora Quote
i gonna use this camera for landscape, portraits, arhitectural, and street photograpy in holidays. i want to know how to use the shutter speed in certain situations, the aperture, iso etc. hwhat is the focal distance , what is the ideal focal distance for my needs etc.
The camera will come with an instruction manual. You can get all the knowledge you need about how to set such things from the manual.

Only you can decide what the ideal focal distance for your needs are.

Last edited by Tom S.; 03-17-2013 at 02:55 PM. Reason: Rudeness removed
03-17-2013, 02:47 PM   #43
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QuoteOriginally posted by pitagora Quote
i gonna use this camera for landscape, portraits, arhitectural, and street photograpy in holidays. i want to know how to use the shutter speed in certain situations, the aperture, iso etc. hwhat is the focal distance , what is the ideal focal distance for my needs etc.
In that one post, you are in essence asking to be told everything about photography for every given instance, which is difficult to do. The best thing for you to do is get your camera and lens and experiment with them. The beauty of digital is you can take pictures using every conceivable combination of f-stop, shutter speed and ISO without having to pay for developing to see how it came out, plus you don't have to wait - you can see instantly if it works or not.

It might also help you to look up basic photography terms so you understand what they mean and how they relate to each other. You can find this here, or use Google to look at other sites. Once you understand how the photography process works and spend some time with your equipment, most, if not all of your questions should be answered.
03-18-2013, 04:28 AM   #44
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I would recommend buying the K5/K5II (not S), with the 18-55WR kit. Then you have a nice all-round system for most occasions. If you think you need a bit more reach, then go for the 18-135WR kit. Then do as others have suggested and play around with it for a while, until you can clearly define what you want, and what your current lens is not able to deliver. Then go and get the proper high quality lens(es) you require.

Alternatively you can go the expensive route of getting the DA*16-50, and the DA*50-135. Personally i think that is a waste, since you are not 100% sure how you will use your camera.

My first "high-quality" lens was the DA 35. Very nice walkaround lens, but it has now been sold since i did not use it much. I prefer the K 50/1.4 for portraits. I started out with the K-r and kit lens. After that i have bought the K5 and quite a selection of lenses. Some of them very good, like the DA*300. It makes a big difference yes, but the biggest difference is myself; now and compared to a year ago (when i started with this hobby). I can take better pictures with the K-r and Kit lens now, then i would have been able to do with the K5 and whatever lens a year ago.
03-18-2013, 05:35 AM   #45
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Hi Buddy,

I started with Nikon D3000+18-55 kit lens. Played with it for 2 years…then upgraded to K-5II+ 3 limited primes (look at my signature). Before coming to K5-II, I even consider the Nikon/Canon full frame, but settled for K5-II instead. I can’t justify costly, big full frame cameras for my hobby (overkill). I really love my K-5II for its size (form factor) and the IQ it offers.

I suggest you to start with K-5 or K5-II with 18-55 WR kit, since I believe you’ve already set your eye on the K-5II. If I were you..now, I’ll probably go with K-30+18-55 WR. Even in latter stage, when you build up your lens collection (thanks to LBA), you still need your kit lens for shooting in rain/sand or snow!!
Clubbed with a new body..you always get a good deal for the kit lens. Pentax kit lens is one of the best among the competition!!

If you have time, go though my story: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/welcomes-introductions/211362-last-i-am-pentaxian.html

By the way, I still consider myself a beginner!!

I’ve seen people straight away buy a big SLR system and to change it latter for a mirrorless or point&shoot!! That’s one reason, why there are new cameras available for sale in e-bay!! Our preference will always change!!

Last edited by Dynamo; 03-18-2013 at 06:59 AM.
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