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11-11-2015, 06:57 PM   #16
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I might go with the 6d and the 24-105 f/4

You'll get more detail in your images and have both a faster lens and a 'faster' camera (FF vs APS-C). and it will be just as wide as the APS-C 16-85mm Plus, when Canon releases a 6d replacement (should be anytime now) you will already have the lens.

Only big negative is the Canon doesn't have good dynamic range. That might be a factor when taking landscape photos. And I SUSPECT the Pentax has much more thorough weather sealing.

Does it have to specifically be either the 6d or the K-3 II? Nikon make nice Full Frame DSLRs too and they have the added benefit of good dynamic range. I'd shop around..

11-14-2015, 04:12 AM   #17
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Canon 6D: 770g, 145 x 111 x 71 mm
Pentax K-3 II: 800 g, 131 x 100 x 77 mm


Pentax is a little compact than Canon 6D, but heavier. Pentax has better WR and better construction. I had Pentax K-5 II and Pentax K-3 II and I do miss the build quality from Pentax, although 6D isn't bad at all. Af from Canon is better than K-3 II Af, despite the Canon 11 af points. It's more precise in difficult conditions (weddings, clubs, etc.).

Pentax has a little better Dynamic range at low ISO, but you can pull out enough information from shadows on Canon 6D also. You will not get better image quality from Pentax at low ISO, but you will be able to pull out more information from shadows (with Pentax). Look at this night landscape, taken with 6D https://www.facebook.com/fotografieundfilm/photos/a.675799582446877.10737418...type=3&theater

And some landscapes from daylight
https://www.flickr.com/photos/nirav_t/15821580631/in/photolist-q76JGX-xFYWtG...vug3cu-pnz1Ki/

At high ISO there is no match between Canon 6D and Pentax K-3 II. Canon is way better in this regard.

My opinion is to go with 6D. You will get very good images at low ISO and you will also benefit from high ISO capabilities. I have a 35mm f2 IS USM lens for general shots (street, indoor shots), I just bought a 85mm f1.8 USM lens for portraits and I also have a 70-200mm f4L IS USM lens for keeping up with my nephews when they are running.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 11-14-2015 at 10:54 AM.
11-14-2015, 04:36 AM   #18
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Canon 6D: 770g, 145 x 111 x 71 mm
Pentax K-3 II: 800 g, 131 x 100 x 77 mm


Pentax is a little compact than Canon 6D, but heavier. Pentax has better WR and better construction. I had Pentax K-5 II and Pentax K-3 II and I do miss the build quality from Pentax, although 6D isn't bad at all. Af from Canon is better than K-3 II Af, despite the 11 af points. It's more precise in difficult conditions (weddings, clubs, etc.).

Pentax has a little better Dynamic range at low ISO, but you can pull out enough information from shadows on Canon 6D also. You will not get better image quality from Pentax at low ISO, but you will be able to pull out more information from shadows (with Pentax). Look at this guy night landscape, taken with 6D https://www.facebook.com/fotografieundfilm/photos/a.675799582446877.10737418...type=3&theater

At high ISO there is no match between Canon 6D and Pentax K-3 II. Canon is way better in this regard.

My opinion is to go with 6D. I have a 35mm f2 IS USM lens for general shots (street and some landscape), I just bought a 85mm f1.8 USM lens for portraits and I also have a 70-200mm f4L IS USM lens for keeping up with my nephews.
I really think for a primary landscape camera, the K3 II is probably a better choice. If you want full frame landscape, I would go with a camera with a Sony sensor like the D610 or D800/D810. The 6D will be better at high iso, but in my opinion that is less than useful for most landscape shots. The more important question is how good is it at low iso. How much can you get out of the shadows, while not losing highlights in the sky? If you can get enough, then you can forego the use of filters and doing multiple exposures. If you are more limited, then you need to shoot multiple exposures more often in order to get both shadows and highlights adequately present in your photo.

The OP seems to indicate that landscape is the primary purpose of his camera and I do think for that the K3 is a little better than the 6D.

(shot with a K3 and DA *55 -- single image)

11-14-2015, 04:55 AM   #19
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
The OP seems to indicate that landscape is the primary purpose of his camera and I do think for that the K3 is a little better than the 6D.

(shot with a K3 and DA *55 -- single image)
In wich way your picture is better than this one? Do you think that you have more details in your photo?https://www.flickr.com/photos/brockwhittaker/14535212132/in/photolist-q76JGX...vug3cu-pnz1Ki/

or better than this one?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/soniacm/19480768131/in/photolist-qSzThX-sTxHP6...-dJpQWg-pya859

11-14-2015, 05:02 AM   #20
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
In wich way your picture is better than this one? Do you think that you have more details in your photo?https://www.flickr.com/photos/brockwhittaker/14535212132/in/photolist-q76JGX...vug3cu-pnz1Ki/

or better than this one?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/soniacm/19480768131/in/photolist-qSzThX-sTxHP6...-dJpQWg-pya859
The second photo you linked to is clearly an HDR involving several images and blending. It is fine if you like HDR, although I don't really. The first image you show is really nice, but does not involve high dynamic range. My image is not intended to be a demonstration of great art, merely a demonstration of how you can keep highlights and still have shadow detail after processing a single image from a K3. Nothing more or less.

There are many techniques for getting images to demonstrate more dynamic range than the sensor actually has. The two most common are HDR and the use of graduated neutral density filters. They are usable on any camera and it is probably wise to learn them, even if your camera has a lot of DR at base iso, but I will always take as much DR as I can.
11-14-2015, 06:07 AM   #21
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I am always amazed at the dynamic range of the K3. I have always shot with Pentax so I have no information on Cannons. I have always liked the build quality of Pentax and even my Cannon friends agree about the build quality. From some people the biggest benifit of Pentax is the series of superb limited prime lenses. Pentax is releasing a full frame soon too. This is one is a single image taken at night. I exposed for the highlights and used a graduated filter to pull the shadows up in the bottom. The bridge and everything below it was black in the Raw file. I know HDR can do the same thing but I have never been a fan of HDR.

11-14-2015, 08:48 AM   #22
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QuoteOriginally posted by Scorpio71GR Quote
I am always amazed at the dynamic range of the K3. I have always shot with Pentax so I have no information on Cannons. I have always liked the build quality of Pentax and even my Cannon friends agree about the build quality. From some people the biggest benifit of Pentax is the series of superb limited prime lenses. Pentax is releasing a full frame soon too. This is one is a single image taken at night. I exposed for the highlights and used a graduated filter to pull the shadows up in the bottom. The bridge and everything below it was black in the Raw file. I know HDR can do the same thing but I have never been a fan of HDR.

Pentax has some great cameras, with exceptional build quality and superb image quality. But is a niche product. To reach some maturity in the market and to compete with Canon/Nikon it will take another 4-6 years. In this time they have to work hard to:
- come up with another 2-3 full frame cameras to choose from
- new faster/silent lenses than those old FA lenses
- better service worldwide
- convince third party companies to develop accessories for Pentax (lenses, triggers, flashes)
- aggressive marketing

At this moment Pentax is no threat to Canon/Nikon. The real threat for the big boys is Sony for the moment.
As for the photography subjects of the OP, he said "Pictures will be mainly landscape, some architecture and occasionally family photos etc.". Canon 6D is as good as Pentax K-3 II for landscape, architectural work and much better for family photo, weddings, etc.

This guy image is not a HDR picture and you can see the details are pretty impressive. And as much I like limited lenses because they are so compact and very good optically, L class lenses from Canon are simply superb.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/raykwa/14386634548/in/photolist-jCgzPi-r9FWkC-...-qSNdrB-mXKwUc

---------- Post added 11-14-15 at 03:59 PM ----------

QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
My image is not intended to be a demonstration of great art, merely a demonstration of how you can keep highlights and still have shadow detail after processing a single image from a K3. Nothing more or less.
I know why you showed me your picture and you are right up to a point. The OP said that he wants to print large (60cm on the long edge). Looking at your picture I can see that there are no details on the trees behind that road, so you can not print that image bigger than A3.

That being said, I know that you can pull out more details from Pentax K-3 II, but this comes with lose of general details in the area where you recover those details and that translate in smaller prints, or web usage.
11-14-2015, 09:15 AM   #23
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Pentax has some great cameras, with exceptional build quality and superb image quality. But is a niche product. To reach some maturity in the market and to compete with Canon/Nikon it will take another 4-6 years. In this time they have to work hard to:
- come up with another 2-3 full frame cameras to choose from
- new faster/silent lenses than those old FA lenses
- better service worldwide
- convince third party companies to develop accessories for Pentax (lenses, triggers, flashes)
- aggressive marketing

At this moment Pentax is no threat to Canon/Nikon. The real threat for the big boys is Sony for the moment.
As for the photography subjects of the OP, he said "Pictures will be mainly landscape, some architecture and occasionally family photos etc.". Canon 6D is as good as Pentax K-3 II for landscape, architectural work and much better for family photo, weddings, etc.

This guy image is not a HDR picture and you can see the details are pretty impressive. And as much I like limited lenses because they are so compact and very good optically, L class lenses from Canon are simply superb.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/raykwa/14386634548/in/photolist-jCgzPi-r9FWkC-...-qSNdrB-mXKwUc

---------- Post added 11-14-15 at 03:59 PM ----------



I know why you showed me your picture and you are right up to a point. The OP said that he wants to print large (60cm on the long edge). Looking at your picture I can see that there are no details on the trees behind that road, so you can not print that image bigger than A3.

That being said, I know that you can pull out more details from Pentax K-3 II, but this comes with lose of general details in the area where you recover those details and that translate in smaller prints, or web usage.
The 6D and K3 will be able to print exactly the same size. No difference. In high dynamic range situations, you may be able massage your K3 raw files a little more, that is all. But 20 versus 24 megapixels means that assuming you are stopped down and on a tripod at low iso, you won't see a difference in file print size. I have printed plenty of photos bigger than 60cm on the long side with significant detail. I just think you had a bad experience with a K3 II in the past and are happy with your 6D and tend to run down Pentax products as a result. If the OP said he was interested in shooting weddings, I would definitely have said to go for the 6D, but he didn't. I would have a lot tougher time, as I said before, he had indicated a choice between a Sony sensored full frame camera and the K3 II, but once again he didn't. I just happen to think that for his purposes, the K3 II and a 16-85 will probably serve him well.



11-14-2015, 10:40 AM   #24
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
I just think you had a bad experience with a K3 II in the past and are happy with your 6D and tend to run down Pentax products as a result.
You think? All images from my website were shoot with Pentax K-5 II or K-3 II. I was a proud owner of Pentax cameras until recently. But I had the opportunity to test 6D along with K-3 II (at low ISO and high ISO) for a few months. I already proved high ISO capabilities from 6D vs. K-3 II in another topic and when I did that, only a few people involved in that discussion were kind enough to recognize it.

And I agree with everybody, Pentax K-3 II has a little better dynamic range at low ISO (which is irrelevant if you push too hard shadows details and in the same time you want to print large) and is better built than Canon 6D. I would not have changed my K-3 II for Canon 7D Mark II for example. But with 6D is a different story.

But if I want to be honest with myself and be objective when comes to which camera is better, then I must say that 6D is a better camera for general use (landscape, family shots, etc.), and is better in general as a brand because with Canon (or with Nikon if you prefer that brand) you have the possibility to:

- rent lenses
- get fast repair if your camera has some functionality problems
- borrow lenses (or other accessories) from friends
- more than 3 full frame cameras to chose from
- better and a lot more lenses and accessories (branded ones, or from third party companies)
- test lenses (it's not comfortable to pay 1.500$ on a lens without the possibility to see it and test it). Is hard to find available lenses for Pentax at local dealers. Usually you have to preorder a lens because you can't find it in stock

You don't have to like what I'm saying or agree with me, but I suggest you to use both cameras and then we can debate in this regard (K-3 II vs 6D). Until then, if I were you I wouldn't argue with people which had both cameras. How you decide that white chocolate is better than dark chocolate if you haven't taste dark chocolate? You argue with someone else based on what you read on the internet? You are doing the same thing when you argue on K-3 II vs 6D.

But, to end this "debate" on a positive note, take a look at those picture (if you don't have time to read the text) and see how much impact has a proper filter on a image. There is even a Pentax K-5 image in the Xposure Issue 01 Highlights presentation.
http://www.leefilters.com/index.php/camera/camera-resources#xposure

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 11-14-2015 at 11:59 AM.
11-14-2015, 11:54 AM   #25
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
You think? All images from my website were shoot with Pentax K-5 II or K-3 II. I was a proud owner of Pentax cameras until recently. But I had the opportunity to test 6D along with K-3 II (at low ISO and high ISO) for a few months. I already proved high ISO capabilities from 6D vs. K-3 II in another topic and when I did that, only a few people involved in that discussion were kind enough to recognize it.

And I agree with everybody, Pentax K-3 II has a little better dynamic range at low ISO (which is irrelevant if you push too hard shadows details and in the same time you want to print large) and is better built than Canon 6D. I would not have changed my K-3 II for Canon 7D Mark II for example. But with 6D is a different story.

But if I want to be honest with myself and be objective when comes to which camera is better, then I must say that 6D is a better camera for general use (landscape, family shots, etc.), and is better in general as a brand because with Canon (or with Nikon if you prefer that brand) you have the possibility to:

- rent lenses
- get fast repair if your camera has some functionality problems
- borrow lenses (or other accessories) from friends
- more than 3 full frame cameras to chose from
- better and a lot more lenses and accessories (branded ones, or from third party companies)
- test lenses (it's not comfortable to pay 1.500$ on a lens without the possibility to see it and test it). Is hard to find available lenses for Pentax at local dealers. Usually you have to preorder a lens because you can't find it in stock

You don't have to like what I'm saying or agree with me, but I suggest you to use both cameras and then we can debate in this regard (K-3 II vs 6D). Until then, if I were you I wouldn't argue with people which had both cameras. How you decide that white chocolate is better than dark chocolate if you haven't taste dark chocolate? You argue with someone else based on what you read on the internet? You are doing the same thing when you argue on K-3 II vs 6D.

But, to end this "debate" on a positive note, take a look at those picture (if you don't have time to read the text) and see how much impact a proper filter has on a image. There is even a Pentax K-5 II in the Xposure Issue 01 Highlights presentation.
Quick Start Videos, Resources and Brochures for LEE Camera Filters
Interesting.

I would just say that I have played with files quite a bit for a variety of APS-C and full frame cameras on DP Review and Imaging Resource. This does not make me an expert, but it does leave me with an opinion on which cameras are strong and where. As for Canon camera's ergonomics, I have tried several, including the 6D and didn't like them at all -- I suppose I could learn. On the other hand, I find Nikon cameras much more comfortable to use.

Fast repair depends on the country and the situation. Some things are repaired fast in the US, other things not. Sounds as though the situation is pretty dire in Romania (not sure where the OP is based). There are several companies in the US that rent lenses and bodies, if the need should arise.

But, since I am not allowed to have an opinion in this thread, I will humbly bow out...
11-14-2015, 12:30 PM   #26
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Interesting.

I would just say that I have played with files quite a bit for a variety of APS-C and full frame cameras on DP Review and Imaging Resource. This does not make me an expert, but it does leave me with an opinion on which cameras are strong and where. As for Canon camera's ergonomics, I have tried several, including the 6D and didn't like them at all -- I suppose I could learn. On the other hand, I find Nikon cameras much more comfortable to use.

Fast repair depends on the country and the situation. Some things are repaired fast in the US, other things not. Sounds as though the situation is pretty dire in Romania (not sure where the OP is based). There are several companies in the US that rent lenses and bodies, if the need should arise.

But, since I am not allowed to have an opinion in this thread, I will humbly bow out...
It's not that you are not allowed to an opinion, but it is not quite accurate your opinion if you rely on images from DPreview, or DXO or whatever. You have to take both cameras in the field and take an image in the same condition with both cameras and look at them on a large monitor. Let me put it this way, Pentax K5 has a total score of 83 points on DPreview, and Pentax K-3 has the same score. This mean I should buy K5 instead of K-3? Or... I might buy Olympus OM-D E-M1, because it scores an impressive 84 points (more than Canon 6D and K-3).

I put that link in my other comment (the one with Lee filters) because is related to landscape photography and it has articles written by professional photographers. It is educational and it has a lot of superb images taken with 5D Mark II, which is inferior to 6D. And I saw some impressive night landscape images taken at ISO 3200 and above with Canon full frames, so landscape photography is not always about low ISO.

So, let's cut to the chase and talk about the OP request (a camera for landscape, some architecture and occasionally family photos etc."). If you have to choose between a camera that has:
- the same image quality at low ISO as Pentax K-3 II - landscape photography (I'm talking about Canon 6D),
- better shallower depth of field which is useful in family and portraits photos,
- a wider angle which is useful with tilt/shift lenses in architectural photography,
but at the same time has better image quality at high ISO, better Af, a lot more and better lenses and accessories to choose from, you will still choose Pentax K-3 II because it has better built quality, a little more dynamic range at low ISO, built in image stabilisation and 1/8000 shutter speed?

I paid 200$ more for the 6D. And if I look at lenses price... Canon 24mm f2.8 IS USM lens is 100$ cheaper than DA15mm f4 Limited. So, for this combo is only 100$ difference in price.

And since you mentioned that you like to read reviews online, take a look at both (Canon and Pentax) lenses score. The best Pentax lens tested by DXO has a total score of 20 points (DA* 55mm f1.4) http://www.dxomark.com/Lenses/Ratings

And yes, Pentax full frame will probably be a very good option for landscape photographers (due to the 36 or 42mp sensor), but it will be bigger than K-3 II, heavier and if you take a look at D-FA 70-200mm...here goes away the advantage of Pentax compactness. 70-200mm is a massive and heavy lens and it costs more than Canon 70-200mm f2.8L IS USM lens (or the equivalent lens from Nikon). If you can not afford to buy it along with a good computer that can manage big files...tough luck. There is no other option for at least a year or so.

You have to think very carefully if Pentax is a better choice for the next 4-6 years than Canon/Nikon/Sony and not because of the image quality which is very good, but for the other important things that does not come with the full frame or APS-C body:
- more or better lenses than competition,
- better or at least the same service
- better visibility in the market
- support from third party companies
- better or at least the same Af and video
- better or at least the same second hand market (for lenses, flashes, etc.)
-etc.

In US everything is cheaper than in Europe and it is quite a large market. You are lucky. But in Europe people complain that Pentax is not so present in stores, unfortunately.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 11-16-2015 at 02:15 AM.
11-15-2015, 01:06 PM   #27
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
It's not that you are not allowed to an opinion, but it is not quite accurate your opinion if you rely on images from DPreview, or DXO or whatever.
that would be wrong.

you must have never taken a science course in school? because the object is to control variables... dpreview shoots the same scene in all of their tests, while you are introducing variables with your links to random images.

you proved nothing.

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I might buy Olympus OM-D E-M1, because it scores an impressive 84 points (more than Canon 6D and K-3).
what? the olympus om-d e-m1 has an overall score of 73, vs. 80 for the k3ii... it's weak, like all m4/3 cameras are.

when people stoop to posting misinformation, i stop reading.
Attached Images
 

Last edited by osv; 11-15-2015 at 01:11 PM.
11-16-2015, 12:50 AM   #28
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
that would be wrong.

you must have never taken a science course in school? because the object is to control variables... dpreview shoots the same scene in all of their tests, while you are introducing variables with your links to random images.

you proved nothing.
Have you ever heard professionals photographers saying the magic words "ok, we saw the lab tests, now let's see how it handle in the real word"?

QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
what? the olympus om-d e-m1 has an overall score of 73, vs. 80 for the k3ii... it's weak, like all m4/3 cameras are.
So, basically we have DXO which say that OM-D has 73 points vs K-3 which has 80 points and we have DPreview were OM-D is in the same category as K-3 and has 84 points while K-3 has 83 points. But you don't have to trust what I'm saying, just read the reviews.

OM-D review Olympus OM-D E-M1 Review: Digital Photography Review

K-3 review Pentax K-3 Review: Digital Photography Review

So, which site is a good source of science information for you? You decide what camera has better image quality based on DXO or DPreview? Thanks for remind me about science courses, but I prefer real tests done in the field, by me. And in my eyes Canon 6D has a better image quality overall.

And before everybody starts to think that I'm trolling, just for one second stop judging me and read all my comments. Have you ever read something bad that I wrote about Pentax? If I'm looking at my old comments that I've written in the article from romanian online photo magazines where Pentax is seen as a camera that is not up to compete with Canon/Nikon, then maybe you will see how a truly pentaxian looks like.

But when a professional photographer like Ed (from Photouniverse) says that Pentax it's not reliable for shooting weddings no one said anything and everybody seems to agree with him because he is a pentaxian and a professional photographer. Nice...

QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
when people stoop to posting misinformation, i stop reading.
Please stop reading and start shooting, ok?

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 11-16-2015 at 03:03 AM.
11-16-2015, 02:59 AM   #29
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I take landscapes with the pentax K D20 and the K3 with the 16-50 mm f2.8 lens and the f 4.0 18-70 lens and and print to 60 x 50cm on a regular basis. The results are superb.
11-16-2015, 03:07 AM   #30
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rob1000 Quote
I take landscapes with the pentax K D20 and the K3 with the 16-50 mm f2.8 lens and the f 4.0 18-70 lens and and print to 60 x 50cm on a regular basis. The results are superb.
Have you seen me arguing with you on that? I said many times that image quality from Pentax cameras is very good.

Last edited by Dan Rentea; 11-16-2015 at 03:26 AM.
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