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11-16-2015, 01:03 PM   #46
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I am actually going to assume that the OP is US based or at least somewhere where Pentax has decent support and isn't priced way above Canon/Nikon. If he is based in South Africa or Romania or India, then that needs be factored into the equation, but it certainly wasn't mentioned by the OP. There is a real tendency to insert ourselves into the debate. "I like to shoot weddings and rock concerts and 'x' camera works better for those, and so that is the best camera." However, the OP mentioned specifically that he wants to shoot landscape and maybe some snap shots of his family. That's it. No mention of professional photography, coal mines, rock concerts or weddings.

As such, any one of these cameras probably would be adequate.

Odd to bring DP Reviews "scientific" score into a comparison when it is hardly scientific and folks quibble with their ratings all of the time. At least DXO Mark tells you exactly what goes into their score and you can understand it totally.

11-16-2015, 01:04 PM   #47
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QuoteOriginally posted by ChristianRock Quote
I was quoting online prices. Everybody has access to that.

And I repeat. There's an apples and oranges comparison here because the prices are substantially different for the two setups.



I did read all the comments. And I was replying to the OP - not to you. But you took it personally like I was replying to your comments. I was not.

Finally, the 6D+24-105 is $2K. K-3II+16-85 is just over 1300 dollars at current Amazon prices. I don't find that to be "similar enough" but if the OP thinks 700 dollars is nothing, then he should just go and get the more expensive camera and be happy with it! Obviously the setup that costs over 50% more should have some sort of performance advantage. You would at least hope so...

Now IF the OP lives in a country where they cost basically the same, then obviously he should go for the Canon setup, because that means the Pentax is just way overpriced in that market and has no reason to even be there at those prices...

I was also quoting online prices, but if you live in USA then you have to add some taxes and it's not worth buy it from my local dealer. Is the same for me if I want to buy from B$H or Adorama (if I add taxes and transportation costs it's not worth it). Sorry, everybody was throwing rocks on me and I thought you do also. Please accept my sincere apologies.

My thoughts exactly, comparing these two cameras/ or lenses is like comparing oranges to apples.
11-16-2015, 01:22 PM - 1 Like   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
I was also quoting online prices, but if you live in USA then you have to add some taxes and it's not worth buy it from my local dealer. Is the same for me if I want to buy from B$H or Adorama (if I add taxes and transportation costs it's not worth it). Sorry, everybody was throwing rocks on me and I thought you do also. Please accept my sincere apologies.
If I buy from BHphoto I don't pay taxes and I usually get it shipped for free.

It would be nice for the OP to come and clear some things, or to just say "nevermind, I already bought a <<<>>>> camera" or "I decided not to buy anything".

QuoteQuote:
My thoughts exactly, comparing these two cameras/ or lenses is like comparing oranges to apples.
And you found out which one was best for your needs so if you're happy with it, that's good

But I hope this thread helped clarify some things. One of them is that there's no rhyme or reason for DPReview's image quality ratings (advertisement - money talks? their personal non-objective preferences?) and DXO's are much more reliable. Finally, there's other things to consider - print or view size, and especially intended use, when shopping for a camera.
11-16-2015, 02:48 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Is the OP live in USA?
you really don't think that he lives in romania do you? good grief.

the next time that you make false claims about pricing, tell the forum that what you say isn't relevant to anyone reading it.

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
Extras from DPreview on OM-D E-M1 camera. Based on what DPreview say and if I were you I might think that you are misleading the audience. It's easier to accuse me than read the reviews. But it's ok, I don't mind.
we can see that you don't read the links that you post.

you still don't understand how a dpr camera review is different than a dxo sensor rating, and why it matters.

how about if i make it real simple, and post a photo, proving why your m4/3 camera doesn't belong in this thread:

Attached Images
 
11-16-2015, 03:46 PM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
you really don't think that he lives in romania do you? good grief.
What??? Have you look at a world map recently? There is a lot more than USA on this planet. He may be living in Russia, or Germany... Why everything must be related to USA and B&H or Amazon? If he lives in Europe he can benefit from the prices from romanian stores without paying international taxes.

And by the way, Romania is a very beautiful country. You're just being rude.

QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
the next time that you make false claims about pricing, tell the forum that what you say isn't relevant to anyone reading it.
Let's make a deal. If I made false claims about pricing I will give you my camera and extra 500$ bonus. But if I prove that I'm telling the truth (I can scan the bills from both cameras) you give me your camera and public apologies. Do we have a deal?



QuoteOriginally posted by osv Quote
we can see that you don't read the links that you post.

you still don't understand how a dpr camera review is different than a dxo sensor rating, and why it matters.

how about if i make it real simple, and post a photo, proving why your m4/3 camera doesn't belong in this thread:
Actually I never said that I don't read labs and online reviews. I do, but only because when I put my hands on a camera I can focus on those weak points mentioned in those online reviews.

And please give me a break with this this image. You didn't understand anything about why I mentioned OM-D in this topic. Let's all light a few bulbs in a room and take high ISO pictures of a cardboard.

How about make it real simple and post a photo proving why K-3 II doesn't belong in this high ISO test of yours? So, please stop talking nonsense because with that image you only prove that you don't know anything about real life shooting. And this thread isn't about high ISO if I remember corectly.


Last edited by Dan Rentea; 11-16-2015 at 03:59 PM.
11-16-2015, 04:39 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by TuxAG Quote
Thanks for all the fast responses!
I've been taking 35mm until now (Minolta) - so am used to a compact body (although quite heavy)
What Minolta gear were you shooting with? If it was a Maxxum/Dynax/Alpha body then, you should also be considering a Sony Alpha body as well so you can keep using your lenses.
11-16-2015, 04:59 PM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
What??? Have you look at a world map recently? There is a lot more than USA on this planet.
this forum appears to be hosted in texas? 173.193.44.49

and last time i looked, it's owned and run by americans, not europeans.

want to guess where most of the forum traffic comes from?

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
But if I prove that I'm telling the truth (I can scan the bills from both cameras)
i already posted the pricing, it's over.

QuoteOriginally posted by Dan Rentea Quote
And please give me a break with this this image. You didn't understand anything about why I mentioned OM-D in this topic. Let's all light a few bulbs in a room and take high ISO pictures of a cardboard.
you don't understand why it matters, and you don't want to learn.

we already knew that.
11-16-2015, 06:03 PM   #53
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I nominate Osv as Secretary of State.

11-16-2015, 06:06 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by clackers Quote
I nominate Osv as Secretary of State.
For what state?
11-16-2015, 06:13 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by normhead Quote
For what state?

State of Anxiety, I think.


The coat-of-arms is a blue rabbit frothing at the mouth, grey background.
11-16-2015, 06:40 PM   #56
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I feel as it is time to comment again A lot happened here in the last days – thanks to all people taking time.
For some clarification: Exactly, U.S. – however I am next month in England and afterwards in Germany, so if a product should actually be significant cheaper in Europe, there is definitely the possibility to get it there.
I have the possibility to get the 6D with the lens for around 1600-1700, the K3 ii with lens is 1400 – therefore I said that they are similar enough in price. For ergonomics, as for now I only had the 6D in my hands – planning to go around Thanksgiving to B&H to see if I like the “feeling” of the Pentax. For some reason I wasn’t a fan of the Nikon’s I hold in my hands before, no big bias just an impression. As outlined on the second post I currently tend towards the Pentax, as I could afford more accessories. Additionally I liked the print comparison linked here. However as I am still open towards both I am going to monitor if either drops significantly in price at Cyber Monday…
I used dpreview to look at the ISO Camera comparisons and were very pleased by the noise until 800/1600 – which looks good enough for me considering pictures are almost entirely taken outside. However Canon’s Low Light performance looked superior to me – the main reason the 6D is still in the race.
Tilt and shift lenses are outside of my planned acquirements for some years to come...the Minolta gear can be ignored, too. (Is designated to be a present to my brother
As a side information, as I am going to shoot in RAW the internal JPEG quality is not relevant either.
So thanks again for the different comments, I value to see different sides and arguments!
Best greetings
11-17-2015, 04:24 AM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by TuxAG Quote
I feel as it is time to comment again A lot happened here in the last days – thanks to all people taking time.
For some clarification: Exactly, U.S. – however I am next month in England and afterwards in Germany, so if a product should actually be significant cheaper in Europe, there is definitely the possibility to get it there.
I have the possibility to get the 6D with the lens for around 1600-1700, the K3 ii with lens is 1400 – therefore I said that they are similar enough in price. For ergonomics, as for now I only had the 6D in my hands – planning to go around Thanksgiving to B&H to see if I like the “feeling” of the Pentax. For some reason I wasn’t a fan of the Nikon’s I hold in my hands before, no big bias just an impression. As outlined on the second post I currently tend towards the Pentax, as I could afford more accessories. Additionally I liked the print comparison linked here. However as I am still open towards both I am going to monitor if either drops significantly in price at Cyber Monday…
I used dpreview to look at the ISO Camera comparisons and were very pleased by the noise until 800/1600 – which looks good enough for me considering pictures are almost entirely taken outside. However Canon’s Low Light performance looked superior to me – the main reason the 6D is still in the race.
Tilt and shift lenses are outside of my planned acquirements for some years to come...the Minolta gear can be ignored, too. (Is designated to be a present to my brother
As a side information, as I am going to shoot in RAW the internal JPEG quality is not relevant either.
So thanks again for the different comments, I value to see different sides and arguments!
Best greetings
Nice of you to come back and post your thoughts regarding your future acquisition. I forgot to say one thing (or not...I don't remember) My first Pentax camera (a K-5 II) went to some pretty heavy conditions (waves and sand from beaches, snow and cold temperatures, etc.) without letting me down. I haven't tested K-3 II on heavy conditions, but I had the same feeling as with K-5 II, that it can't be broken by bad weather. With Canon on the other hand I tend to protect a little the camera because I know it can't take the same "abuse" as Pentax did.

So, if you plan to photograph a lot in heavy conditions...Pentax K-3 II is built like a tank. You said something that is all I wanted to hear. Quote: planning to go around Thanksgiving to B&H to see if I like the “feeling” of the Pentax. You will know what camera to choose between those two after you put your hands on both cameras. The "feeling" of a camera is the very first thing that matter when you choose between 2 cameras.

Hope you will come back with some impressions after you will buy a camera, no matter the brand.
11-17-2015, 04:53 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by TuxAG Quote
I feel as it is time to comment again A lot happened here in the last days – thanks to all people taking time.
For some clarification: Exactly, U.S. – however I am next month in England and afterwards in Germany, so if a product should actually be significant cheaper in Europe, there is definitely the possibility to get it there.
I have the possibility to get the 6D with the lens for around 1600-1700, the K3 ii with lens is 1400 – therefore I said that they are similar enough in price. For ergonomics, as for now I only had the 6D in my hands – planning to go around Thanksgiving to B&H to see if I like the “feeling” of the Pentax. For some reason I wasn’t a fan of the Nikon’s I hold in my hands before, no big bias just an impression. As outlined on the second post I currently tend towards the Pentax, as I could afford more accessories. Additionally I liked the print comparison linked here. However as I am still open towards both I am going to monitor if either drops significantly in price at Cyber Monday…
I used dpreview to look at the ISO Camera comparisons and were very pleased by the noise until 800/1600 – which looks good enough for me considering pictures are almost entirely taken outside. However Canon’s Low Light performance looked superior to me – the main reason the 6D is still in the race.
Tilt and shift lenses are outside of my planned acquirements for some years to come...the Minolta gear can be ignored, too. (Is designated to be a present to my brother
As a side information, as I am going to shoot in RAW the internal JPEG quality is not relevant either.
So thanks again for the different comments, I value to see different sides and arguments!
Best greetings
Looking at Amazon pricing, looks like you could get the K3 II for just under 800 dollars and the 16-85 for 530, while the 6D with 24-105 was 1800 (both new pricing). I personally think you would be satisfied with either and I would recommend going on ergonomics/feel as much as anything. If you hate the way the camera feels, you may be able to get used to it over time, but you'll be less likely to take it with you.

The biggest things going for Pentax are sensor stabilization and all the cool things that can do (pixel shift/astro tracing/composition shift), really tough bodies with good sealing both on the bodies and the lenses (I don't think the 6D is as tough a camera), and the possibility of some tiny gems available for purchase in the future (aka the limited primes). Good luck with your decision, I am sure either camera will work well and be good to grow with.
11-17-2015, 06:57 AM   #59
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I just bought the K3 II, and though I did not consider the Sony EOS 6D, I took a hard look at the full frame mirrorless Sony Alpha A7. It really came down to shake reduction and lens choice/cost for me.

I really like the Sony but with no shake reduction available in camera, I chose the K3II. I am 57 years old and my hands are just not as steady as they were 20, 30 years ago. I also think I will be able to come up with a three lens system for around 1400 dollars or less that will fit my needs to a T. I am not so sure I could do that with the Sony.

Unless you have 5 to 10 grand to drop on a camera and system, there will be compromises no matter what you choose. I have a nice old Koni-Omega film camera and this is my 1st big buy ( for me ) digital camera. I did not take it lightly. I wanted a camera that would provide me with great outdoor shots/prints and give me the instant gratification of a DLSR I got what I wanted, and no matter which you choose, they are both great cameras at their price point.
11-17-2015, 07:02 AM   #60
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QuoteOriginally posted by JamesDCrockett Quote
I just bought the K3 II, and though I did not consider the Sony EOS 6D, I took a hard look at the full frame mirrorless Sony Alpha A7. It really came down to shake reduction and lens choice/cost for me.

I really like the Sony but with no shake reduction available in camera, I chose the K3II. I am 57 years old and my hands are just not as steady as they were 20, 30 years ago. I also think I will be able to come up with a three lens system for around 1400 dollars or less that will fit my needs to a T. I am not so sure I could do that with the Sony.

Unless you have 5 to 10 grand to drop on a camera and system, there will be compromises no matter what you choose. I have a nice old Koni-Omega film camera and this is my 1st big buy ( for me ) digital camera. I did not take it lightly. I wanted a camera that would provide me with great outdoor shots/prints and give me the instant gratification of a DLSR I got what I wanted, and no matter which you choose, they are both great cameras at their price point.
Fixed:
I just bought the K3 II, and though I did not consider the Cannon EOS 6D, I took a hard look at the full frame mirrorless Sony Alpha A7. It really came down to shake reduction and lens choice/cost for me.
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