KP and K70 successors ?

Leumas · 11-02-2019, 01:08 PM

Originally posted by monochrome

It isn’t really a high degree of processing and loss of detail. In practice the loss of detail is indiscernible. @Rondec has shown this on his many K-1ll posts.

Curiously, another (hostile to Pentax) review site praised the noise performance without criticizing the ‘academic’ loss of detail when reviewing KP. @Class_A only objects to the inability to deselect Noise Reduction, not to any actual visible loss of detail. For almost all of us the noise processing is a boon.

Cameraville did a K1-II to K1 comparison and the K1 was noticeably sharper

**monochrome** · 11-02-2019, 02:42 PM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by Leumas

Cameraville did a K1-II to K1 comparison and the K1 was noticeably sharper

Not to me.

We don’t control post-processing on hostile websites. IMO there is no discernible difference in like-processed images. The objection is academic.

**Rondec** · 11-02-2019, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by Leumas

Cameraville did a K1-II to K1 comparison and the K1 was noticeably sharper

I own both and as I have said before, I would challenge anyone to look at the "Post Your K-1 Photos Here" thread and identify which of my posts were with a K-1 and which with a K-1 II. You just can't do it. You might be able to do it looking at the images at 200 percent and shooting at iso 3200 or something like that, but real life situations -- making prints, posting to normal web sizes -- you aren't going to see a difference except that the K-1 II images have less noise above iso 800 and a tiny bit less shadow detail.

taktoon · 11-02-2019, 03:15 PM - **1 Like**

With posting on internet and making regular prints I can't see de difference between my K-70 and K-1. So I am sure that in practice the difference of resolved details between K-1 and K-1 II doesn't exist for me. Still I think that more than 99% of people don't care about pixel sized details when they see photo.

Leumas · 11-02-2019, 06:53 PM

Originally posted by Rondec

I own both and as I have said before, I would challenge anyone to look at the "Post Your K-1 Photos Here" thread and identify which of my posts were with a K-1 and which with a K-1 II. You just can't do it. You might be able to do it looking at the images at 200 percent and shooting at iso 3200 or something like that, but real life situations -- making prints, posting to normal web sizes -- you aren't going to see a difference except that the K-1 II images have less noise above iso 800 and a tiny bit less shadow detail.

Well if we are just going off that, my 8MP 15yr old Olympus looks just fine online too...not really a valid point. I'd say sure probably won't notice it. I do however understand those who don't like it when the next generation of camera loses some detail over it's predecessor.

ecostigny · 11-02-2019, 07:09 PM

Originally posted by Leumas

Well if we are just going off that, my 8MP 15yr old Olympus looks just fine online too...not really a valid point. I'd say sure probably won't notice it. I do however understand those who don't like it when the next generation of camera loses some detail over it's predecessor.

I will admit that I paused when I first read about the loss of detail due to the increased noise reduction. I'm also not above pixel peeping myself. However, I am also not certain as to whether the loss of detail is detectable in most situations where we share our photos--certainly not on many web sites.

**Rondec** · 11-03-2019, 03:24 AM

Originally posted by Leumas

Well if we are just going off that, my 8MP 15yr old Olympus looks just fine online too...not really a valid point. I'd say sure probably won't notice it. I do however understand those who don't like it when the next generation of camera loses some detail over it's predecessor.

You didn't read my full statement apparently. You do not notice any issues with the K-1 II when you are shooting it and processing the files. Except that there is less noise above iso 800. If you shot a K-1 and K-1 II image side by side on a tripod at above iso 800 and looked at the images at 100 percent, you might be able to see a difference in detail. Only the K-1 images would have more noise in them and once you take care of that, there would be no difference.

I am totally fine if people don't like the accelerator on principle, but they really magnify it into something it isn't.

---------- Post added 11-03-19 at 05:48 AM ----------

This is the sort of performance I am seeing with the K-1 II at iso 6400:

and a pretty heavy crop:

Not wonderful photos, but I hope it demonstrates that the K-1 II does not just mash detail above iso 800, which is what is implied by some folks.

reh321 · 11-03-2019, 10:59 AM

Originally posted by Leumas

I do however understand those who don't like it when the next generation of camera loses some detail over it's predecessor.

If it does, and that is a big "IF", we can talk about it then.

pts1958 · 12-08-2019, 05:48 AM

To give an anwer to the first question, we are waiting for the new apsc camera and hope is that theseone will be THE product we're waiting for ! A K1 whith APSC and better autofocus, 10 ips, big iso and so on !

fsge · 12-09-2019, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by pts1958

To give an anwer to the first question, we are waiting for the new apsc camera and hope is that theseone will be THE product we're waiting for ! A K1 whith APSC and better autofocus, 10 ips, big iso and so on !

Also some of these Knew features would be easy to implement in a lower grade body next year to replace K70 which is significantly older than KP...

reh321 · 01-07-2020, 10:00 AM

Originally posted by fsge

Also some of these Knew features would be easy to implement in a lower grade body next year to replace K70 which is significantly older than KP...

There is no reason to think that Pentax plans to keep three "APS-C" lines - I still expect to see one entry that consists of K-70 and KP melded together, and then the new features melded into it.

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11-02-2019, 01:08 PM	#46
Leumas Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 454	Originally posted by monochrome It isn’t really a *high* degree of processing and loss of detail. In practice the loss of detail is indiscernible. @Rondec has shown this on his many K-1ll posts. Curiously, another (hostile to Pentax) review site praised the noise performance without criticizing the ‘academic’ loss of detail when reviewing KP. @Class_A only objects to the inability to deselect Noise Reduction, not to any actual visible loss of detail. For almost all of us the noise processing is a boon. Cameraville did a K1-II to K1 comparison and the K1 was noticeably sharper

11-02-2019, 02:42 PM - 1 Like	#47
monochrome Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Working From Home Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 26,276	Originally posted by Leumas Cameraville did a K1-II to K1 comparison and the K1 was noticeably sharper Not to me. We don’t control post-processing on hostile websites. IMO there is no discernible difference in like-processed images. The objection is academic.

11-02-2019, 02:50 PM	#48
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by Leumas Cameraville did a K1-II to K1 comparison and the K1 was noticeably sharper I own both and as I have said before, I would challenge anyone to look at the "Post Your K-1 Photos Here" thread and identify which of my posts were with a K-1 and which with a K-1 II. You just can't do it. You might be able to do it looking at the images at 200 percent and shooting at iso 3200 or something like that, but real life situations -- making prints, posting to normal web sizes -- you aren't going to see a difference except that the K-1 II images have less noise above iso 800 and a tiny bit less shadow detail.

11-02-2019, 03:15 PM - 1 Like	#49
taktoon Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2015 Posts: 605	With posting on internet and making regular prints I can't see de difference between my K-70 and K-1. So I am sure that in practice the difference of resolved details between K-1 and K-1 II doesn't exist for me. Still I think that more than 99% of people don't care about pixel sized details when they see photo.

11-02-2019, 06:53 PM	#50
Leumas Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2016 Posts: 454	Originally posted by Rondec I own both and as I have said before, I would challenge anyone to look at the "Post Your K-1 Photos Here" thread and identify which of my posts were with a K-1 and which with a K-1 II. You just can't do it. You might be able to do it looking at the images at 200 percent and shooting at iso 3200 or something like that, but real life situations -- making prints, posting to normal web sizes -- you aren't going to see a difference except that the K-1 II images have less noise above iso 800 and a tiny bit less shadow detail. Well if we are just going off that, my 8MP 15yr old Olympus looks just fine online too...not really a valid point. I'd say sure probably won't notice it. I do however understand those who don't like it when the next generation of camera loses some detail over it's predecessor.

11-02-2019, 07:09 PM	#51
ecostigny Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2017 Location: Branford, CT Posts: 561	Originally posted by Leumas Well if we are just going off that, my 8MP 15yr old Olympus looks just fine online too...not really a valid point. I'd say sure probably won't notice it. I do however understand those who don't like it when the next generation of camera loses some detail over it's predecessor. I will admit that I paused when I first read about the loss of detail due to the increased noise reduction. I'm also not above pixel peeping myself. However, I am also not certain as to whether the loss of detail is detectable in most situations where we share our photos--certainly not on many web sites.

11-03-2019, 03:24 AM	#52
Rondec Loyal Site Supporter Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Gladys, Virginia Photos: Gallery Posts: 27,663	Originally posted by Leumas Well if we are just going off that, my 8MP 15yr old Olympus looks just fine online too...not really a valid point. I'd say sure probably won't notice it. I do however understand those who don't like it when the next generation of camera loses some detail over it's predecessor. You didn't read my full statement apparently. You do not notice any issues with the K-1 II when you are shooting it and processing the files. Except that there is less noise above iso 800. If you shot a K-1 and K-1 II image side by side on a tripod at above iso 800 and looked at the images at 100 percent, you might be able to see a difference in detail. Only the K-1 images would have more noise in them and once you take care of that, there would be no difference. I am totally fine if people don't like the accelerator on principle, but they really magnify it into something it isn't. ---------- Post added 11-03-19 at 05:48 AM ---------- This is the sort of performance I am seeing with the K-1 II at iso 6400: and a pretty heavy crop: Not wonderful photos, but I hope it demonstrates that the K-1 II does not just mash detail above iso 800, which is what is implied by some folks.

11-03-2019, 10:59 AM	#53
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,183	Originally posted by Leumas I do however understand those who don't like it when the next generation of camera loses some detail over it's predecessor. If it does, and that is a big "IF", we can talk about it then.

12-08-2019, 05:48 AM	#54
pts1958 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Orleans (France) Posts: 103	To give an anwer to the first question, we are waiting for the new apsc camera and hope is that theseone will be THE product we're waiting for ! A K1 whith APSC and better autofocus, 10 ips, big iso and so on !

12-09-2019, 12:57 AM	#55
fsge Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Genf Posts: 1,138	Originally posted by pts1958 To give an anwer to the first question, we are waiting for the new apsc camera and hope is that theseone will be THE product we're waiting for ! A K1 whith APSC and better autofocus, 10 ips, big iso and so on ! Also some of these Knew features would be easy to implement in a lower grade body next year to replace K70 which is significantly older than KP...

01-07-2020, 10:00 AM	#56
reh321 Pentaxian Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: South Bend, IN, USA Photos: Gallery \| Albums Posts: 23,183	Originally posted by fsge Also some of these Knew features would be easy to implement in a lower grade body next year to replace K70 which is significantly older than KP... There is no reason to think that Pentax plans to keep three "APS-C" lines - I still expect to see one entry that consists of K-70 and KP melded together, and then the new features melded into it.