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06-23-2011, 07:19 AM   #211
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
No.
How many old school SLR users had a decent rangefinder as well?

Bid difference, the range finders could take photos as good as their DSLRs. Pentax Q won't come close to a DSLR simply because of its tiny sensor. Its competing against point and shoots in terms of image quality and there are smaller more compact point and shoots. Those things will also be more compact as the lenses hide into the body where as with the Pentax Q it pokes out all the time. Then theres the price... really... $800?

06-23-2011, 07:20 AM   #212
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QuoteOriginally posted by steve1307 Quote
So ..... ogl .... 20+ pretty much identical posts today here and another dozen or so at dpreview, for a camera you probably haven't even seen or held.
Not to mention countless others in your own NC-1 thread over the past 6 months.

Aren't you getting bored repeating yourself? Nothing else better to do?
I understand everyone is entitled to an opinion and I agree with you on some technical level but this is getting pretty high on my SPAM meter

Not sure why Pentax came up with this design, and must admit that I'm not really interested to buy into this system.... but before making any statements I will have a look at it in real life at PMA this weekend, and wait to see some proper sample shots and the real pricing.
+1 Steve... and here I was thinking my post up at #204 was being rude....
06-23-2011, 07:28 AM   #213
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QuoteOriginally posted by Verglace Quote
According to engadget, this thing costs $800... that's more tha a K-r. A nex is only ever slightly larger, and has a larger sensor. Heck a K-r is cheaper likely takes better photos. This thing is going to be the laughing stock of the online camera community.
The K-r will no doubt produce better images than the Q (It better... I own one).

However, you are forgetting about the size of this thing. In urban Japan, the average living space is 100 sq ft room, 40 square feet kitchen, bathroom, and tiny closets. We are talking about a nation that is (maybe was...) becoming denser and denser. There is no way in hell Japanese consumers would buy a FF+FF lenses and keep that in their tiny abode.
06-23-2011, 07:28 AM   #214
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Form factor matters, and the necessitates a repeat image:

Which shows what, that it is too big to be carried around with a bunch of keys?

Seriously, it's only marginally smaller than all the other ILC offerings like Panasonic GF3, Olympus E-PM1, Sony NEX-C3, etc.



But you got to give credit to Pentax marketing, only they decided to publish photos with size comparison to keys. Good thinking.

06-23-2011, 07:31 AM   #215
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Echoing what many have said ... $800!? I'm completely confused as to who the target market is.

Buyers looking for IQ can pay less for the K-r. We haven't seen photo comparisons yet but based on sensor size I'm confident the K-r has much better IQ and low light performance. If Pentax managed to somehow make the Q sensor better than APS-C they'd be announcing their engineering miracle.

Buyers looking for compactness can pay half for the Canon S95. Looking at paper specs the Q body is exactly (within 2 mm in all dimensions) the same size as the S95. The S95 lens seems roughly equivalent to the Q prime plus Q zoom.

Maybe the market is buyers looking for a "gadget". I know those of us in North America don't always understand the Japanese marketplace, but it seems to me that only uninformed buyers would shell out anywhere near $800 for the Q. If I want a camera I can hang from my keychain there's the S95. Will enough buyers pay an extra $400 for a white case?
06-23-2011, 07:33 AM   #216
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QuoteOriginally posted by steve1307 Quote
So ..... ogl .... 20+ pretty much identical posts today here and another dozen or so at dpreview, for a camera you probably haven't even seen or held.
.
Don't like - no need to read...

The problem is that PENTAX Q is Pentax EVIL system for years...
We won't see APS-C mirrorless system or K-mount EVIL.

I'm outraged by Pentax Q and HOYA's view at mirrorless system.


http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20110623_455350.html
have a look at this presentation...
it's Pentax view at EVIL system...I'm depressed
06-23-2011, 07:35 AM   #217
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote
The problem is that PENTAX Q is Pentax EVIL system for years...
We won't see APS-C mirrorless system or K-mount EVIL.

I'm outraged by Pentax Q and HOYA's view at mirrorless system.
And where are you getting this from, given everything else we've heard indicates there will be an APS-C EVIL coming out later this year?
06-23-2011, 07:36 AM   #218
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QuoteOriginally posted by UdonUdon Quote
There is no way in hell Japanese consumers would buy a FF+FF lenses and keep that in their tiny abode.
Japan is not Lilliput, dude... It's compact living, not shoebox living. This is the home market of Nikon and Canon, the birthplace of modern consumer electronics, they can squeeze a good few cameras into those apartments.

06-23-2011, 07:36 AM   #219
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QuoteOriginally posted by UdonUdon Quote
Actually, I am pretty sure they would not. How many people who already own the K-5 (maybe even K-x/r) would be willing to shell out a few grands for a body with a small boost in IQ, small boost in ISO, easier wide-angle, more difficult telephoto, decreased fps, and bulkier body? Also, how many people are willing to ditch their APS-C DA lenses for a FF? Lastly, how many people unfamiliar with Pentax would be willing to choose a Pentax FF over Canon or Nikon?

I am willing to bet that the Pentax Q won't sell too well in the U.S., but it may be a hit in Japan. A Pentax FF stands no chance in both the U.S. and Japan.

Actually, I think quite many people would be willing to spend some serious money for a FF Pentax camera. Mr. JSherman999 aka Moving_Comfort has a poll on Nikon DSLR forum in Dpreview where he is calling ex-pentaxians to give their reasons why they have jumped ship to Nikon, and itīs shocking how many people say that the only reason they go Nikon is because Pentax has no FF in sight.

This has been my experience as well. A lot of Canikon people are interested in Pentax, but the lack of FF as an upgrade path puts them off. Pentax glass is the best there is, and no doubt K-5 is a very good camera. Still itīs not even near the IQ and performance of say, D700, which you can have second hand at almost same price.

I donīt know why people are so negative towards FF??? Is there something scary in that? Does it make your APS-C cameras obsolete? If Pentax can put out a TOY camera with new lens system and five new lenses from scratch, then making a FF body and few lenses on that shouldnīt be a problem.

There is a very good thread going on where you can peek at some of the wonders of the FF: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/non-pentax-cameras-canon-nikon-etc/110876...-thoughts.html

This has become one of my favourite threads lately.
06-23-2011, 07:36 AM   #220
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
No.

They'll buy both.

That's the strategy here.
With unlimited funds, sure; they'll buy both. With limited funds, as most consumers have, they'll buy neither and get a 20-umpteen-mexapixel P&S unless you can convince them that at $299 this is a better camera.

Maybe Pentax can.
06-23-2011, 07:37 AM   #221
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QuoteOriginally posted by Verglace Quote
Bid difference, the range finders could take photos as good as their DSLRs. Pentax Q won't come close to a DSLR simply because of its tiny sensor. Its competing against point and shoots in terms of image quality and there are smaller more compact point and shoots. Those things will also be more compact as the lenses hide into the body where as with the Pentax Q it pokes out all the time. Then theres the price... really... $800?
Point taken, but RF's faded considerably in the AF area because their zone focusing particulars could not keep up with the accuracy of SLR's. I have 3 RF's I still use for film! (Olympus 35 RC, Canonet, and Rollei 35S). There are and have always been IQ issues with RF's compared to SLR. The latter is bigger and bulkier but can take shots that an RF could not dream of (sports, wildlife, etc.). The sheer versatility of the SLR is what made its design the dominant one in advanced camera markets.

What I am saying is that there were quality shooting compromises between RF's and SLR's, and that split market is not dissimilar to what Pentax is doing with the Q. I am sure there are substantial numbers of Leica M9 users who also bought into the S2 system.

If you want compact now the IQ difference is in sensor size. You get that with P&S regardless and most DSLR users I know have a P&S somewhere in their array. There are still tradeoffs now.

I think the Q lenses are tiny, tiny, tiny compared to M43 and NEX. The whole package is substantially smaller than the other mirrorless offerings. It's the most souped-up P&S on the market and there is space for such a product.

But the price....Ouch!
06-23-2011, 07:37 AM   #222
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Look that lens size difference!

The circumference of the mount alone tells the story.
Yes, it tells the story of how the size of the Q mount lenses is ridiculous. Hell, I can mount a C-mount 35mm on the NEX that's not much bigger.

Let's say I buy a Q system... How do I carry lenses? In my pockets, getting banged around with change and keys? Um, no. So I need a bag or a case. Poof! There goes the size advantage. Well maybe you only will ever mount the one lens. Then you can get cheaper/more flexible P&S's for less, and as small.
06-23-2011, 07:39 AM   #223
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I'm sorry, Ogl, I can't read Japanese.

And you are the only person that is saying there will be no APS-C mirrorless system.
06-23-2011, 07:39 AM - 1 Like   #224
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I like this camera (from what I can tell), because:
1) Best camera is the one you have with you. My K-x is small, but still usually stays home.
2) Having nice bokeh is nice, but actually having subject in focus is much better.
3) Easy to play with different concepts. Want to try out ultra wide fisheye on your P&S? Well, now you can and you don't have to pay through your nose.
06-23-2011, 07:39 AM   #225
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QuoteOriginally posted by timh Quote
Japan is not Lilliput, dude... It's compact living, not shoebox living. This is the home market of Nikon and Canon, the birthplace of modern consumer electronics, they can squeeze a good few cameras into those apartments.
You are right. I got a little carried away.
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