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06-24-2011, 11:42 AM   #346
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I still say a full frame DSLR would sell better for them than the Q.
That would depend on the price and specs of the full frame SLR. Whatever the case, full frame isn't in the cards for Pentax for the foreseeable future.

06-24-2011, 12:25 PM   #347
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I still say a full frame DSLR would sell better for them than the Q.
unless they had it sub $2000 i doubt it, over 2500 you'd have a bugger of a time taking any share from canikon until you go out of there league and make something like the 645d, or compete in another arena like the M9
Sony did ok with the low end FF but the high end did little and between them i doubt they added up to D700 sales
and FF is still a very small piece of the pie. On dollars I wouldn't be surprised id PS cameras outsold it.
Not that i don't want a FF Pentax i do, but i'm not holding my breath, i don't fancy dying from suffocation
06-24-2011, 01:22 PM   #348
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I still say a full frame DSLR would sell better for them than the Q.
I would also disagree with this, given that the userbase is not unlike the law of diminishing returns - large consumer group appealing to the Q, much smaller more-specialised group appealing to FF. There's more for Pentax to gain from Q at this stage with all the other market competition in this niche rather than trying to compete with the already excellent D700, upcoming D800 and 5D MkII.
06-24-2011, 02:02 PM   #349
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I still say a full frame DSLR would sell better for them than the Q.
I highly doubt that a FF DSLR will net them more gains than the Pentax Q. The Q is high rewards type of scenario with moderate risks I think. They have been developing it for awhile it gets their foot in the door. And it seems to me that the sensor is undersized for the mount. Perhaps in later generations the sensor will get bigger. With a customer base already built upon the Pentax Q.

Whereas FF DSLR would be low/moderate rewards with low/moderate risks as customers would A) not generally look at Pentax for FF. B) Number of customers that can afford one are limited.

The Q is more geared towards the compact and mobility. Despite the sensor size which everyone is griping about the camera can/does have a market. The only thing that would prevent it from doing well is price. If Pentax could lower the price by $150 or even $200 the market should do very well. Also if IQ is better than that of P&S despite being a P&S sensor it gives it a significant advantage.

06-24-2011, 03:18 PM   #350
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woaaah. outstanding response here. is everybody really missing the point, to such an extent? the point is not sensor size or even price. this is a premium product, for people who for various reasons want something small but still "serious". imho, with all due respect, if you don't get it move on, and keep quiet: this is not for you, and not everything must be. to give you an idea: i'm the kind of guy who uses a nokia 6310 (or 6210, not long ago) when everybody else has fancy android phones, and i simply cannot get the point of a phone smarter (and more expensive) than a laptop i once used. i don't call people with iphones and android phones retards though, i just shake my head in awe, and enjoy the diversity.

and btw, it looks damn good imho, and although the fuji x100 is simply superb, it is more expensive even, and that's without the interchangeable lens system. this is not for everybody. but why is it such a major tragedy when your favourite camera manufacturer releases something you don't need or find desireable?
06-24-2011, 04:48 PM   #351
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
That would depend on the price and specs of the full frame SLR. Whatever the case, full frame isn't in the cards for Pentax for the foreseeable future.
Didn't say FF was in the cards, just said I felt it would sell more than the Q.

QuoteOriginally posted by eddie1960 Quote
unless they had it sub $2000 i doubt it, over 2500 you'd have a bugger of a time taking any share from canikon until you go out of there league and make something like the 645d, or compete in another arena like the M9
Sony did ok with the low end FF but the high end did little and between them i doubt they added up to D700 sales
and FF is still a very small piece of the pie. On dollars I wouldn't be surprised id PS cameras outsold it.
Not that i don't want a FF Pentax i do, but i'm not holding my breath, i don't fancy dying from suffocation
QuoteOriginally posted by Ash Quote
I would also disagree with this, given that the userbase is not unlike the law of diminishing returns - large consumer group appealing to the Q, much smaller more-specialised group appealing to FF. There's more for Pentax to gain from Q at this stage with all the other market competition in this niche rather than trying to compete with the already excellent D700, upcoming D800 and 5D MkII.
QuoteOriginally posted by epqwerty Quote
I highly doubt that a FF DSLR will net them more gains than the Pentax Q. The Q is high rewards type of scenario with moderate risks I think. They have been developing it for awhile it gets their foot in the door. And it seems to me that the sensor is undersized for the mount. Perhaps in later generations the sensor will get bigger. With a customer base already built upon the Pentax Q.

Whereas FF DSLR would be low/moderate rewards with low/moderate risks as customers would A) not generally look at Pentax for FF. B) Number of customers that can afford one are limited.

The Q is more geared towards the compact and mobility. Despite the sensor size which everyone is griping about the camera can/does have a market. The only thing that would prevent it from doing well is price. If Pentax could lower the price by $150 or even $200 the market should do very well. Also if IQ is better than that of P&S despite being a P&S sensor it gives it a significant advantage.
Disagree x3.

I would put money down and say that if the Q came out on the same day as a Pentax FF DSLR, and you gave them both 1 year of sales, that the FF would sell more than the Q, regardless of the FF's price. A little novelty camera would certainly not outsell what nearly every Pentax DSLR user has been waiting for for years.

Current Pentax DSLR users who will buy FF + new Pentax FF buyers >>>>> current Pentax DSLR users who are going to buy the Q + others who are going to buy the Q
06-24-2011, 05:11 PM   #352
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QuoteQuote:
I would put money down and say that if the Q came out on the same day as a Pentax FF DSLR, and you gave them both 1 year of sales, that the FF would sell more than the Q, regardless of the FF's price. A little novelty camera would certainly not outsell what nearly every Pentax DSLR user has been waiting for for years.
No way, a camera over $2000 have fewer potential customer. FF camera sales are down across all brand
06-24-2011, 05:35 PM   #353
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
Didn't say FF was in the cards, just said I felt it would sell more than the Q.







Disagree x3.

I would put money down and say that if the Q came out on the same day as a Pentax FF DSLR, and you gave them both 1 year of sales, that the FF would sell more than the Q, regardless of the FF's price. A little novelty camera would certainly not outsell what nearly every Pentax DSLR user has been waiting for for years.

Current Pentax DSLR users who will buy FF + new Pentax FF buyers >>>>> current Pentax DSLR users who are going to buy the Q + others who are going to buy the Q
I'm sorry, but as much as I'd like to believe this, it's not true, which is probably why Pentax has not made a FF camera yet. At best, you have a vocal minority of people on these and similar forums who want to have the OPTION of buying a FF camera, and are irritated that there's a ceiling on where their gear can go. Only some of these would actually put the dime down for such an expensive (and potentially large) item.

06-24-2011, 06:05 PM   #354
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I say if you took a poll in these forums of who is going to buy a Q and then a poll of who is going to buy a FF body if it ever comes out, the FF buyers will outnumber the Q buyers. How can you say it's not true? You have absolutely no idea how many people will buy the Q or how many Pentax is going to sell.
06-24-2011, 06:35 PM - 1 Like   #355
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For me this little thing is a disappointment because of one simple reason. Pentax has very limited resources. To bring Q to the market it sacrificed development of K mount, and I wasted time waiting for faster and better lenses, accessories, better AF, etc. I am as a consumer depend on their success, and I am not happy to see such doubtful moves. It also decreases value of Pentax brand, giving people a message that Pentax is after "style", not performance.
06-24-2011, 06:39 PM   #356
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I say if you took a poll in these forums of who is going to buy a Q and then a poll of who is going to buy a FF body if it ever comes out, the FF buyers will outnumber the Q buyers. How can you say it's not true? You have absolutely no idea how many people will buy the Q or how many Pentax is going to sell.
Forum numbers have nothing to do with anything. If Pentax sold three cameras to every member of these fora, they would lose money. The question is what camera will sell to the populace at large.

Full frame is used by a small segment of upper end users. Between the strides that APS-C sensors have made and a lousy economy, full frame numbers have actually shrunk. At the same time, Nikon/Canon users tend to be locked in by their lenses and are unlikely to jump across to another brand, even if it offers nice features or, slightly lower cost.

At the same time, a Q camera selling for 600-ish dollars will sell a lot in Japan and depending on what image quality is like, elsewhere as well.
06-24-2011, 06:42 PM   #357
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So many threads but let me remind those who follow Neds blog, "Tempest in the teapot" explains a lot of whats transpiring right now.
06-24-2011, 07:06 PM   #358
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I say if you took a poll in these forums of who is going to buy a Q and then a poll of who is going to buy a FF body if it ever comes out, the FF buyers will outnumber the Q buyers.
Because this camera is not target at us, the main market is Japan . Not a lot of Japanese here on this forum
06-24-2011, 07:21 PM   #359
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QuoteOriginally posted by K-9 Quote
I say if you took a poll in these forums of who is going to buy a Q and then a poll of who is going to buy a FF body if it ever comes out, the FF buyers will outnumber the Q buyers. How can you say it's not true? You have absolutely no idea how many people will buy the Q or how many Pentax is going to sell.
If 1/3 of the people who would buy an FF saved more to buy a 645d, Pentax would be in a better position than trying to support 2 very high end systems amongst the same installed user base.

The only way right now Pentax would make FF is if it stood a reasonable chance of taking market share away from Canon, Nikon, or Sony. The FF market is not that dynamic right now as sensor costs are too expensive to move down the price points.

The Q might have taken more resources from the P&S and bridge camera segments of greater Hoya than it did from the DSLR camp. Good thing too as the bridge camera offerings from Pentax are sub-par and the P&S models have great durability and ergonomics but score poorly on IQ. That whole area of the Pentax market needs a pick-me-up.
06-24-2011, 07:42 PM   #360
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QuoteOriginally posted by Rondec Quote
Forum numbers have nothing to do with anything. If Pentax sold three cameras to every member of these fora, they would lose money. The question is what camera will sell to the populace at large..
You must have missed this:

QuoteQuote:
Current Pentax DSLR users who will buy FF + new Pentax FF buyers >>>>> current Pentax DSLR users who are going to buy the Q + others who are going to buy the Q
I said nothing of just forum members in this sentence. I meant the general public here.
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