[Vylen]

20-year career network engineer here -- I've known about and had the misfortune of dealing with Apple since its infancy. It's the same old limiting and under-featured hardware/OS with the only recent change being a vastly superior marketing strategy.

My older two children insisted on iPhones and iPads depite my attempts to convince them otherwise. I did draw a firm line when they wanted a MacBook for their college notebook solution. Why? Because when they break, they're broken -- you have to send them in to Apple for repair. They're still far from the industry standard so a lot of required apps and even some websites will not run on them. How "smart" is anyone to buy a smartphone that only lets you put on it specifically what Apple says you can put on it? Doesn't seem very "smart" to me. Same scenario with an iPad.

When my son got his iPad last Christmas I was having career flashbacks of failed attempts to network AppleTalk. Being a network engineer, I have pro level Cisco routers and wireless access points in my house (yes, I have stock in the company -- haha). The overpriced iPad will not connect to them unless I remove all security/encryption. Called up Apple Tech Support, told them what network infrastructure I have as well as my level of expertise in this area, and guess what I was told? "Oh, yeah...you need an Apple Airport..."

I guess Cisco hardware is good enough to run most of the internet, but not good enough for Apple devices...?

So, as you can see, I know and appreciate high quality hardware (Cisco). Apple just doesn't fit that description in my significant experience.

Again, I am one of those "suckers" Junyo mentioned who is interested in the Q, but unlike the i-People who line up overnight at the local Apple Store to pay the overblown full MSRP for the latest i-Device, I won't be paying MSRP for the Q.

I can't remember the last time I paid MSRP for anything, and I don't think that Pentax really expects most people to to do so. I predict the Q will settle down to a nice street price a little higher than the higher end point-n-shoots, which is exactly where it should be.

You need to get out of your shell of the old days and just keep trying.

I could connect an iPad2 to my Cisco Linksys router fine with WPA2 encryption.

As for drawing the line at a MacBook, I don't see how it's any different from any other laptop - laptops are generally not meant to be user-serviceable apart from RAM. So if you bought a Dell, HP or Lenovo and they broke, you'd have to send it in to an authorised service-person anyway.

P.S, I own a Mac Pro tower

P.P.S Best not to get off-topic heheh

[gazonk]

2
My older two children insisted on iPhones and iPads depite my attempts to convince them otherwise. I did draw a firm line when they wanted a MacBook for their college notebook solution. Why? Because when they break, they're broken -- you have to send them in to Apple for repair.

Please go somewhere else with your Apple flaming, you're just being ridiculous, and this is not the place.

(I know what I'm talking about. I have used all kinds of computers for 30 years and develop software for linux, Windows and Mac OS X. I've changed hard disks in my childrens' MacBooks a total of 7 or 8 times, piece of cake - but not on PowerBooks or the very first MacBook Pro's, so maybe you're simply not updated)

[Internetpilot]

You need to get out of your shell of the old days and just keep trying.

I could connect an iPad2 to my Cisco Linksys router fine with WPA2 encryption.

As for drawing the line at a MacBook, I don't see how it's any different from any other laptop - laptops are generally not meant to be user-serviceable apart from RAM. So if you bought a Dell, HP or Lenovo and they broke, you'd have to send it in to an authorised service-person anyway.

P.S, I own a Mac Pro tower

P.P.S Best not to get off-topic heheh

The "old days"? I can guarantee you I have newer equipment than 99.9% of this forum -- there's nothing "old days" about me other than I remember and currently know Apple for everything they were and still are (or should that be weren't and aren't?). I don't know why you would assume that because I don't care for Apple products (for legitimate, specified reasons) that I don't have modern equipment or that I'm living in the "old days".

I just replaced the motherboard in my wife's 2-year-old Dell notebook a couple of months ago, under warranty from Dell. I called them up, told them the part I needed, they sent it out, I returned the dead one to them (all postage paid and completely free). Did the same thing with two Dell notebooks 5 years ago, and replaced a screen, keyboard, and power supply (again completely under warranty) in a Compaq notebook about 7 years ago. Apple would never allow their customers to do that, which is why their warranty periods are shorter (they have to pay their techs and keep their overpriced repair centers open). Admittedly, that's perfectly fine for most consumers, and I completely understand that. However, I have the knowledge and experience to be able to service/repair my own equipment, which is why I don't want my family members to have Apple products because I don't feel like paying the extra money to have someone else repair them.

I'm not talking about Cisco Linksys co-branded routers -- those are consumer grade. I'm also talking about an original 64GB iPad (not the iPad2 that they had to release to correct these type of problems). None of my other modern equipment has any trouble connecting to the Cisco routers/AP's: 7 PCs, Nintendo Wii, Sony Playstation 3, Microsoft XBox 360, 4 Nintendo DS/DSi devices, 3 DirecTV DVRs, Acer A500 Android tablet, HTC Evo 4G phone, Blackberry phone, and three different printers. I guess I just got "lucky" with all that equipment, but "unlucky" only on the three different Apple devices I've tried???

My network equipment is industry standard. The problem I'm encountering is that Apple products are not industry standard, never have been, and likely never will be. Lately (especially with the i-devices) that's because Apple is so popular that they can attempt to create their own standard, but sometimes it's just bad design where they're simply not working to any established standard, which I think is frequently a bad decision for their customers.

Discussing computer equipment on a DIGITAL photography forum is never off-topic.

Please go somewhere else with your Apple flaming, you're just being ridiculous, and this is not the place.

(I know what I'm talking about. I have used all kinds of computers for 30 years and develop software for linux, Windows and Mac OS X. I've changed hard disks in my childrens' MacBooks a total of 7 or 8 times, piece of cake - but not on PowerBooks or the very first MacBook Pro's, so maybe you're simply not updated)

It's not flaming -- it's opinion based on fact and experience. The only people who would complain about my anti-Apple opinions are Apple zealots. I don't mind if you disagree with or even contradict my opinions -- plenty of people do. Apple devices are VERY popular. However, to accuse me of flaming and attempting to discredit my opinions and even my extensive experience just makes your statements above look hypocritical and smacks of Apple zealotism.

Again, discussing computer hardware and software preferences is perfectly normal on a DIGITAL photography forum. The only time there are problems is when people resort to zealot enthusiasm instead simply stating facts, calm opinions, or experience.

Besides, it's not like the original thread topic (the Pentax Q) is going anywhere constructive anyway.

Again, the accusation of being outdated (see my response above). A child could change out a hard drive in any computer -- desktop or notebook. In most modern systems that task is accomplished without touching a single tool. Let me know when Apple allows you (as in doing it yourself) to replace a motherboard under warranty and then I'll agree that Apple devices are an option for someone like me, and therefore my children.

Folks, it's just a namebrand, and my opinions are just opinions. Unless your last name is Jobs or Gates, you really shouldn't feel so passionately and emotionally about your choice in computers.


Well, I guess we can all go back to bashing the whole idea of the Q now? Or have we all moved on to the doom and gloom of Ricoh buying out Pentax?

[jsherman999]

...
Folks, it's just a namebrand, and my opinions are just opinions. Unless your last name is Jobs or Gates, you really shouldn't feel so passionately and emotionally about your choice in computers.

Sounds to me like you're pretty passionate yourself - extremely anti-apple!

Personally I don't care too much either way. As a Unix guy, I admire what can be done with OS X, though, and Apple's 'keep it simple' person-device interface strategy has been executed brilliantly, as illustrated by the company's performance. And it's devices do have an elegance that others try to match - after the fact.

Well, I guess we can all go back to bashing the whole idea of the Q now? Or have we all moved on to the doom and gloom of Ricoh buying out Pentax?

Q: Bash away. Ricoh: Hopeful development.


.

[Blue]

Pentax needs to come out with an adapter for the 110 series lenses otherwise somebody like Fotodiox will.

Edit: Maybe Ricoh will come out with a module for their GXR that has an aps-c sensor and af K-mount.

[Internetpilot]

Sounds to me like you're pretty passionate yourself - extremely anti-apple!

Personally I don't care too much either way. As a Unix guy, I admire what can be done with OS X, though, and Apple's 'keep it simple' person-device interface strategy has been executed brilliantly, as illustrated by the company's performance. And it's devices do have an elegance that others try to match - after the fact.



Q: Bash away. Ricoh: Hopeful development.


.

Haha...you're probably right about my "anti-passion", but I do typically cite real world reasons that aren't emotion based.

It's difficult to deny that most of Apple's success is due to an excellent marketing strategy. Graduate programs at Universities around the world will be studying it for decades to come. And this was my original point before someone started alleging that Apple had superior hardware.

The same thing can happen with any camera. Does no one think signing Ashton Kutcher to the recent Nikon marketing campaign sold more cameras? Pentax makes very good cameras, which actually attract new customers (like me) despite non-existent marketing. The Q would sell if properly marketed. And I'm not just picking on Pentax -- Olympus and Panasonic are examples of the exact same thing.

[Ash]

It's difficult to deny that most of Apple's success is due to an excellent marketing strategy

It's also difficult to deny that Apple systems just work with such minimal fuss and unresolvable errors/crashes, kind of like how Nikon's iTTL compares with Pentax's P-TTL. Macs don't have superior hardware, it just functions very well with OSX. Again, it's not just marketing if people are buying the product and are satisfied with its performance. Marketing alone cannot save an inferior product.

[Internetpilot]

It's also difficult to deny that Apple systems just work with such minimal fuss and unresolvable errors/crashes, kind of like how Nikon's iTTL compares with Pentax's P-TTL. Macs don't have superior hardware, it just functions very well with OSX. Again, it's not just marketing if people are buying the product and are satisfied with its performance. Marketing alone cannot save an inferior product.

Apple just works because their OS significantly limits what the user can do. Where the pure marketing comes in is making people think that despite how much Apple limits its users, it's still the best product. Dumb everything down and then tell everyone they're smart if they buy it. That is pure marketing genius.

[asdf]

Apple just works because their OS significantly limits what the user can do. Where the pure marketing comes in is making people think that despite how much Apple limits its users, it's still the best product. Dumb everything down and then tell everyone they're smart if they buy it. That is pure marketing genius.

You sound like you've never used Mac OS X for too long. I've used Linux and FreeBSD since the 90s, so while I use Mac OS X, I frequently use the terminal and *nix utilities. I tend to think of Mac OS X as FreeBSD with a GUI and better application support.

[gazonk]

It's not flaming -- it's opinion based on fact and experience. The only people who would complain about my anti-Apple opinions are Apple zealots.

FWIW, I work for a company that runs about 100 linux (and other *nix flavors) servers four our services. We used to build them ourselves.

[asw66]

At the risk of bringing this thread back on topic, I'm starting to get warm fuzzy feelings about the Ricoh takeover. Ricoh users seem to be more impressed by the Q than most Pentaxians (on this forum, anyway), and many Pentaxians are happily speculating about future editions of the GXR series.

Warms the heart, I tell ya.

[uccemebug]

At the risk of bringing this thread back on topic, I'm starting to get warm fuzzy feelings about the Ricoh takeover. Ricoh users seem to be more impressed by the Q than most Pentaxians (on this forum, anyway), and many Pentaxians are happily speculating about future editions of the GXR series.

Warms the heart, I tell ya.

Agreed.

(I wonder if the next GRD will have a BSI sensor)

[Ubuntu_user]

At the risk of bringing this thread back on topic, I'm starting to get warm fuzzy feelings about the Ricoh takeover. Ricoh users seem to be more impressed by the Q than most Pentaxians (on this forum, anyway), and many Pentaxians are happily speculating about future editions of the GXR series.

Warms the heart, I tell ya.

Yup, I'm very hopeful in this transition!

[dankoBanana]

the Q system only needs 1 really fast prime (>=f1.2) to become very desirable

[arpaagent]

the Q system only needs 1 really fast prime (>=f1.2) to become very desirable

and a wide angle prime.