Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
07-08-2011, 05:03 AM   #571
Loyal Site Supporter
eddie1960's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Toronto
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 12,270
QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Essentially, yes, in terms of shooting controls and the availability of a standard prime lens, which is all that I care about.

To me photography isn't about image quality, or sensor size, ...

Every day, great photos are taken on iPhones, and lots of bad photos on expensive full frame cameras.

At the end of the day, photography is about the right moment, and the right opportunity. A miniaturised camera with good control of shooting parameters and a standard lens will allow me to realise more moments and more opportunities. That, to me, is the value proposition of the Q.
I'm with you on this one Christine, the camera is just a tool, if it allows me to get a shot i wouldn't have (because my k7 for instance is at home) it's done it's job
I've manage good shots with some pretty awful cameras (ever used a Holga, or any of the other lomo stuff - at least i won't have to light seal the Q with electrical tape )

07-08-2011, 06:35 AM   #572
Veteran Member
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Essentially, yes, in terms of shooting controls and the availability of a standard prime lens, which is all that I care about.
In this respect, external controls, a prime - yes, somewhat like a K-r.


QuoteQuote:
To me photography isn't about image quality, or sensor size, ...

Every day, great photos are taken on iPhones, and lots of bad photos on expensive full frame cameras.

At the end of the day, photography is about the right moment, and the right opportunity. A miniaturised camera with good control of shooting parameters and a standard lens will allow me to realise more moments and more opportunities. That, to me, is the value proposition of the Q.

Here is my fear for those who buy the 'Q':

1) You get the kit in your hands, you're excited, it's very small and novel.

2) You start taking it with you a lot of places, start shooting a lot of things casually.

3) You realize that the VF isn't very good, slightly annoying. You stick with it, or you start using the back screen - annoying in it's own way, and composition suffers as it's not as much fun to 'find' composure.

4) You realize AF-lock is a step behind DSLR, and you start to notice the shots you're missing because of it.

5) You begin to realize how often DOF control and subject isolation actually were a part of your photographer's toolkit - before.

6) You realize that noise reduction may be fine for certain scenes, but it really renders people in a strange way, unflattering, plastic skin.

7) You occasionally miss the several stops of dynamic range, especially when shooting outside in bright sunlight with shadows. You have RAW available... but much less headroom in those raw files than you're used to.

8) The images from that prime begin to remind you of a slightly-better-corrected kit lens.

9) You love the availability of the camera that comes with the size... but begin to leave it home more and more often because of it's limitations, thus defeating the purpose of buying it. Usage/handling wasn't as fun as you thought it would be, and frankly the images you get from it fall short of thrilling you.

10) You begin to regret the price paid.

Now, as I like to say, everyone is bothered by different things, or the same things to different degrees, so #3 through #8 may not bother you enough to offset the novelty and size advantage of the camera... but it will begin to bother a good percentage of buyers who shoot DSLRs now, or who shoot bridge cameras and expected a noticeable leap in usage and image quality from that bridge camera.



.

Last edited by jsherman999; 07-08-2011 at 06:45 AM.
07-08-2011, 06:52 AM   #573
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Charlotte, NC
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 886
QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
I don't think it's fair to lump the Q with P&S cameras like the Sony with tons of gimmicky features.
What other word comes to mind when viewing the Q other than gimmick? That's the first word that popped into my head when I saw it; of course I was expecting a price tag of $300, not $800. At $800 we might have to come up with some other word; gimmicky products are usually cheap at least.

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
[B]With a much tinier sensor, capable of very little DOF control, probably nothing wider than 24mm (135 equiv,)
As far as the DOF issue goes, that has always been my biggest concern with this tiny sensor as well. Sure, dynamic range and noise control will improve over time, but DOF control will never change. That is unless Pentax has plans for some sort of reduction optical lens system for the Q. I saw this SLR lens adapter for the iPhone go through the news cycle yesterday and it made me think of the Nikon E2 (that someone posted on here a while back). I'm no expert in these matters, but it made me think that iPhone adapter might be doing something similar to this:



Anyway, I really can't wait to see some sample pics from the Q, because I simply don't understand how they're doing DOF control via software. It can be done in Photoshop obviously, but it takes lots of time and only produces so-so results.

Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 07-08-2011 at 07:02 AM.
07-08-2011, 08:12 AM   #574
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,212
QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Essentially, yes, in terms of shooting controls and the availability of a standard prime lens, which is all that I care about.

To me photography isn't about image quality, or sensor size, ...

Every day, great photos are taken on iPhones, and lots of bad photos on expensive full frame cameras.

At the end of the day, photography is about the right moment, and the right opportunity. A miniaturised camera with good control of shooting parameters and a standard lens will allow me to realise more moments and more opportunities. That, to me, is the value proposition of the Q.
I understand what you are saying. However, there have been times that I had a P&S or top phone cam and regretted in a major way not having my K200d etc. There are things those cameras can't do.

07-08-2011, 08:15 AM   #575
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,212
The Q may prove me wrong but I have drawn the line in the sand and sensor size of 1/1.63 with my Galaxy S internal cam excluded.
07-08-2011, 09:25 AM - 1 Like   #576
Veteran Member
jsherman999's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 8,228
QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
The Q may prove me wrong but I have drawn the line in the sand and sensor size of 1/1.63 with my Galaxy S internal cam excluded.
I think there are some m4/3 offerings that really look good, even some of the aps-c mirrorless. Sometimes (IMO) small gets too small, and sacrifices start getting in the way of enjoyment. But everyone enjoys different things, too.
07-08-2011, 02:07 PM - 1 Like   #577
Veteran Member
Christine Tham's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Sydney, Australia
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 2,269
QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Here is my fear for those who buy the 'Q':
These are all very good points, but they apply to EVERY camera, not just the Q.

No camera is perfect.

I find the EOS-1D way too cumbersome and huge. I have given up on this camera.

I find the Leica M9 range focusing frustrating (I have astigmatism on my right eye and the viewfinder is very difficult to use for me). I have also given up on this camera.

The K-5 AF, whilst significantly better than previous models, still doesn't do focus tracking as well as the market leaders. And it's way too big/inappropriate for some situations (see below).

My early model Nikon prosumer superzoom - great picture quality, but frustratingly slow.

My Canon compact - yes it's pink, but incredibly frustrating if I want control over shooting parameters.

No doubt the Q will also be frustrating in certain ways. But it also fulfils a niche that no other camera does (not even the smallest micro 4/3) - it is small enough to pocket in my cycling jersey or carry in my handbag, it allows control over shooting parameters, it is innocuous enough for me to take to gallery exhibitions and concerts (and other venues which prohibit the use of SLRs but "allow" the use of "consumer" cameras) .

I also looked closely at cameras like X100 and GF3 and the new E-PL3, but they all miss out on what I want to use the Q for.
07-08-2011, 02:53 PM   #578
Veteran Member
Kenn100D's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Paranaque City, Philippines
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 646
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
These are all very good points, but they apply to EVERY camera, not just the Q.

No camera is perfect.

I find the EOS-1D way too cumbersome and huge. I have given up on this camera.

I find the Leica M9 range focusing frustrating (I have astigmatism on my right eye and the viewfinder is very difficult to use for me). I have also given up on this camera.

The K-5 AF, whilst significantly better than previous models, still doesn't do focus tracking as well as the market leaders. And it's way too big/inappropriate for some situations (see below).

My early model Nikon prosumer superzoom - great picture quality, but frustratingly slow.

My Canon compact - yes it's pink, but incredibly frustrating if I want control over shooting parameters.

No doubt the Q will also be frustrating in certain ways. But it also fulfils a niche that no other camera does (not even the smallest micro 4/3) - it is small enough to pocket in my cycling jersey or carry in my handbag, it allows control over shooting parameters, it is innocuous enough for me to take to gallery exhibitions and concerts (and other venues which prohibit the use of SLRs but "allow" the use of "consumer" cameras) .

I also looked closely at cameras like X100 and GF3 and the new E-PL3, but they all miss out on what I want to use the Q for.
Very Much said. Also, If you don't want it don't buy it. That's it. End of story, wait for your dream camera next year at Photokina or later (Dec). If still does not come, there is always panalympics, or canikon's (2012?) or samony

For Me i like the concept and i would love to carry it around if i'm lazy carrying my K-5. Nuff Said.

07-09-2011, 06:59 AM   #579
ogl
Pentaxian
ogl's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Siberia
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 7,254

it's not very compact with zoom lens

ペンタックス、「PENTAX Q」の体験イベントを開催 - デジカメWatch
07-09-2011, 07:21 AM   #580
Pentaxian




Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: 5th floor
Posts: 1,328
Interesting article.
07-09-2011, 07:50 AM   #581
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,212
It looks bigger in the palm than my old auto 110. My 110 fits in my shirt pocket with the 18mm lens on it. Plus, the film area is equivalent to a m4/3 sensor. If they had put a m4/3 size sensor in the Q, they would have rocked Olympus and Panny at the foundation.
07-09-2011, 08:02 AM   #582
Pentaxian
Raffwal's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: 64ー57' North
Posts: 806
QuoteOriginally posted by Fontan Quote
Interesting article.
Did they say anything new? Any public apologies or regrets of announcing the camera? The Google translate was a bit hard to understand.
07-09-2011, 08:33 AM   #583
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2009
Photos: Albums
Posts: 158
Honestly, i don't personally see the big problem with the sensor size. i shot for a couple months with a Canon A720IS (still have it somewhere), and the main reason i switched to the A650 was the A650 lens was so much better. The A720 has a 1/2.5" CCD sensor. Lens-wise the A650 resolved detail as well as its 12MP sensor can capture, and the A720 lens doesn't quite do its 8MP sensor justice.

The main issue with that generation of sensors, which the A650 also suffers from, is bad colour. Subtle colouration just isn't there. That's the main reason i carry around the K-7 in daylight for street use. Something as unobstrusive as the Q seems to be, would do me well walking around downtown.

If the Q sensor has good colour it'd be quite ok for a lot of uses. i'm perfectly willing to give Pentax credit sight unseen for the quality of their lenses.

DR? i guess i'm used to not having much of that from years of cams like the above including the K-7, and slide film before that. As long as the Q has OK colour up to ISO400 or so, abt on par with an S90-- which i've also played with-- i'd be complaisant.

Sensor noise? Same comment as above. Of the cams i've used only the K-7 does ok there, and only in bright conditions.

Last edited by conradj; 07-09-2011 at 08:42 AM.
07-09-2011, 09:13 AM   #584
Senior Member




Join Date: Sep 2009
Photos: Albums
Posts: 158
The thing that would for sure sell me on the Q is if it came with an HCB Monochrome mode; the Henri Cartier-Bresson setting where it'd only trip the shutter if it calculated a Decisive Moment, with a slider for from 25-100% probability of it, and adjustments for different types of Decisive Moment scenes. Be fun to play with.

i don't shoot like that dude and am an ant compared to him, but have come around to taping up my cameras with black tape as he's known to do, and in my B&W days also filed down my enlarger neg carrier to leave a black border around the image.

Last edited by conradj; 07-09-2011 at 09:32 AM.
07-09-2011, 09:53 AM   #585
Moderator
Site Supporter
Blue's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida Hill Country
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 17,212
QuoteOriginally posted by conradj Quote
Honestly, i don't personally see the big problem with the sensor size. i shot for a couple months with a Canon A720IS (still have it somewhere), and the main reason i switched to the A650 was the A650 lens was so much better. The A720 has a 1/2.5" CCD sensor. Lens-wise the A650 resolved detail as well as its 12MP sensor can capture, and the A720 lens doesn't quite do its 8MP sensor justice.

The main issue with that generation of sensors, which the A650 also suffers from, is bad colour. Subtle colouration just isn't there. That's the main reason i carry around the K-7 in daylight for street use. Something as unobstrusive as the Q seems to be, would do me well walking around downtown.

If the Q sensor has good colour it'd be quite ok for a lot of uses. i'm perfectly willing to give Pentax credit sight unseen for the quality of their lenses.

DR? i guess i'm used to not having much of that from years of cams like the above including the K-7, and slide film before that. As long as the Q has OK colour up to ISO400 or so, abt on par with an S90-- which i've also played with-- i'd be complaisant.

Sensor noise? Same comment as above. Of the cams i've used only the K-7 does ok there, and only in bright conditions.
This wasn't really a mp debate but a sensor size debate. No matter how you slice it an dice it, a good 1/1.63" sensor is going to be better than a good 1/2.3" sensor. There is a substantial difference in area and even more some when comparing the 4/3. Compared to the Q, the Auto 110 is a medium format.

File:Sensor sizes overlaid inside.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
camera, mirrorless, pentax, pentax q, pentax q10, pentax q7, q10, q7
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Spotmatic motordrive...in the flesh! pickles Pentax Film SLR Discussion 8 08-09-2010 01:00 PM
Of Flesh and Clay dantuyhoa Post Your Photos! 9 11-11-2008 11:57 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:04 AM. | See also: NikonForums.com, CanonForums.com part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top