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07-10-2011, 09:13 AM - 1 Like   #616
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QuoteOriginally posted by epqwerty Quote
Okay, I'm back. I'll bite. Good is really subjective. A good sensor from 2 years ago isn't considered good in today's standards. How about we just stop arguing about image quality until we see the final product and then we can judge and argue all we went then. I recall when M4/3 sensors were compared to APS-C sensors and were terrible. However, now it is comparable if not better then older APSC sensors in terms of ISO performance and dynamic range. Who says that this new 1/2.3" sensor can't be comparable? We are all speculating and assuming. I'd just say hold off until we get cold hard facts and then we can all jump on whatever bandwagon we want.

On a side note, wow that zoom lens is huge compared to the camera itself. Its almost the length of the camera. I didn't know that until these pictures. I'd have to say it's not impressive with that combo. I think the primes are the way to go on these things. However, general public wise it's going to be a tough sell. The m4/3 zooms relative to the body do not look as big. Perspective wise.
The "stop arguing" line goes both ways. I wager that the new sensors coming out in the e-p3 and its more diminutive sibling are better than the best 1/2.3" sensor. That 4/3 sensor is the same size as the image area on 110 film. The Pentax auto 110 is smaller than the Q. The Auto 110 fits in my shirt pocket with the 18mm lens. All I am saying is using a 1/1.63" sensor or 4/3 wouldn't have effected the size but would be able to go head to head with the GF3 and E-P3.

07-10-2011, 10:48 AM   #617
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who said a bigger sensor is out of the question in one of the Q's future iterations? the mount can accommodate it
07-10-2011, 11:55 AM   #618
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QuoteOriginally posted by dankoBanana Quote
who said a bigger sensor is out of the question in one of the Q's future iterations? the mount can accommodate it
In one interview, an engineer was quoted as saying that a bigger sensor is plausible but has not been tested in the lab. Suuure.
07-10-2011, 12:02 PM   #619
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Nah. There may be a woman standing in the back, but that's a man's hand. And not a Japanese man's I'd bet from the hair. When I lived in Tokyo I was surprised at how many people wanted to touch the fur on the back of my arm.
o that's true, and there's a wrist watch there not in the other picture of the woman wearing that Q t-shirt.

Just put the A720 in my palm, it's 6mm less width and 12mm taller compared to the Q. i think my average size hand's a lot bigger than the one holding up the Q in that shot.

07-10-2011, 12:18 PM - 1 Like   #620
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I think that in order for Q to be successful, it needs to be 3G or wi-fi compatible. If it takes the exact same steps to upload pics, eventually smartphone cam will catch up.
07-10-2011, 12:56 PM   #621
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A Pentax representative said somewhere (couldn't find the source at the moment) that there will be no bigger sensor.
07-10-2011, 01:18 PM   #622
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QuoteOriginally posted by uccemebug Quote
Nah. There may be a woman standing in the back, but that's a man's hand. And not a Japanese man's I'd bet from the hair. When I lived in Tokyo I was surprised at how many people wanted to touch the fur on the back of my arm.
I think you're right - it's not the same hand as the girl wearing the T shirt, because she does not have a watch on her hand.

But lots of Asian girls have hair on their hands, including me.

Here's a photo of my hand next to the Q:


Please don't say that is a man's hand or I will be very cross with you!
07-10-2011, 01:19 PM   #623
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
A Pentax representative said somewhere (couldn't find the source at the moment) that there will be no bigger sensor.
At least this is something that could probably change...
I don't see any problem for a 1/1,6" sensor even with the space-taking stabilisation... now the definite answer lies undoubtedly in the lens design...


Last edited by Zygonyx; 07-10-2011 at 01:45 PM.
07-10-2011, 01:27 PM   #624
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
That is also a close up shot. Even an iPhone can produce somewhat shallow DOF when shooting macro. The problem is portraits. Here is a portrait taken wide open with the XZ-1:
That is a nice portrait.

The Q will have a shallow DOF filter, let's wait and see how effective it is. And bear in mind that Pentax has been playing around with the design for 5 years - I'm sure that's plenty of time to play with lens designs etc.

For me, I don't intend to use the Q in the same way as I would a DSLR, so as I mentioned before high DOF is not an issue for me - indeed, it's a plus. Again, the whole point in investing in an alternative camera system is to gain access to a whole new set of use cases, not to duplicate the use cases of an existing camera.

Anyway, I would not normally use a standard prime to take a portrait even on a full frame - it's quite hard to get good bokeh unless I'm really up close. And standard primes tend to have quite harsh bokeh, high DOF at f1.9 may actually be a very very good thing.

Last edited by Christine Tham; 07-10-2011 at 02:02 PM.
07-10-2011, 02:41 PM   #625
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QuoteOriginally posted by ogl Quote

Use DOF calculator with 1/2.3" sensor + 8.5/1.9 + 2 m distance to object - it's easy.
It's not that easy. DOF is not directly dependent on sensor size, it actually depends on the circle of confusion, which can vary based on a number of things.

Also as I mentioned before DOF is also dependent on lens design.

Without knowing all of the above, any speculation about the realisable DOF for the camera and lens combo is just that - speculation.

I think we can all agree the camera will not have DOF as shallow as a full frame camera with a standard prime. But the point is, DOF isn't everything and it does not mean the ability to control shooting parameters is not useful on this camera, which is what you were originally implying.
07-10-2011, 02:55 PM   #626
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The segment of the market which Q is targeted to probably has no idea what DOF is. I don't think that matters at all for its success.
07-10-2011, 03:34 PM   #627
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So to move off topic a little bit. I was looking at the preview pictures from various sites and noticed something the there seems to be no mf switch anywhere on the body. Anyone happen to know if it is only af? Or will it employ a quick shift technology in all the lenses? I love manually focusing and itd be a shame if it couldnt be done.
07-10-2011, 03:35 PM   #628
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Here's a photo of my hand next to the Q:

Please don't say that is a man's hand or I will be very cross with you!
I wouldn't dare. 8^) Your hand looks half the size of the other one.

This thread reminds me of
.
07-10-2011, 03:38 PM   #629
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QuoteOriginally posted by epqwerty Quote
So to move off topic a little bit. I was looking at the preview pictures from various sites and noticed something the there seems to be no mf switch anywhere on the body. Anyone happen to know if it is only af? Or will it employ a quick shift technology in all the lenses? I love manually focusing and itd be a shame if it couldnt be done.
Perhaps with a sensor size approaching zero the DOF is so huge it is in effect always Hyperfocal?
07-10-2011, 07:08 PM   #630
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QuoteOriginally posted by Raffwal Quote
Perhaps with a sensor size approaching zero the DOF is so huge it is in effect always Hyperfocal?
I would say that it is pretty close to it. But, this is precisely the point really. It doesn't matter. People who will buy Q will most likely be not printing large, or if at all. These guys will be uploading instead. I would say that Japan is one of the very first country where cellphone became irreversibly ingrained in their everyday lives. If the whole point of Q is to go small, then even if they don't admit to it, IQ is secondary. This camera's eventual competition is not dslr or p&s. It's the cellphone cam. If more than one brand is coming out with Q mount products, I am certain that there will be smart phones that sport Q mount. So the question is, will people carry both cellphone and a small camera in their pockets? I probably would. But, I want hassle free uploading mechanism. Without it, I think this camera loses its appeal.
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