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07-13-2011, 08:10 AM   #676
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QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
Subject distance taken from the AF would be required for the software. That value would be passed as a parameter to the software to determine at what point to start the 'blur' routine, and to vary degree in front and back from that point, with the degree of blur increasing with distance from that point.
I still don't understand how this is going to work effectively. In Photoshop you have to clip the subject out, move the subject to a new layer, then blur the background behind. However, this always creates a halo around the subject because the edge of the subject bleeds out into the background. As a result you have to go back with the clone tool and touch up the entire parameter of the subject. I spent at least 2 hours doing that exact thing on this photo:



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That was the last time I did a portrait with a small sensor camera. I'm extremely curious as to how Pentax is going to do this in-camera, and at a fast enough speed for it not to be a headache shot-to-shot.

07-13-2011, 08:15 AM   #677
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A perfect little accessory for all the posh women & female teens who live on Face Book;-)
07-13-2011, 08:26 AM   #678
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QuoteOriginally posted by Art Vandelay II Quote
I still don't understand how this is going to work effectively. In Photoshop you have to clip the subject out, move the subject to a new layer, then blur the background behind. However, this always creates a halo around the subject because the edge of the subject bleeds out into the background. As a result you have to go back with the clone tool and touch up the entire parameter of the subject. I spent at least 2 hours doing that exact thing on this photo:
Could be linked to face detection (and flower detection, etc.) algorithms. finds focus, finds the "style" of photo, consults the database a la matrix metering, makes the call, and blurs the background x distance past the point of focus.

If you do not like, undo. It will obviously have limits.

Maybe the same way that some cameras (Fuji models like the X100) have their classic "film" looks, we'll see bokeh styles emerge. Would you like a 5- or 7-blade bokeh with that shot? Zeiss 50mm or DA 31 Ltd.?
07-13-2011, 09:07 AM   #679
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote

Maybe the same way that some cameras (Fuji models like the X100) have their classic "film" looks, we'll see bokeh styles emerge. Would you like a 5- or 7-blade bokeh with that shot? Zeiss 50mm or DA 31 Ltd.?


When the Q gets the 'cheap-Aspherical-glued-element-swirl' filter, it will have jumped the shark.

However, when it gets the 'Cosina-55-f1.2-gaping-eye-of-hell' filter..... I'll buy one.




07-13-2011, 09:11 AM - 1 Like   #680
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QuoteOriginally posted by dylansalt Quote
A perfect little accessory for all the posh women & female teens who live on Face Book;-)
Not unless they can make a phone call with it . . .

QuoteOriginally posted by jsherman999 Quote
When the Q gets the 'cheap-Aspherical-glued-element-swirl' filter, it will have jumped the shark.

However, when it gets the 'Cosina-55-f1.2-gaping-eye-of-hell' filter..... I'll buy one.


:Beer:
07-13-2011, 10:00 AM   #681
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aristophanes Quote
Maybe the same way that some cameras (Fuji models like the X100) have their classic "film" looks, we'll see bokeh styles emerge. Would you like a 5- or 7-blade bokeh with that shot? Zeiss 50mm or DA 31 Ltd.?
The software already exists and works that way. Just needs processing power onboard the camera.
07-13-2011, 10:24 AM   #682
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Did anyone else read the last hands-on article that was posted to this thread regarding the Q Pentax Q: toma de contacto? (in spanish I believe)

At one point they mention the existence of a dedicated mode on the mode dial for "bokeh" or "blur" mode, indicated as "BC" as shown in the image below. This really makes me think that Pentax has gone out of their way to make this feature actually useful. Time will tell, certainly will be interesting to see some samples.

07-13-2011, 10:57 AM - 1 Like   #683
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QuoteOriginally posted by junyo Quote
The software already exists and works that way. Just needs processing power onboard the camera.
Alien skin bokeh is what I used on the sample image I posted above. However it is not a solution to the halo effect around the subject I described. In order to properly create a nice effect it helps if you take two photos, one with the subject, then one of an empty background, then combine the two. That will save you from tedious touch up work around the edge of the subject. It would be an absolute nightmare trying to create a photo like this one with software.

Edit: Also there is a problem on photos like this. That looks totally fake to me, almost green-screen like. Since every part of the boy is in perfect focus when a blurry background is applied it just looks superimposed. There needs to be slight blurring at various depths on the subject. I really hope Pentax has figured out someway to do this with the Q because it would be a breakthrough, but man, I just have a hard time seeing it happen. Kind of reminds me of all the hype around the Photoshop content aware fill with CS5. The demo videos made it look great, but in actual use I've found I still get better results just cloning things manually.


Last edited by Art Vandelay II; 07-13-2011 at 11:17 AM.
07-13-2011, 11:58 AM   #684
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I've not posted on here for ages-work kind of invaded my life and cameras took a back seat.

However, I heard about the new Q and it lead me here again.

I personally think this camera will bomb. Not because its a bad camera, but because it is a mad commercial move at the moment. Its not the sensor that worries me or stops me buying it, its the insane price.

However, I do think the camera is exciting. I also wish people wouldn't deride it using gender/youth stereotypes. Its precisely because Pentax does these crazy things I've always liked them.

Reasons I like the camera:-
-it has proper dials and proper photographic features. I have a fuji camera that has a much raved about small sensor. Its not the sensor that bugs me. Its the lack of raw and the millions of menus and stupid buttons to get to simple things like exposure compensation. Plus I am not a fan of compact camera zooms.
-it has some very fun lenses. Yes toy lenses might seem like a joke, but I quite like the idea of a cheap fish-eye you can just throw in your bag and it will weigh nothing. Fish-eye lenses are too novelty to spend much on.
-it seems to be about having fun while travelling. I can see this being a lovely travel set-up if the user has plenty of control-no back ache and less attention grabbing.
-I can stick it on my brilliant minox tripod.

In short it looks like great fun. I love my DS but I've gotten lazy. I caved and got the fuji so I carried around a camera more. It has driven me mad and reminded me why I like cameras with lenses and dials.

But the price. Man the price. They need to seriously hack that price down and offer some attractive bundles. I could almost buy a K5 body for that price which looks like a classic in the digital era, whereas the Q may well depreciate like a sinking rock (some early micro-four thirds bodies are already very cheap on the used market).
07-13-2011, 12:06 PM   #685
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QuoteOriginally posted by pentaxkat Quote
. . . Its not the sensor that bugs me. Its the lack of raw and the millions of menus and stupid buttons to get to simple things like exposure compensation. . .

PentaxKat, I personally haven't been deriding it. I have been frank about my opinions on the sensor size and price point. I above quip was merely because I don't see bubble gum chewing valley girls flocking to buy it nor the average FB person that is into posting their status every 30 minutes. I share many of your sentiments. One point though, it does have RAW.

QuoteQuote:
Product Highlights

  • 12.4Mp 1/2.3" Backlit CMOS Sensor
  • 3.0" LCD Display
  • 8.5mm Lens (Equivalent to 47mm)
  • Q-Mount Lens System
  • DNG RAW + JPEG Images
  • Captures 1080p HD Video
  • SD/SDHC/SDXC Memory Card Slot
  • 1/2000 to 30 Second Shutter Speeds
  • Bokeh Control Filter
  • Traditional DSLR Shooting Modes
07-13-2011, 12:58 PM   #686
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Pure speculation re bokeh control: perhaps the Q takes multiple shots (focus bracketing) and then blends them, kind of like HDR.
07-13-2011, 01:09 PM   #687
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QuoteOriginally posted by Christine Tham Quote
Pure speculation re bokeh control: perhaps the Q takes multiple shots (focus bracketing) and then blends them, kind of like HDR.
That chart I quoted was from the specs listed at BH. They got that from Pentax. How it does it or whether that is a mistake by marketing, who knows. It is possible that it is some sort of image processing in camera. the m4/3 bodies for example adjust out barrel distortion when shooting in jpg which makes the Panny 14, 20 and Oly 17mm luck a lot better optically than they are in regards to barrel distortion. In this case for the Q, it is a special effects processing.
07-13-2011, 01:43 PM   #688
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QuoteOriginally posted by Blue Quote
That chart I quoted was from the specs listed at BH. They got that from Pentax.
As mentioned earlier, Pentax released a 3 page Q&A document on the Q at PMA - their description of the bokeh control in there implies it's more than just software processing.

However, it's still pretty vague. My suggestion of focus bracketing is my interpretation of the description in that document - it's quite possible it's something completely different.

The document says the bokeh control relies on more than just subject distance but also distance of background objects in relation to the subject. That implies some degree of interaction between the AF and the control.
07-13-2011, 02:28 PM   #689
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Yeah, I agree about the price point-I guess it would have been OK a few years ago when there were some high end compacts and there were no micro-four thirds.

Maybe it'll make a profit in asia and some of the features will trickle down to their not very inspiring compacts...
07-13-2011, 02:37 PM   #690
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Oh and no offence caused. Love how friendly the forums are here.

I guess perhaps the only good thing about this is people are talking about Pentax again. And at least the name is not z51263456 or something stupid (I hate excessively numbered names!)
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