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09-14-2011, 05:03 PM   #46
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The user manual is online:

However:

... no AF in video mode ...
So, this statement in the manual is in contradiction with the fashion diary.

In the diary, two claims are made:
  1. Focus tracking during video works great
  2. A prototype wireless flash mounted to the Q's hot shoe worked as expected
(while users here in the forum had trouble to fire their 3rd party flashes).

It would be great if both statements prove true. For the moment, I am puzzled about the contradictions...

09-14-2011, 07:08 PM   #47
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Okay, I just tested Autofocus in video mode.

There are two settings for focus in video mode: AF and MF

With MF, you have full manual focus. Before you start recording, moving the focus ring or hitting OK will magnify the view so you can pre-focus the shot. After you start recording, these focus aids are not accessible.

With AF, half pressing the shutter release will prefocus the camera. However, it does NOT change focus as the camera distance changes. Half pressing the shutter or hitting ok while recording do nothing. If you turn the focus ring while recording and while in AF mode, it DOES change the focus.

So in summary, the only difference between AF and MF mode are the pre-focusing period before you start recording video.

Hope this helps alleviate the confusion. Now if only I could get my Q to fire manual flashes and wireless flash triggers! (EDIT: I figured out I can fire manual flashes and flash triggers if I set the internal flash to OFF instead of just disabling the flash by retracting the built in flash. Flash is now working fine.)

Last edited by devorama; 09-15-2011 at 01:06 AM.
09-14-2011, 07:20 PM   #48
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
So, this statement in the manual is in contradiction with the fashion diary.
It would be great if both statements prove true. For the moment, I am puzzled about the contradictions...
Someone isn't right here, let's hope the functionality is there...


QuoteOriginally posted by devorama Quote
Hope this helps alleviate the confusion. Now if only I could get my Q to fire manual flashes and wireless flash triggers!
Have you contacted Pentax about that? It seems really odd the Q would have a standard Pentax hot-shoe and not be able to fire off a simple manual flash/trigger.

Last edited by sjwaldron; 09-16-2011 at 10:41 AM.
09-14-2011, 08:26 PM   #49
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
Either the writer of the article has no idea what they are talking about, or they have a different firmware than people in this forum...


.
This is really confusing, in this video with normal lens he also thinks that AF probably works. Someone who has comera could confirm this.



09-15-2011, 12:00 AM   #50
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QuoteOriginally posted by zxaar Quote
This is really confusing, in this video with normal lens he also thinks that AF probably works. Someone who has comera could confirm this.
Devorama did confirm it and said it only works for pre-focusing on his camera. That's why I'm saying either the person on Adorama has new firmware, or they don't know what they are talking about.
09-15-2011, 12:00 PM   #51
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QuoteOriginally posted by Oog Quote
In other words, to me, "mirrorless DSLR" = video camera, for imaging purposes.
There is no such thing as a "mirrorless DSLR". If there is no mirror, it isn't a SLR
QuoteOriginally posted by Oog Quote
Does anyone start to see the redundancy in creating a DSLR with an optical viewfinder?
See above.
09-16-2011, 10:38 AM   #52
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QuoteOriginally posted by devorama Quote
So in summary, the only difference between AF and MF mode are the pre-focusing period before you start recording video.

Hope this helps alleviate the confusion. Now if only I could get my Q to fire manual flashes and wireless flash triggers! (EDIT: I figured out I can fire manual flashes and flash triggers if I set the internal flash to OFF instead of just disabling the flash by retracting the built in flash. Flash is now working fine.)
The girl from the Adorama responded with this:
QuoteQuote:
As far as the AF with video - yes it does work. The printed manual says so and in video mode there is a separate menu when you push the info button for the AF. You can select Tracking or face detect. You can also switch it to manual focus.
Can you confirm this functionality?
09-16-2011, 12:01 PM   #53
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The author of the diary responded:

Q:
QuoteQuote:
AF in video mode?

You write in this article: "...it [the Q] does do something my 7D can't, tracking focus in movie mode". Pentax writes on p.110 of their manual available online ( http://www.pentaximaging.com/images/temp/63450924415047911335220manual_q_en_official.pdf ): "While recording a movie, the autofocus system does not operate". This is in clear contradiction. Can you explain, please? Kind regards, Falk

by Falk Lumo in Munich, Germany on September 15, 2011
A:
QuoteQuote:
AF In Video Mode

Hi Falk, In the printed manual I had, page 112 discusses the AF function. Also when in video mode when you push the INFO button there is a separate AF menu where you can select the tracking method, either standard or face detect or switch the camera to manual focus. We should have the Timo Weiland video up by Monday, so you can see it in action for yourself.

by The Author in NYC on September 16, 2011
Let me repeat that the online manual says:
QuoteQuote:
When recording a movie, regardless of the focus method setting, recording starts when the shutter release button is pressed fully even if the subject is not in focus.
While recording a movie, the autofocus system does not operate.
and it does so on p.112 ...

The fact that one can select the AF method in video mode means nothing. You can do so on a K-5 (while in Movie mode, press Menu->Live View->AF method). It controls what the camera does when pressing AF prior to starting a recording. I fear the author didn't test if AF actually did anything. With the deep DoF, it may be difficult to notice AF didn't work ...


Last edited by falconeye; 09-16-2011 at 12:09 PM.
09-16-2011, 12:29 PM   #54
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote

The fact that one can select the AF method in video mode means nothing. You can do so on a K-5 (while in Movie mode, press Menu->Live View->AF method). It controls what the camera does when pressing AF prior to starting a recording. I fear the author didn't test if AF actually did anything. With the deep DoF, it may be difficult to notice AF didn't work ...
I'm guessing that's the case. When in video mode, hitting INFO will bring up the tiled screen that lets you adjust many parameters. When I did this, the focus options were only AF and MF. No focus tracking or face detection. Again, this is while in video mode. These modes become available when in still camera modes. So I'm already suspecting the tester is confused if they say these modes are available in video mode.

I actually tested the focus modes by setting the camera to AF, pre-focusing, starting the recording, then walking towards my target. It very obviously lost focus. All the OK pressing and shutter half-presses did nothing to change the focus. I suspect a bit of confirmation bias is at play if the other tester just assumed that things looked in focus while in AF mode. The huge depth of field of the small sensor would make it easy to overlook this unless you specifically tested for it.
09-16-2011, 12:29 PM   #55
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QuoteOriginally posted by falconeye Quote
The author of the diary responded:
The fact that one can select the AF method in video mode means nothing. You can do so on a K-5 (while in Movie mode, press Menu->Live View->AF method). It controls what the camera does when pressing AF prior to starting a recording. I fear the author didn't test if AF actually did anything. With the deep DoF, it may be difficult to notice AF didn't work ...
Yeah, chances are she doesn't understand how it works.

She was right about the flash though. At least we know the internal flash just needs to be turned off so that the hot-shoe can have full control.

I wish one of us had a Q so we could easily say if it works or not. My local camera dealer that's big on Pentax isn't going to stock the Q most likely. Otherwise I'd go check one out to confirm this. I'd put my bets in the manual being correct unless she has a newer firmware somehow.
09-16-2011, 12:43 PM   #56
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QuoteOriginally posted by sjwaldron Quote
Yeah, chances are she doesn't understand how it works.

She was right about the flash though. At least we know the internal flash just needs to be turned off so that the hot-shoe can have full control.

I wish one of us had a Q so we could easily say if it works or not. My local camera dealer that's big on Pentax isn't going to stock the Q most likely. Otherwise I'd go check one out to confirm this. I'd put my bets in the manual being correct unless she has a newer firmware somehow.
Actually, I think Sandy Ramirez is a man.

Sandy Ramirez from Adorama Learning Center

Also, I'm the one that commented about the flash. It works like a non-ttl hotshoe when flash mode is OFF, but will run P-TTL, red-eye reduction, etc. for the external flash when those modes are set. It's just a bit counter-intuitive that you can make the hotshoe behave differently by setting the flash to OFF. It seems it's not sufficient to turn the built in flash off by just retracting it. You must also set it to OFF.

Maybe I need to make a video to show all these quirks and to finally prove that AF does not work in video mode.
09-16-2011, 02:21 PM   #57
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QuoteOriginally posted by devorama Quote

I'm the one that commented about the flash. It works like a non-ttl hotshoe when flash mode is OFF, but will run P-TTL, red-eye reduction, etc. for the external flash when those modes are set. It's just a bit counter-intuitive that you can make the hotshoe behave differently by setting the flash to OFF. It seems it's not sufficient to turn the built in flash off by just retracting it. You must also set it to OFF.
Hi devorama,

It's my understanding that retracting the flash does not turn it off (it can discharge in the retracted position), unless you specifically turn this off in the Custom Menu (item 10 according to the manual). For me, allowing the flash to discharge in the retracted condition would be a good thing as I could use it as a trigger for a digital slave without exposing it to breakage in the extended position. This ability to fire in the retracted position is possibly a reasonable explanation for the need to turn the internal flash off in the menu to get non preflash mode in the hotshoe. Is it possible that if you disallow the popup flash to fire in the retracted position, you might not need to also turn the flash off in the menu?

Back to the topic of AF in video, an 8.5 mm f1.8 lens on a 1/2" sensored camera (the closest I could get to the Q in my online DOF calculator) will have a hyperfocal distance of under 8.5 feet, so I wonder if no AF in video is really a problem in practice?

Scott

Last edited by snostorm; 09-16-2011 at 03:38 PM.
09-17-2011, 02:07 AM   #58
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QuoteOriginally posted by snostorm Quote
Back to the topic of AF in video, an 8.5 mm f1.8 lens on a 1/2" sensored camera (the closest I could get to the Q in my online DOF calculator) will have a hyperfocal distance of under 8.5 feet, so I wonder if no AF in video is really a problem in practice?
The Q's hyperfocal distance in video mode at f/1.8 for sharp pixels (3m apart which is less than Q's pixel pitch due to the lower video rez) is 44 ft or 1.3 m. So, everything between 68cm and infinity can be kept sharp.

That's a lot but not everything.

That's a reason why AF in video never was an issue with P&S or camcorders: AF doesn't have to do much, just detect very near subjects.
09-17-2011, 02:12 AM   #59
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QuoteOriginally posted by snostorm Quote
Hi devorama,

It's my understanding that retracting the flash does not turn it off (it can discharge in the retracted position), unless you specifically turn this off in the Custom Menu (item 10 according to the manual). For me, allowing the flash to discharge in the retracted condition would be a good thing as I could use it as a trigger for a digital slave without exposing it to breakage in the extended position. This ability to fire in the retracted position is possibly a reasonable explanation for the need to turn the internal flash off in the menu to get non preflash mode in the hotshoe. Is it possible that if you disallow the popup flash to fire in the retracted position, you might not need to also turn the flash off in the menu?

Scott
I just tested all the scenarios out very exhaustively. See my thread in this same forum if you're curious.
09-19-2011, 12:44 PM   #60
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Yeah, with such DoF, AF in Video or not isn't a big deal.
Not even sure a clueless user would realize AF didn't work... (which doesn't mean you guys are clueless, that's not AT ALL what I mean).
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