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09-27-2011, 06:33 PM   #1
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External flash for the Q

I decided I'd like a small external flash for the Q. Instead of a PTTL flash, I bought a Metz 20C-2. It has a full power mode with a GN of 20m at 35mm and also auto modes at F/2.8 and F/5.6.



And the best of all, it has a bounce mode! I took this picture of my dogs with it bounced off the ceiling and bounce card.



I think it's a great size and nice if you want a non-PTTL flash.

09-27-2011, 09:40 PM   #2
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Thats darn neat. Does the flash run on AA or AAA? Great looking setup.

The leaf shutter allows flash sync at 1\2000 with built in flash. External flash is supposed to be 1\250.

Does anyone know if this can somehow be modified with firmware or is it a hardware based?
thanks
barondla
09-27-2011, 10:57 PM   #3
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QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Thats darn neat. Does the flash run on AA or AAA? Great looking setup.

The leaf shutter allows flash sync at 1\2000 with built in flash. External flash is supposed to be 1\250.

Does anyone know if this can somehow be modified with firmware or is it a hardware based?
thanks
barondla
It takes 2 AA batteries.
I tried to set the shutter to faster than 1/250. When you do that, the external flash does not fire at all.
09-28-2011, 12:17 AM   #4
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Nice shot devorama.
The Pentax AF200FG is P-TTL but doesn't bounce indeed.
I suppose the maximum shutter-speed can't be modified even by firmware as it is linked to lenses' physical shutter.

By the way, i have a problem using the internal flash with toy lenses : impossible to have a correct exposure... did you try ?

09-28-2011, 12:42 AM   #5
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Hi devorama,

Didn't even know this flash existed -- nice find at a nice price!

I've had my eye on the Metz 24 AF 1 for Pentax to use with the Q when I get one -- probably about the same size with the same bounce reflector but with P-TTL. Even though a bit underpowered according to conventional wisdom, it will be a very convenient take-just-about-everywhere flash for the K-5 also since one can make up for lack of flash power with higher ISO without having to do any mental conversions since it's using P-TTL. It's only @ $90.

Unlike many, I have few complaints with P-TTL, been using it with 5 bodies and 3 flashes, and find it useful in most cases, but I shoot mostly on camera flash with modifiers and very basic remote wireless TTL.

In response to the question of faster than 1/250 sync speed for external flash, I believe that this is a limitation of the flash units, and changing the camera firmware really wouldn't make it any faster.

Scott
09-28-2011, 01:15 AM   #6
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How long it takes a flash to output its full power varies, and Pentax apparently felt that 1/250 was the fastest safe speed. There's no reason a leaf shutter shouldn't sync at all speeds, indeed I can't see how you could stop it, except by having inexact timing of the flash firing.

There's no reason not to allow this to be overridden except if they think people will do it and then blame Pentax if their flash doesn't handle it (underexposes). The Q is priced for enthusiasts, so I think they are wrong to deny people this possibility. (I assume it can use HSS on modern flashes, which is actually pretty silly with a leaf shutter. But might explain why they want you to not be able to use old flashes fully.)
09-28-2011, 02:53 AM   #7
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Inexact timing, or delay in information transmission to the flash.

The "standard" LS lenses are directly connected to external flash.

The story is luckily different with the internal flash, that can handle up to 1/2000s synch. speed.
09-28-2011, 06:08 AM   #8
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That's HUUUUUGE...lol, i would mount my Canon 270 on it a little smaller profile ...cute Pugs

09-28-2011, 09:21 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
...

By the way, i have a problem using the internal flash with toy lenses : impossible to have a correct exposure... did you try ?
Which toy lens are you using?
The telephoto is a fixed F/8 aperture. The internal flash has a GN of 7m at ISO 200. So your effective flash distance is 7/8 meters at ISO 200. So the problem here could be the small aperture.

The fisheye lens has an effective FoV of 17.5mm. The flash only covers 28mm. So with the fisheye, you'll only get a bright spot in the center.

The wide angle lens might be your best bet. Equivalent field of view of 35mm means the frame will be covered by the flash. Aperture of F/7.1 means you will have a 1 meter range at ISO200. If you need to shoot further, you can get 1.4 meters at ISO400 or 2 meters at ISO 800.

But as you can see from my photo, there's no substitute for a higher powered bounce flash. This tiny flash has a GN of 20m at ISO 100 which would be GN of 28m at ISO 200. That's 4 times the distance covered by the internal flash.
10-20-2011, 02:32 AM   #10
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Problems with external AF200FG Flash

Hi everybody,
For the first, excuse my english, I am from Germany, hope you understand it.
Maybe someone of the Q user could help me, if Pentax Germany doesn´t.
I own the pentax Q with double lens kit, last week I buyed a used flash. The pics i shot with the standard zoom in wide angle position are totally overexposed, the flash uses full energy, in telephoto position, the flash regulate better. With the standard prime lens, its a little better. The flash seems to regulate the brightness, but not every pic is ok.
Now, is it a Q single problem or firmware problem, or could the flash be defective ? The internal flash works "fine" maybe a little to dark.

Thank you, i hope my problem help other people too.

Alfred
10-20-2011, 05:45 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by devorama Quote
Which toy lens are you using?
...
Sorry for this late reply.
I use mainly the Wide and Tele toys, the problem comes from the fixed exposure with flash speed at 1/13s, with these lenses

@ Aljun : i am afraid this might be an other problem with the Q.

On my side i have experienced the Hanimex X214 external flash, it definitely doesn't work with the Q, whereas it is OK with K20D or K-5.
I sincerely hope Pentax will care seriously and quickly for all these "flash hick-ups".

Last edited by Zygonyx; 10-20-2011 at 05:50 AM.
10-20-2011, 05:57 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aljun Quote
Hi everybody,
For the first, excuse my english, I am from Germany, hope you understand it.
Maybe someone of the Q user could help me, if Pentax Germany doesn´t.
I own the pentax Q with double lens kit, last week I buyed a used flash. The pics i shot with the standard zoom in wide angle position are totally overexposed, the flash uses full energy, in telephoto position, the flash regulate better. With the standard prime lens, its a little better. The flash seems to regulate the brightness, but not every pic is ok.
Now, is it a Q single problem or firmware problem, or could the flash be defective ? The internal flash works "fine" maybe a little to dark.

Thank you, i hope my problem help other people too.

Alfred
Does your flash have PTTL mode or is it in Automatic mode? My flash, Metz 58-AF-2 tends to underexpose when in PTTL mode unless I use a diffuser. In automatic mode I can get a good exposure but it uses a stronger flash. My flash model recommends I used the built-in diffuser for any lens less then 12mm formal length. This would apply to the Prime, Telephoto, and Fish eye lenses.
10-20-2011, 05:59 AM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by Zygonyx Quote
Sorry for this late reply.
I use mainly the Wide and Tele toys, the problem comes from the fixed exposure with flash speed at 1/13s, with these lenses

@ Aljun : i am afraid this might be an other problem with the Q.

On my side i have experienced the Hanimex X214 external flash, it definitely doesn't work with the Q, whereas it is OK with K20D or K-5.
I sincerely hope Pentax will care seriously and quickly for all these "flash hick-ups".
Yes I'm not sure what might be the problem as I don't have a Pentax flash, just a compatible version. It works fine with K-x PTTL mode but tends to underexpose significantly when bounce flashing without a diffuser. Again, this might be due to the lens as my flash recommends a diffuser for 12mm focal lengths or less and then it seems to work just fine. However in Automatic mode I get great exposures when bounce flashing with no problem.
10-20-2011, 06:59 AM   #14
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Thanks all for the first
my flash is a pentax af200fg, should be compatible with the Q, has P-TTL Mode and run in Automode. Will send both send next week to Pentax.
Does anybody know, how the TTL-Data comes to the flash? Did the flash regulate the time of flashing or do the camera send a "Stop flashing" when enough light is in the picture?
Sorry for the english again.
10-20-2011, 07:48 AM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Aljun Quote
Thanks all for the first
my flash is a pentax af200fg, should be compatible with the Q, has P-TTL Mode and run in Automode. Will send both send next week to Pentax.
Does anybody know, how the TTL-Data comes to the flash? Did the flash regulate the time of flashing or do the camera send a "Stop flashing" when enough light is in the picture?
Sorry for the english again.
Aljun, can you adjust the brightness by changing the dial on the back of the flash? There are 4 modes:
100% power
Auto
-0.5
-0.7

If you are using the 100% power mode, the flash will always fire at full power. If you use the Auto mode, it should give a correct exposure. And you should be able to reduce the power Auto chooses by choosing -0.5 or -0.7. If the Auto, -0.5, and -0.7 settings are all over-exposed, then maybe your flash is always firing at full power.

The P-TTL flash meters by first shooting a low-power pre-flash. From that, the camera determines how much more power it would need to properly expose the image. Then it fires the flash again at the power it thinks is needed.
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