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03-11-2012, 08:56 AM   #1
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Wide converter for the Q? Any thoughts?

I am happy with the Q's 01 prime lens, its just a little narrow sometimes. For going wide there would be the 02 zoom option (a bit large), the toy wide (quality issues), the fish eye (its a fish eye...) or getting a step-up ring for the prime 01 from 40,5 to 43/52/56... and combining it with a wide converter. Does anyone have any experience with this kind of set-up or could recommend a good wide converter for the prime?

03-11-2012, 10:12 AM   #2
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I tried no-name wide and tele converters via a 37mm step-down ring, the results were expectedly poor. Doubt that you will do much better with 52mm for example, because the front element diameter of the Q prime is small enough for the 37mm option that I tried. The quality is just not there unless you are willing to fork out a large sum for a supposedly better tele/wide converter, but then you might as well add a bit more and buy the Q zoom
03-11-2012, 11:10 AM   #3
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If you're discounting the 02 zoom because it's too big, you probably wouldn't be happy with the size if the 01 prime plus converter. You could also get a C-mount converter and manual lens. There are high quality C mount lenses in many focal lengths. And they will be faster too.
03-11-2012, 11:13 AM   #4
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kirill_est Quote
I tried no-name wide and tele converters via a 37mm step-down ring, the results were expectedly poor. Doubt that you will do much better with 52mm for example, because the front element diameter of the Q prime is small enough for the 37mm option that I tried. The quality is just not there unless you are willing to fork out a large sum for a supposedly better tele/wide converter, but then you might as well add a bit more and buy the Q zoom
I think the step-down option will always lead to lower quality, a step-up should be better. In fact, I just found a decent deal for a Konica-Minolta wide angle lens (used to be EUR 120 until being discontinued) for EUR 29 plus a Hama step-up ring (40,5 -> 43mm) at EUR 11. And then there is this which is making me curious:
43mm 0.45x Weitwinkelkonverter: Amazon.de: Elektronik

P.S.: Here is a pic of the very slim wide-converter by Konica-Minolta:
http://geizhals.at/eu/115265

03-11-2012, 02:49 PM   #5
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Stern, the first link is basically same generic stuff that I tried, don't waste your time and money. 37mm or 43mm or 52mm, won't matter really. But the second option (KONICA MINOLTA ZCW-200) that I can see available on Amazon DE for 29 euros seems like a better option, might invest in it myself when I buy the Q zoom, to make the wide angle wider
03-11-2012, 03:31 PM   #6
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QuoteOriginally posted by Kirill_est Quote
Stern, the first link is basically same generic stuff that I tried, don't waste your time and money. 37mm or 43mm or 52mm, won't matter really. But the second option (KONICA MINOLTA ZCW-200) that I can see available on Amazon DE for 29 euros seems like a better option, might invest in it myself when I buy the Q zoom, to make the wide angle wider
Then you'll have to hurry!

I just ordered one of the Minoltas (plus a Hama step-up ring). There won't be too many around any more considering the Konica-Minolta camera business nowadays... Concerning the C-mount option, the adapter-ring isn't that expensive, but the choice of lenses is HUGE and confusing and I have absolutely no clue about the quality (there are c-mounties on E-Bay for almost nothing and as expensive as EUR 1400,-).
03-14-2012, 10:11 AM   #7
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if you were to explore some of the D Mount movie lenses, you might be satisfied with the focal length. Many D Mount wide angle lenses have focal lengths around 5.5mm, or somewhere around 30mm equivalence after the crop factor. Also, some D Mount wide angle lenses are Fixed Focus, so you wouldn't have to worry about manually focusing the lens, but that of course depends on your preferences. There's the Kern Pizar 5.5mm f1.9 for Bolex 8mm movie cameras that shows up on ebay time and again, which would be a good choice, or the Wollensak 6.5mm f/1.8 Raptar. But honestly, there are many different options in D Mount wide angle movie lenses. I've heard that there might be some vignetting while using D Mount, so be aware of that.

there are also C Mount security camera lenses that would get you even wider. I've seen some 2.8mm, 3.6mm and 4mm lenses for that application. However, I've not seen anyone use one of these yet to know what kind of image they would produce. they are incredibly cheap, so that might be an indication of their optical quality...

Last edited by emergo; 03-14-2012 at 10:29 AM.
03-14-2012, 12:03 PM   #8
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QuoteOriginally posted by emergo Quote
if you were to explore some of the D Mount movie lenses, you might be satisfied with the focal length. Many D Mount wide angle lenses have focal lengths around 5.5mm, or somewhere around 30mm equivalence after the crop factor. Also, some D Mount wide angle lenses are Fixed Focus, so you wouldn't have to worry about manually focusing the lens, but that of course depends on your preferences. There's the Kern Pizar 5.5mm f1.9 for Bolex 8mm movie cameras that shows up on ebay time and again, which would be a good choice, or the Wollensak 6.5mm f/1.8 Raptar. But honestly, there are many different options in D Mount wide angle movie lenses. I've heard that there might be some vignetting while using D Mount, so be aware of that.

there are also C Mount security camera lenses that would get you even wider. I've seen some 2.8mm, 3.6mm and 4mm lenses for that application. However, I've not seen anyone use one of these yet to know what kind of image they would produce. they are incredibly cheap, so that might be an indication of their optical quality...
Thanks!
I checked ebay and there are some obviously tempting lenses (c-mount), but the wide ones are extremely expensive, the most expensive I've seen was appr. EUR 1300,-... Can you use *any* type of c-mount lens? I had the impression that are different types, but as I've posted before, c-mount land is completely foreign to me.

03-14-2012, 12:05 PM   #9
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I bought a wide convertor from a vendor on Ebay. It was very inexpensive, and doubles up as a macro lens too. Results are suprisingly good, and it looks pretty cool mounted on the 8.5mm prime lens. For the cost, was definitely worth buying.

BK 40.5mm 0.45X Wide-Angle Lens For Pentax Q Camera 8.5mm 5-15mm Lens | eBay
03-14-2012, 12:09 PM   #10
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Beware!

QuoteOriginally posted by Kirill_est Quote
Stern, the first link is basically same generic stuff that I tried, don't waste your time and money. 37mm or 43mm or 52mm, won't matter really. But the second option (KONICA MINOLTA ZCW-200) that I can see available on Amazon DE for 29 euros seems like a better option, might invest in it myself when I buy the Q zoom, to make the wide angle wider
I just tried the Konica-Minolta converter. The Q can't focus (neither M nor AF) with that piece of glass. Everything stay either blurred or very blurred. The flange-distance might be the problem (very small on the Q, huge on the Konica-Minolta bridge camera for which this specific lens was made). Its a pity because its an extremely well made lens. Its going back tomorrow.
03-14-2012, 12:22 PM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by sprocketdog23 Quote
I bought a wide convertor from a vendor on Ebay. It was very inexpensive, and doubles up as a macro lens too. Results are suprisingly good, and it looks pretty cool mounted on the 8.5mm prime lens. For the cost, was definitely worth buying.

BK 40.5mm 0.45X Wide-Angle Lens For Pentax Q Camera 8.5mm 5-15mm Lens | eBay
Can you post some example images?
03-14-2012, 12:30 PM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by stern Quote
Thanks!
I checked ebay and there are some obviously tempting lenses (c-mount), but the wide ones are extremely expensive, the most expensive I've seen was appr. EUR 1300,-... Can you use *any* type of c-mount lens? I had the impression that are different types, but as I've posted before, c-mount land is completely foreign to me.
I've used C Mount only with movie cameras, and they are standardized. I do not know if the C Mount on Security Cameras (I think I've seen it listed as "CS Mount") is the same. Sorry I can't answer that one.

When I get my Q, I will be trying out my various D Mount lenses on it. I would find D mounts preferable to C mounts for the wide angle - to get a wide angle field of view on the Q, you need to get down to the 5 to 6mm focal length. I do not know if C Mounts cover that range. D Mounts can be had much cheaper, as well.

However, if I read the Pentax Lens Roadmap correctly, there is a Q Wide Angle lens coming in the next year. I believe there was talk of it being a pancake, so it'll be much more compact than the 01 Prime. that would be a must have lens for me.

Last edited by emergo; 03-14-2012 at 12:40 PM.
03-14-2012, 12:45 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by stern Quote
I just tried the Konica-Minolta converter. The Q can't focus (neither M nor AF) with that piece of glass. Everything stay either blurred or very blurred. The flange-distance might be the problem (very small on the Q, huge on the Konica-Minolta bridge camera for which this specific lens was made). Its a pity because its an extremely well made lens. Its going back tomorrow.
Hmm, it did seem suitable based on the specs, pity that is not the case in real life. Although from my understanding of the flange distance concept, it should not affect such and add-on lens if the main lens to which it is added can by itself be properly focused. In any case, thanks for the warning, I hope you can return yours without any hassle.
03-14-2012, 03:14 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by stern Quote
Thanks!
I checked ebay and there are some obviously tempting lenses (c-mount), but the wide ones are extremely expensive, the most expensive I've seen was appr. EUR 1300,-... Can you use *any* type of c-mount lens? I had the impression that are different types, but as I've posted before, c-mount land is completely foreign to me.

Hi stern,

I'm no authority on C mount lenses, but I do know that they are made for different format sensors/film, so the image circle size can be a problem. I believe that the formats range from 1/3" to 1", so there would be vignetting on the small format lenses and actually a "crop" factor on the larger format lenses. The 1/3" lenses will most likely vignette, the 1/2" lenses will probably vignette a bit, especially if Pentax enables SR with adapted lenses. The 2/3" and 1" lenses should work fine, but there will be "crop factors" involved, so the lenses will shoot tighter than the FL might imply.

Also, there are CCTV lenses made for security cameras that are generally low resolution, and better optics made for TV and movie cameras. The later are sometimes rated as megapixel lenses, but older lenses aren't necessarily so designated, so it's easy to get confused. Some of the security camera lenses are very fast as this is useful for the purpose, but in these lenses, fast doesn't necessarily equate to good optics like it usually does in 35mm camera lenses.

The CS mount is different from C mount, with a shorter flange distance, and my understanding is that CS mount lenses are usually designed for 1/2" and smaller sensors, so vignetting can be a problem with the larger 1/2.3" sensor in the Q.

I've decided to not explore the C mount possibilities until I become more familiar with these lenses. I'll let those that are a bit more adventurous and/or knowledgeable pave the way here, even though I do have a C mount adapter for the Q.

Scott
03-14-2012, 10:59 PM   #15
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Just a coupe of clarifications:

QuoteOriginally posted by snostorm Quote
I'm no authority on C mount lenses, but I do know that they are made for different format sensors/film, so the image circle size can be a problem. I believe that the formats range from 1/3" to 1", so there would be vignetting on the small format lenses and actually a "crop" factor on the larger format lenses. The 1/3" lenses will most likely vignette, the 1/2" lenses will probably vignette a bit, especially if Pentax enables SR with adapted lenses. The 2/3" and 1" lenses should work fine, but there will be "crop factors" involved, so the lenses will shoot tighter than the FL might imply.
The 1/2" image circle is big enough that vignetting is not really a factor for the 1/2.3" image sensor. The 1/3" ones will vignette though. Also, even though the 2/3" and 1" sensors are bigger, there is no crop factor. The Field of View will be the same on a 6mm lens with 1/2.3" sensor whether or not it's designed for a 1/2" sensor or a 1" sensor. The difference will be the image circle size. Of course, if the image circle is too small, it will vignette and you won't be able to see the edges of your image. But the size of the objects projected will be the same.

So you can get a 25mm C-mount lens designed for 2/3" sensor and mount it to your Q and it will show the same Field of View (aka same crop factor of 5.5x) as mounting a 25mm full frame lens on appropriate adapters.

Also, many of these C-mount lenses actually have a projected image circle that's a decent amount bigger than the rated sensor size. You can use some C-mount lenses designed for a 1" sensor on a micro 4/3 camera that has a 4/3" sensor, with only minor vignetting.
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