Focus Peaking for the Q with Firmware 1.1

snostorm · 10-26-2012, 09:15 AM

Originally posted by Aegon

I'm having trouble using an external manual (non-pttl) flash on adapted lenses, even with the slow 1/13 sync speed. Is this just me? I feel like Q+Flash is a guessing game even under the best circumstances. Sometimes 1/2000, sometimes 1/250, sometimes 1/13, sometimes impossible.

Hi Aegon,

Here's what I know about the Q with flash. . .and I could be wrong about some or all. . .

Non dedicated external flash will only fire with Q system lenses and flash menu turned to "flash off". They will not be triggered with adapted lenses, even with the FW update.

P-TTL external flash seems to work pretty consistently so far with adapted lenses. I've been using a Metz 24 AF1. The camera meters, but the best way to get consistent results is to use a fixed ISO. When in auto ISO, the camera tends to set up shutter speed and or ISO for a non flash exposure, so Av priority with a fixed ISO seems to be the best way for me to go -- use Ev comp to fine adjust the exposure. This seems counterintuitive since P-TTL in the DSLRs requires communication between the lens and the body, but I guess it just meters with the preflash and controls the flash output and duration to get close. The popup flash seems to be not as consistent -- I get one or two shots that fire the flash, then one or two where the flash fails to fire. Before the update, both popup and external P-TTL flashes would only fire intermittently, and only when the flash menu was set to redeye reduction or slow sync. Now external P-TTL flashes seem to fire consistently with the flash menu set to "flash on".

The popup flash will sync with Q system AF lenses up to 1/2000, but external flashes will only sync to 1/250. I believe that the limitation is in the external flash guns. With adapted lenses the camera defaults to the electronic shutter, and because CMOS sensors clear, expose, and then dump in sequential rows, 1/13 of a sec is needed to get a full frame exposure with flash. This is why the Pentax K to Q adapter is worth the money IMO. With the integral shutter, we should get sync up to 1/1000 (the limit of the adapter shutter) with the popup, and hopefully up to 1/250 with adapted lenses.

With P-TTL external flash firing consistently, and the Pentax adapter, I can do what I need to do for the most part (outdoor macro), so I won't raise the roof about this. . .

This is the only area where I'm disappointed with the FW update. I've always held that Pentax should make the Q as external flash compatible as any of the DSLRs, and it's pretty far from any industry standard as is. I've written and called Pentax Imaging USA concerning this, and have been told that my complaints have been forwarded to Japan. If others will do the same, maybe we can get some action concerning this. . .might as well ask for remote TTL with the popup as Master or Controller as well. . .

Scott

Aegon · 10-26-2012, 10:43 AM

Thanks Scott.

For some reason I mistakenly thought that I could use a manual flash with adapted lenses (that is, without the new K-Q adapter with built-in shutter) prior to the latest firmware, so I mistakenly thought the new firmware disabled that. But as you point out, the old firmware apparently never allowed this anyway.

Maybe I should get a small P-TTL flash. Or maybe just get the Pentax K-Q adapter. But I think instead I'll use Optical Slave Mode and use the built-in flash to trigger the slave.

VisualDarkness · 10-26-2012, 10:53 AM

My Q looks and feel absurd with my Sigma EF530 on it so yeah, a small flash would be better.

GXRUser · 10-26-2012, 11:01 AM - **1 Like**

Originally posted by panoguy

If this was the "old" Pentax (no new features in firmware updates), a new camera might have been required! Great to hear that Ricoh/Pentax is much more responsive to existing users, and is keeping the Q format going! (Still gonna get that Q10. I want silver!)

I wanted a black Q10... Now all have to do is to update the Q!

snostorm · 10-26-2012, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by VisualDarkness

My Q looks and feel absurd with my Sigma EF530 on it so yeah, a small flash would be better.

Hi VisualDarkness,

Take a look at the Metz 24 AF-1. It's P-TTL only, but is very small and light, and the reflector tilts up to 90°. At $90 USD, it doesn't break the bank, only uses 2 AAAs, is relatively low power, but with good high ISO, we don't need as much power as we did with slow film. It allows you to take a flash just about all the time, and unless you like to do fancy bouncing off of side walls and from behind you, this can be a very useful flash for your DSLR also.

Metz mecablitz 24AF-1 Digital Flash for Pentax Camera MZ 24317PS

The one drawback for some is that it's P-TTL only.

Scott

ve2vfd · 10-26-2012, 01:40 PM

Originally posted by VisualDarkness

My Q looks and feel absurd with my Sigma EF530 on it

LOL! Yeah I know the feeling... even my AF360 (which is not a huge flash) is larger than my Q so it looks kinda silly an is very unwieldy and unbalanced.

I've been thinking of ordering an off camera cable for it though, that could be interesting!

Pat

Shawn67 · 10-26-2012, 02:11 PM

Having SR for my big glass is a very nice upgrade.

Now for v 1.11 Pentax should take a couple of features from the OMD for use with adapted lenses...

1) Allow SR to be activated on half shutter press. The current option of having it active all the time seems like a waste of battery power.
2) Increase the available focus assist magnification
3) All the focus assist magnification to stay active with half a shutter press (so it can work with #1)

Shawn

snostorm · 10-26-2012, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by Shawn67

Having SR for my big glass is a very nice upgrade.

Now for v 1.11 Pentax should take a couple of features from the OMD for use with adapted lenses...

1) Allow SR to be activated on half shutter press. The current option of having it active all the time seems like a waste of battery power.
2) Increase the available focus assist magnification
3) All the focus assist magnification to stay active with half a shutter press (so it can work with #1)

Hi Shawn,

The Q allows SR to be activated on the half shutter or all the time as the user chooses. Having it on all the time does help one to stay on target if handholding, but it eats batteries like crazy, and battery longevity has never been an advantage for the Q. Good thing they're cheap and small. . .

Although I agree with your last two points, I don't find either a high priority for me. The Peaking works pretty well for me though it is subtle if there's low contast.

Scott

Shawn67 · 10-26-2012, 02:54 PM

"The Q allows SR to be activated on the half shutter or all the time as the user chooses."

Option 1 allows SR to be activated when it is firing the shutter, not on half a shutter press. I just double checked and it is definitely not on during half shutter press. Option 2 is on all the time which is a waste of battery.

Shawn

emergo · 10-26-2012, 03:40 PM

Originally posted by crewl1

Turn it on via the menu for camera, page 1, Focus Settings

Move the focus ring on the lens and look for the bright highlights to appear on the edge of the item you want to focus on.

here's an awesome little video from Ned showing peaking in action on a K-01

mamethot · 10-26-2012, 04:25 PM

Today, I am a very satisfied Pentax customer.

I am happy I did not jump ship a while ago and I really feel that I own gear with good features for the money+good support. I also have the feeling that the company selling me that gear actually cares and wants me to continue to be their client.

I saw that firmware updates were posted for K-01 and K-30 as well. About a year after Ricoh has owned the company, I think that we can now feel their involvement. I am not sure of what the future holds, but I think that the best is yet to come... :-)

Shawn67 · 10-26-2012, 04:52 PM

Another change for v1.11 when adjusting the Custom Image settings it looks like there is a new bug in there. You can no longer adjust Sharpness and Fine Sharpness independently. When you change one the other changes to match automatically.

Shawn

VisualDarkness · 10-26-2012, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by snostorm

Hi VisualDarkness,

Take a look at the Metz 24 AF-1. It's P-TTL only, but is very small and light, and the reflector tilts up to 90°. At $90 USD, it doesn't break the bank, only uses 2 AAAs, is relatively low power, but with good high ISO, we don't need as much power as we did with slow film. It allows you to take a flash just about all the time, and unless you like to do fancy bouncing off of side walls and from behind you, this can be a very useful flash for your DSLR also.

Metz mecablitz 24AF-1 Digital Flash for Pentax Camera MZ 24317PS

The one drawback for some is that it's P-TTL only.

Scott

I won't get one at the moment at least but maybe in the future. I find the built in flash with the nice long arm to work pretty decent for many shots.

snostorm · 10-26-2012, 07:22 PM

Originally posted by Shawn67

"The Q allows SR to be activated on the half shutter or all the time as the user chooses."

Option 1 allows SR to be activated when it is firing the shutter, not on half a shutter press. I just double checked and it is definitely not on during half shutter press. Option 2 is on all the time which is a waste of battery.

Hi Shawn,

You could be right. What I had observed wass that when in Option 1, the white SR indicator on the LCD turns green when I half press, and from experience, I know that with the DSLRs, this indicates that SR is spun up and active. With the Kx and K-5, it was sometimes possible to gain focus lock and trip the shutter before SR was spun up, and the exif indicated that SR was not active for that shot, which usually would show more than normal camera shake. Assuming that with the smaller sensor, complete activation takes less time, it's possible that this is virtually instantaneous, but I had thought that it would be reasonable to start activation before the shutter actually trips.

Then again, when my Q is set to option 2, there is a constant keening sound when I move the camera, and with Option 1, the sound starts with the shutter trip. I'd say that there's more chance that you are correct, but it's really a small difference in actual operation.

Scott

Shawn67 · 10-26-2012, 08:45 PM

Scott,

"I'd say that there's more chance that you are correct, but it's really a small difference in actual operation."

When using AF lenses I would agree it is a small difference in actual operation. When trying to shoot with a legacy lens (esp. with a macro or telephoto) having SR active with the half shutter would make MF much easier compared to only activating with the shutter release. It makes a huge difference on the OMD for example. It would also avoid the battery drain of having SR active all the time.

Shawn

10-26-2012, 03:40 PM	#70
emergo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coloroado Photos: Gallery Posts: 271	Originally posted by crewl1 Turn it on via the menu for camera, page 1, Focus Settings Move the focus ring on the lens and look for the bright highlights to appear on the edge of the item you want to focus on. here's an awesome little video from Ned showing peaking in action on a K-01 Vimeo

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10-26-2012, 09:15 AM	#61
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Originally posted by Aegon I'm having trouble using an external manual (non-pttl) flash on adapted lenses, even with the slow 1/13 sync speed. Is this just me? I feel like Q+Flash is a guessing game even under the best circumstances. Sometimes 1/2000, sometimes 1/250, sometimes 1/13, sometimes impossible. Hi Aegon, Here's what I know about the Q with flash. . .and I could be wrong about some or all. . . Non dedicated external flash will only fire with Q system lenses and flash menu turned to "flash off". They will not be triggered with adapted lenses, even with the FW update. P-TTL external flash seems to work pretty consistently so far with adapted lenses. I've been using a Metz 24 AF1. The camera meters, but the best way to get consistent results is to use a fixed ISO. When in auto ISO, the camera tends to set up shutter speed and or ISO for a non flash exposure, so Av priority with a fixed ISO seems to be the best way for me to go -- use Ev comp to fine adjust the exposure. This seems counterintuitive since P-TTL in the DSLRs requires communication between the lens and the body, but I guess it just meters with the preflash and controls the flash output and duration to get close. The popup flash seems to be not as consistent -- I get one or two shots that fire the flash, then one or two where the flash fails to fire. Before the update, both popup and external P-TTL flashes would only fire intermittently, and only when the flash menu was set to redeye reduction or slow sync. Now external P-TTL flashes seem to fire consistently with the flash menu set to "flash on". The popup flash will sync with Q system AF lenses up to 1/2000, but external flashes will only sync to 1/250. I believe that the limitation is in the external flash guns. With adapted lenses the camera defaults to the electronic shutter, and because CMOS sensors clear, expose, and then dump in sequential rows, 1/13 of a sec is needed to get a full frame exposure with flash. This is why the Pentax K to Q adapter is worth the money IMO. With the integral shutter, we should get sync up to 1/1000 (the limit of the adapter shutter) with the popup, and hopefully up to 1/250 with adapted lenses. With P-TTL external flash firing consistently, and the Pentax adapter, I can do what I need to do for the most part (outdoor macro), so I won't raise the roof about this. . . This is the only area where I'm disappointed with the FW update. I've always held that Pentax should make the Q as external flash compatible as any of the DSLRs, and it's pretty far from any industry standard as is. I've written and called Pentax Imaging USA concerning this, and have been told that my complaints have been forwarded to Japan. If others will do the same, maybe we can get some action concerning this. . .might as well ask for remote TTL with the popup as Master or Controller as well. . . Scott

10-26-2012, 10:43 AM	#62
Aegon Site Supporter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 1,416	Thanks Scott. For some reason I mistakenly thought that I could use a manual flash with adapted lenses (that is, without the new K-Q adapter with built-in shutter) prior to the latest firmware, so I mistakenly thought the new firmware disabled that. But as you point out, the old firmware apparently never allowed this anyway. Maybe I should get a small P-TTL flash. Or maybe just get the Pentax K-Q adapter. But I think instead I'll use Optical Slave Mode and use the built-in flash to trigger the slave.

10-26-2012, 10:53 AM	#63
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	My Q looks and feel absurd with my Sigma EF530 on it so yeah, a small flash would be better.

10-26-2012, 11:01 AM - 1 Like	#64
GXRUser Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Posts: 165	Originally posted by panoguy If this was the "old" Pentax (no new features in firmware updates), a new camera might have been required! Great to hear that Ricoh/Pentax is much more responsive to existing users, and is keeping the Q format going! (Still gonna get that Q10. I want silver!) I wanted a black Q10... Now all have to do is to update the Q!

10-26-2012, 12:46 PM	#65
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Originally posted by VisualDarkness My Q looks and feel absurd with my Sigma EF530 on it so yeah, a small flash would be better. Hi VisualDarkness, Take a look at the Metz 24 AF-1. It's P-TTL only, but is very small and light, and the reflector tilts up to 90°. At $90 USD, it doesn't break the bank, only uses 2 AAAs, is relatively low power, but with good high ISO, we don't need as much power as we did with slow film. It allows you to take a flash just about all the time, and unless you like to do fancy bouncing off of side walls and from behind you, this can be a very useful flash for your DSLR also. Metz mecablitz 24AF-1 Digital Flash for Pentax Camera MZ 24317PS The one drawback for some is that it's P-TTL only. Scott

10-26-2012, 01:40 PM	#66
ve2vfd Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Montreal, Canada Photos: Gallery Posts: 2,433	Originally posted by VisualDarkness My Q looks and feel absurd with my Sigma EF530 on it LOL! Yeah I know the feeling... even my AF360 (which is not a huge flash) is larger than my Q so it looks kinda silly an is very unwieldy and unbalanced. I've been thinking of ordering an off camera cable for it though, that could be interesting! Pat

10-26-2012, 02:11 PM	#67
Shawn67 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 156	Having SR for my big glass is a very nice upgrade. Now for v 1.11 Pentax should take a couple of features from the OMD for use with adapted lenses... 1) Allow SR to be activated on half shutter press. The current option of having it active all the time seems like a waste of battery power. 2) Increase the available focus assist magnification 3) All the focus assist magnification to stay active with half a shutter press (so it can work with #1) Shawn

10-26-2012, 02:18 PM	#68
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Originally posted by Shawn67 Having SR for my big glass is a very nice upgrade. Now for v 1.11 Pentax should take a couple of features from the OMD for use with adapted lenses... 1) Allow SR to be activated on half shutter press. The current option of having it active all the time seems like a waste of battery power. 2) Increase the available focus assist magnification 3) All the focus assist magnification to stay active with half a shutter press (so it can work with #1) Hi Shawn, The Q allows SR to be activated on the half shutter or all the time as the user chooses. Having it on all the time does help one to stay on target if handholding, but it eats batteries like crazy, and battery longevity has never been an advantage for the Q. Good thing they're cheap and small. . . Although I agree with your last two points, I don't find either a high priority for me. The Peaking works pretty well for me though it is subtle if there's low contast. Scott

10-26-2012, 02:54 PM	#69
Shawn67 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 156	"The Q allows SR to be activated on the half shutter or all the time as the user chooses." Option 1 allows SR to be activated when it is firing the shutter, not on half a shutter press. I just double checked and it is definitely not on during half shutter press. Option 2 is on all the time which is a waste of battery. Shawn

10-26-2012, 04:25 PM	#71
mamethot Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: Greater Montreal Area Posts: 736	Today, I am a very satisfied Pentax customer. I am happy I did not jump ship a while ago and I really feel that I own gear with good features for the money+good support. I also have the feeling that the company selling me that gear actually cares and wants me to continue to be their client. I saw that firmware updates were posted for K-01 and K-30 as well. About a year after Ricoh has owned the company, I think that we can now feel their involvement. I am not sure of what the future holds, but I think that the best is yet to come... :-)

10-26-2012, 04:52 PM	#72
Shawn67 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 156	Another change for v1.11 when adjusting the Custom Image settings it looks like there is a new bug in there. You can no longer adjust Sharpness and Fine Sharpness independently. When you change one the other changes to match automatically. Shawn

10-26-2012, 05:38 PM	#73
VisualDarkness Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Uppsala, Sweden Photos: Gallery Posts: 4,439	Originally posted by snostorm Hi VisualDarkness, Take a look at the Metz 24 AF-1. It's P-TTL only, but is very small and light, and the reflector tilts up to 90°. At $90 USD, it doesn't break the bank, only uses 2 AAAs, is relatively low power, but with good high ISO, we don't need as much power as we did with slow film. It allows you to take a flash just about all the time, and unless you like to do fancy bouncing off of side walls and from behind you, this can be a very useful flash for your DSLR also. Metz mecablitz 24AF-1 Digital Flash for Pentax Camera MZ 24317PS The one drawback for some is that it's P-TTL only. Scott I won't get one at the moment at least but maybe in the future. I find the built in flash with the nice long arm to work pretty decent for many shots.

10-26-2012, 07:22 PM	#74
snostorm Veteran Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Chicago suburb, IL, USA Posts: 1,535	Originally posted by Shawn67 "The Q allows SR to be activated on the half shutter or all the time as the user chooses." Option 1 allows SR to be activated when it is firing the shutter, not on half a shutter press. I just double checked and it is definitely not on during half shutter press. Option 2 is on all the time which is a waste of battery. Hi Shawn, You could be right. What I had observed wass that when in Option 1, the white SR indicator on the LCD turns green when I half press, and from experience, I know that with the DSLRs, this indicates that SR is spun up and active. With the Kx and K-5, it was sometimes possible to gain focus lock and trip the shutter before SR was spun up, and the exif indicated that SR was not active for that shot, which usually would show more than normal camera shake. Assuming that with the smaller sensor, complete activation takes less time, it's possible that this is virtually instantaneous, but I had thought that it would be reasonable to start activation before the shutter actually trips. Then again, when my Q is set to option 2, there is a constant keening sound when I move the camera, and with Option 1, the sound starts with the shutter trip. I'd say that there's more chance that you are correct, but it's really a small difference in actual operation. Scott

10-26-2012, 08:45 PM	#75
Shawn67 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 156	Scott, "I'd say that there's more chance that you are correct, but it's really a small difference in actual operation." When using AF lenses I would agree it is a small difference in actual operation. When trying to shoot with a legacy lens (esp. with a macro or telephoto) having SR active with the half shutter would make MF much easier compared to only activating with the shutter release. It makes a huge difference on the OMD for example. It would also avoid the battery drain of having SR active all the time. Shawn