Forgot Password
Pentax Camera Forums Home
 

Reply
Show Printable Version Search this Thread
11-19-2012, 02:09 PM   #1
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 186
28mm showdown commences: Q vs GRD vs XPro vs DP1M

Since I'm a confirmed 28mm hoarder, and my new Q 02 zoom has proven quite a bit better than my first copy of that lens, I started a series of 28mm showdowns. Eventually, I'll add film into the mix, as I'm really curious as to how well the Q stacks up--my feeling is pretty darn well.

The first installment is here; if anyone is interested in any particular tests, let me know and I will try to accommodate. These aren't scientific method tests--I'm nowhere near that thorough. Mostly for fun and information.

To give a quick teaser: the Q competes VERY well with the Ricoh GRD IV at base ISO and pulls ahead at ISO 800. At 800 the Q is even catching up with the DP1M; or shall I say the DP1M is faltering

http://ndjedinak.blogspot.com/2012/11/28mm-challenge-part-i-pentax-q-ricoh.htmlHope you enjoy!

11-19-2012, 05:36 PM   #2
Pentaxian
panoguy's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Washington, D.C.
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 3,281
Thanks for the nice comparison, but did you have to include the X-Pro 1?

The GRD IV looks pretty good for a smaller sensor (but bigger than the Q), however that DP1M sure has problems with accurate color balance, huh?

Last edited by panoguy; 11-19-2012 at 06:08 PM.
11-20-2012, 08:54 AM   #3
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 186
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by panoguy Quote
Thanks for the nice comparison, but did you have to include the X-Pro 1?

The GRD IV looks pretty good for a smaller sensor (but bigger than the Q), however that DP1M sure has problems with accurate color balance, huh?
X-Pro is an interesting camera--it confounds and overjoys me, in equal measure. You can read more on my blog. One thing is certain--it is unique!

The Sigma doesn't struggle with WB any more than the Q, I think; I set a custom WB for the Q and its always a little too red/cool at high ISO. The Ricoh nails it more often than not! X-Pro is fairly good there, also, but the Ricoh is closest to natural.

It is certain the Sigma starts to struggle with colors at ISO 800, though. That's the limit, I think. Here's and ISO 200 shot:



And an ISO800 shot taken a few minutes later:



Surely, I can do better once I learn the Sigma RAW tool, but you can see it starting to falter. The Q definitely holds up better at high ISO, I'll try to post 1600 and 3200 tonight which will show that well.

I find the sigma very much like carrying 2 films: color slide film up to ISO 800 (it even behaves similarly) and B&W 1000-3200. If you think of it in that way, it works quite well.
11-20-2012, 12:56 PM   #4
JHD
Veteran Member




Join Date: Jan 2010
Photos: Albums
Posts: 1,407
To my eyes the Sigma kicks the crap out of the Fuji. With the exception of the 645, what the Sigma does at its base ISO makes everything else look like a P&S. Too bad most people are more interested what a camera can do at higher ISOs.

11-20-2012, 02:25 PM   #5
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 186
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by JHD Quote
To my eyes the Sigma kicks the crap out of the Fuji. With the exception of the 645, what the Sigma does at its base ISO makes everything else look like a P&S. Too bad most people are more interested what a camera can do at higher ISOs.
Absolutely, at base ISO, with respect to detail and sharpness... The sigma kicks the crap out of the Fuji. Color and lens rendering are in the eye of the beholder--I think both systems have strengths that are somewhat different.

I personally am floored by the Sigma and look forward to getting to know it.
11-20-2012, 04:57 PM   #6
Veteran Member
wanderography's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Hayward, California, USA
Posts: 567
The quality and colors you get out of the little sigmas are utterly insane at low ISO. I really want to get the sigma DP2M but cant justify the purchase right now, but for it's price it can't be beat, close to medium format quality at low ISO and the reviews say the prints are fantastic.
11-23-2012, 06:45 PM   #7
Veteran Member
NickLarsson's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Paris, France
Photos: Gallery | Albums
Posts: 1,390
Interesting comparison, thanks!

The outstanding resolution of the DP1 makes it really tempting for sure
11-23-2012, 09:21 PM   #8
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: midwest, United States
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,225
Great comparison. The Sigmas rock. Got to play with a friends DP1M for about 5 min at work. Zowie.The real majic is shooting Raw. Jpeg engine is pretty second rate compared to Raw. Telling myself I don't need one of these. May be losing the battle. Trying to convince myself a K5IIS would be the same or better quality.
thanks
barondla

11-23-2012, 10:24 PM - 1 Like   #9
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 186
Original Poster
No way will the K5IIs be the same in ultimate resolution; it won't even be close. Here's a quick comparo I ran vs the new Sony RX1 full frame monster:



I think you can take it to the bank that the Sony will have more resolution than the K5IIs, and the Sigma has more than that. Really, the Sigma is far and above anything I've ever seen out of digital--it's even better than I have personally been able to get out of MF film. That said, its really quite a lot like film, and you have to be prepared for some struggles to get that magic. Reichmann over at Luminous Landscape said the Sigma's weren't for p@ssys, and he wasn't kidding. I'll have an article written shortly about how the Sigma defeated me over the thanksgiving holiday

Back to the 28mm comparison... Here's Part II, with ISO 1600 and 3200 comparisons. A quick teaser: the Q bests the "large sensor" Sigma!
28mm Comparison, Part II

I remain impressed and pleased by the Q. I intended to add a dog shot to the mix today, but unfortunately my "subject" moved and ruined the shot for the Sigma. I did get a close comparo of the Q vs GRD IV:



In retrospect, I should have set a custom WB for the GRD as I did for the Q. Notwithstanding the poor testing protocol (haha!), I find the Q to better the GRD in ultimate resolution, which is pretty impressive considering I'm using a "kit" style zoom on the Q vs the GRD's prime. The GRD isn't bad, by any stretch, and does appear to have better local contrast; but the Q just nets a little more detail, as it should for 20% more resolution (but isn't guaranteed because of the sensor size difference!).

I think Pentax made the right decision to stick with the 1/2.3" sensor size. It's clear this one is a few generations ahead of the GRD's aging CCD. And even though the GRD is optimized with a very thin AA filter, well-developed processing, and has a larger sensor, the Q is a little better, all around. Pretty impressive! The GRD does have some real strengths, though, and is a completely enjoyable camera to use. So they both win, in my book
11-24-2012, 06:20 AM   #10
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: midwest, United States
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,225
Thanks ndjedinak. You are killing me! Lol. Isn't this sensor the same as the one in their DSLR? Don't seem to hear much about it. Problem with Sigma compact is deciding which one, normal or wide. Need another camera like I need....arrrggghh. Would be fun to go shooting with my FF landscape buddy and only take the Sigma. So tired hearing about how FF is the only thing worth shooting. Looks like the Sigma coud handle the Nik 24mp. Sigma didn't seem so tough to use. Though it wasn't a Q.

Pentax did pick the right sensor with the Q. Was afraid the arm chair pixel peepers were going to kill it in the beginning. The future is only gonna get better.
thanks
barondla
11-24-2012, 06:37 AM   #11
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 186
Original Poster
QuoteOriginally posted by barondla Quote
Thanks ndjedinak. You are killing me! Lol. Isn't this sensor the same as the one in their DSLR? Don't seem to hear much about it. Problem with Sigma compact is deciding which one, normal or wide. Need another camera like I need....arrrggghh. Would be fun to go shooting with my FF landscape buddy and only take the Sigma. So tired hearing about how FF is the only thing worth shooting. Looks like the Sigma coud handle the Nik 24mp. Sigma didn't seem so tough to use. Though it wasn't a Q.

Pentax did pick the right sensor with the Q. Was afraid the arm chair pixel peepers were going to kill it in the beginning. The future is only gonna get better.
thanks
barondla
Yes, this is the same sensor used in the (originally) $7k DSLR. That camera is down to sub-2k. Sigma knew they had something special on their hands, as the sensor competes quite well with medium format. But, of course, the rest of their ecosystem doesn't, so the market spoke and the price came down.

Truthfully, I think the DP series is their zenith. Sigma can make very fine lenses if they want, and they have done so with the DP series from the start. It's pretty freeing to design a lens for one specific sensor that will never come off a body--see the Fuji X100 and Sony RX1 for other examples.

I have no doubt the Sigma Merrill's will out resolve the Nikon D600. They can out resolve the D800E in certain circumstances (too complex to predict for me right now, it depends upon the color of the light and other factors); one things for sure, they "compete" with the best of what FF has to offer in terms of resolution (D800E) and compete quite well with medium format. To get DP1/2 results out of a D800E you need the best Nikon glass; the Sigma already comes with the best glass, and at $1k vs $4.5k is pretty astonishing!

But, they are very narrow tools. Don't go inside with your friend as the Sigma really falls down as I've shown above. Also--the Foveon is a very different beast... It renders significantly differently from any other sensor on the market. I still shoot a fair amount of film, and its more like film than anything digital, IMO. It has a certain "feel" you will either like, or not.

If you'd like a full-resolution file to chew on, PM me your email address and I'll send one over. I promise your jaw will drop
11-24-2012, 03:42 PM   #12
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 186
Original Poster
Barondla, here's my second installment in my DP1 Merrill Review, titled "The Pain of Slide Film aka the Sigma DP1 Merrill

Enjoy!
11-24-2012, 10:11 PM   #13
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: midwest, United States
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,225
I have been a bad person. My DP1M is on the way. Hope I didn't screw up by not getting the 2 instead. Way I look at it the Sigma has the chance to do size wise to FF and medium format what the Q does vs small DSLRs. Just couldn't get the Sigma shots on the desktop out of my mind.

Ndjedinak, will read your blogs this weekend. I am hoping the Sigma gets close to what my Pentax 6X7 can do with slide film.
thanks
barondla
11-25-2012, 06:03 AM   #14
Senior Member




Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 186
Original Poster
Re: the DP1M performing like the Pentax 67... It can! It will! You will be thrilled.

By all accounts the 45mm on the DP2M is the "better" of the two lenses, but surely this is apples to oranges. The 28mm on the DP1M is at least the equal of anything I've used in 28, and better than most. I have zero qualms about this lens other than flare, as it is quite flare-y and not in a pleasant way, with a green tinge common across the frame:



You can see that also here on the right; green bokeh balls:



But you can also get the sensor to flare in a spectacular way, as the Q:



When you want edge to edge sharpness, through, this lens will deliver, and the distortion is quite low (no correction applied here):



I have a DP2M on the way. It will go under the Christmas tree, so I won't be able to report until next year... But in the meantime, know that you can crop your 1 and still get fab quality... This was about a 38mm effective crop:



It's a great lens!
07-07-2013, 07:01 PM   #15
Site Supporter




Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: midwest, United States
Photos: Gallery
Posts: 3,225
Ndjedinak, did you ever update the DP2Merrill post? Just wondering what you found. Haven't seen any Q posts lately either. Hope all is well.
thanks
barondla
Loving the Q and Sigma DP1Merrill.
Reply

Bookmarks
  • Submit Thread to Facebook Facebook
  • Submit Thread to Twitter Twitter
  • Submit Thread to Digg Digg
Tags - Make this thread easier to find by adding keywords to it!
28mm, camera, grd, iso, mirrorless, pentax q, pentax q10, pentax q7, q10, q7, vs
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Camera comparison: One X vs Galaxy S II vs Nexus vs N8 vs iPhone 4S jogiba Non-Pentax Cameras: Canon, Nikon, etc. 3 04-12-2012 07:41 AM
Sigma 28mm 1.8 vs F 28mm 2.8 vs DA 35 limited wich is suited for me nirVaan Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 13 03-05-2012 05:21 AM
30 vs 43 vs 55 vs 77 Christmas Bokeh Shoot-out Special! TOUGEFC Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 51 12-16-2011 04:56 PM
K-r vs D3100 vs EOS1100D - Digitalversus Showdown siva.ss.kumar Pentax K-r 4 09-07-2011 12:54 PM
77ltd vs Cosina 55 1.2 vs Helios 58 vs Vivitar 28 CF vs DA 35 jsherman999 Pentax SLR Lens Discussion 18 04-26-2009 12:32 PM



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 07:42 PM. | See also: NikonForums.com, part of our network of photo forums!
  • Red (Default)
  • Green
  • Gray
  • Dark
  • Dark Yellow
  • Dark Blue
  • Old Red
  • Old Green
  • Old Gray
  • Dial-Up Style
Hello! It's great to see you back on the forum! Have you considered joining the community?
register
Creating a FREE ACCOUNT takes under a minute, removes ads, and lets you post! [Dismiss]
Top