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01-09-2013, 10:17 AM   #1
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Q lenses ND filter - what's it's value?

I'm wondering if anyone knows or has determined what the value (in image reduction or stops) is. The 01 and 02 lenses apparently have built in ND filters (that is my understanding now as there had been some confusion as to whether this was done electronically or otherwise). The 06 lens may too but I don't know about that. Anyway, from the few tests I've done, the built in ND filters seem fairly mild like a stop or two. But I'm hoping someone has harder data than my guess work.

Thoughts?

01-09-2013, 10:24 AM - 1 Like   #2
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QuoteOriginally posted by blackcloudbrew Quote
I'm wondering if anyone knows or has determined what the value (in image reduction or stops) is. The 01 and 02 lenses apparently have built in ND filters (that is my understanding now as there had been some confusion as to whether this was done electronically or otherwise). The 06 lens may too but I don't know about that. Anyway, from the few tests I've done, the built in ND filters seem fairly mild like a stop or two. But I'm hoping someone has harder data than my guess work.

Thoughts?
The ND filter does appear to be built into the lens and is not a software driven feature: https://www.pentaxforums.com/forums/pentax-q/206667-black-spot-inside-02-zoom.html

I believe that the ND filter is also built into the 06 lens, as this is one of the features that separates the regular lenses from the "toy" lenses (including AF, and metal vs plastic mount).

The manual (in the specs at the end) indicate that the ND filter is good for 2 stops. Better 2 than nothing
01-09-2013, 10:40 AM   #3
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Oh, 2 stops. I searched the manual for that info and came up with nothing on it. Thanks very much that was exactly what I was looking for. I also read the thread you posted as well. Ok, got it.
01-09-2013, 10:52 AM   #4
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Its kind of hidden. Page 238 indicates that the metering range is "+2 EV using the ND filter" indicating a 2-stop benefit for the filter. Ive found this to be the case in actual use too.

Its nice that Pentax added the ND filter to the non-toy lenses. I suspect though that it was done simply to add more flexibility to exposure control (since f-stop control becomes futile after f/5.6 due to diffraction) than anything else.

01-09-2013, 11:09 AM   #5
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxScott Quote
Its kind of hidden. Page 238 indicates that the metering range is "+2 EV using the ND filter" indicating a 2-stop benefit for the filter. Ive found this to be the case in actual use too.

Its nice that Pentax added the ND filter to the non-toy lenses. I suspect though that it was done simply to add more flexibility to exposure control (since f-stop control becomes futile after f/5.6 due to diffraction) than anything else.
I believe it was included because of the limited use of aperture as you post, plus the fact that the max leaf shutter speed is only 1/2000.

If you prefer to use the leaf shutter only, and not enable the electronic shutter to take over at 1/2000 to give you additional shutter speeds up to 1/8000, then the Q becomes significantly handicapped for use outdoors in bright sunlight. The added 2 stops, allows essentially the same exposure latitude as enabling the electronic shutter using wider apertures in these conditions.

Personally, I don't have much problem with using the electronic shutter at high shutter speeds, but do have a problem with remembering to disable the ND filter when I go back inside, so my Q's internal ND filter has not been used much.

Scott
01-09-2013, 05:03 PM   #6
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so what setting do you usually use the nd filter? A , M ? does it matter ? [ and you know, i seem to get decent bokeh or blurring of background too, out of the 01 lens most times , even at f 4 or so, it's not fa31 bokeh, but it's there. ( maybe this is a totally different aspect than having to do with the nd filter though ) ]
01-09-2013, 05:35 PM   #7
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QuoteOriginally posted by dh4412 Quote
so what setting do you usually use the nd filter? A , M ? does it matter ? [ and you know, i seem to get decent bokeh or blurring of background too, out of the 01 lens most times , even at f 4 or so, it's not fa31 bokeh, but it's there. ( maybe this is a totally different aspect than having to do with the nd filter though ) ]
Hi dh4412,

Just use the camera as you normally would. The camera meters through the filter, so there's really no effect on technique. The effect is essentially equal to using 2 stops lower ISO -- for the Q, that would be about ISO 32.

Scott
01-11-2013, 10:02 AM   #8
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An ND (neutral density) filter is built into the shutter unit of the high-performance-series standard lenses to reduce the amount of light without effecting overall color rendition of an image. This filter comes in handy when you want to use slower shutter speeds under bright sunshine. It can be applied or removed with simple switching operation on the camera body.PENTAX Q|PENTAX RICOH IMAGING

Stan, Stormtech, found a larger image of the Q shutter assembly and kindly forwarded to me for inclusion here.

Attached Images
 

Last edited by Docrwm; 01-11-2013 at 03:07 PM.
01-11-2013, 10:17 AM   #9
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
An ND (neutral density) filter is built into the shutter unit of the high-performance-series standard lenses to reduce the amount of light without effecting overall color rendition of an image. This filter comes in handy when you want to use slower shutter speeds under bright sunshine. It can be applied or removed with simple switching operation on the camera body.PENTAX Q|PENTAX RICOH IMAGING
Bingo! Good post and image. Since I love me some landscapes with flowing creeks and waterfalls, this was a welcome addition, even if the benefit is small.
01-11-2013, 10:19 AM   #10
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxScott Quote
Bingo! Good post and image. Since I love me some landscapes with flowing creeks and waterfalls, this was a welcome addition, even if the benefit is small.
Thanks. I was poking about in the Pentax Japan site today and saw this, recalled this thread, and thought I'd add it for reference. I think the Q has a LOT of hidden gems in it that many dismissed out of hand. So far the only part that I don't like about the camera is the low light performance. Batteries I can live with (now that I have 4 extra) and the OVF I added works a treat in saving power. Overall, the ND filters built into the lenses are just another amazing Pentax plus IMHO.
01-11-2013, 10:52 AM   #11
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
An ND (neutral density) filter is built into the shutter unit of the high-performance-series standard lenses to reduce the amount of light without effecting overall color rendition of an image. This filter comes in handy when you want to use slower shutter speeds under bright sunshine. It can be applied or removed with simple switching operation on the camera body.PENTAX Q|PENTAX RICOH IMAGING
I think it's relevant to note that the Multiple Exposure Mode with Ev Comp accomplishes this even more effectively, and most of Pentax DSLRs have had this feature since the K10 IIRC. Using this mode, you can effectively get up to 9 times the normal exposure time with a given light level. Using this feature has become progressively easier from model to model as time has gone by, and is surprisingly effective to get "milky" water in landscape shots, even with direct sunlit scenes without an ND filter. The Q also has this feature.

Scott
01-11-2013, 11:18 AM   #12
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QuoteOriginally posted by snostorm Quote
I think it's relevant to note that the Multiple Exposure Mode with Ev Comp accomplishes this even more effectively, and most of Pentax DSLRs have had this feature since the K10 IIRC. Using this mode, you can effectively get up to 9 times the normal exposure time with a given light level. Using this feature has become progressively easier from model to model as time has gone by, and is surprisingly effective to get "milky" water in landscape shots, even with direct sunlit scenes without an ND filter. The Q also has this feature.

Scott
Excellent point. Although I still get a good bit of blur when I try more than 3-4 with the Q.
01-11-2013, 01:28 PM   #13
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QuoteOriginally posted by snostorm Quote
I think it's relevant to note that the Multiple Exposure Mode with Ev Comp accomplishes this even more effectively, and most of Pentax DSLRs have had this feature since the K10 IIRC. Using this mode, you can effectively get up to 9 times the normal exposure time with a given light level. Using this feature has become progressively easier from model to model as time has gone by, and is surprisingly effective to get "milky" water in landscape shots, even with direct sunlit scenes without an ND filter. The Q also has this feature.

Scott
Isnt the final result saved as a .JPG image? I usually try to capture images in .DNG format if its a complex image, or I suspect that I may need to do additional editing later. Ill have to give it a look anyhow, as image quality has come a long way since the days of my K10. I rarely if ever used my K10 to record .JPG images because it was challenging enough to do edits of complex raw images (noisy high ISO, dynamic range clipping, etc)
01-11-2013, 01:29 PM   #14
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QuoteOriginally posted by PentaxScott Quote
Isnt the final result saved as a .JPG image? I usually try to capture images in .DNG format if its a complex image, or I suspect that I may need to do additional editing later. Ill have to give it a look anyhow, as image quality has come a long way since the days of my K10. I rarely if ever used my K10 to record .JPG images because it was challenging enough to do edits of complex raw images (noisy high ISO, dynamic range clipping, etc)
I seem to recall, camera is not here at work with me today, that it would only do the 9 exposures when set to JPG and not to RAW or RAW+.
01-11-2013, 01:51 PM   #15
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QuoteOriginally posted by Docrwm Quote
I seem to recall, camera is not here at work with me today, that it would only do the 9 exposures when set to JPG and not to RAW or RAW+.
You are correct for the Q. Multi exposure is only available when the camera is set to jpeg. In the K-5 and K-5IIs, at least, ME is available in the menu when the camera is set to shoot RAW.

Scott
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